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Retrofit of an EMCO 120 CNC lathe
Hello everyone,
I would like to present my retrofitting project of an EMCO 120 CNC lathe with a modern controller and new servos.
The lathe was bought in 2017 and it came from a high school. It was in good condition but the fact that it required three-phase power and had a vintage Emcotronic T1 controller (with the inherent risk of potential problems that could derive from its age) pushed me to take the decision to retrofit it and convert it to single-phase power.
For the axes, I chose to use 750W AC servomotors and drivers from DELTA, model ASD-B2-0721-B, to replace the original 5-pole Berger Lahr stepper motors.
The original spindle motor was a 400V DC motor with 3.5hp. To simplify its connection to the new controller, I decided to replace it with a three-phase motor (2.2kW ABB branded) controlled by a single-phase input VFD (DELTA VFD022E21A).
The choice of the controller was a bit more difficult ... At the beginning I thought to use Mach 3 or Eding CNC but the fact that these systems are PC based didn't convince me. Therefore I decided to take the risk of buying a dedicated Chinese controller on Ebay. My choice fell on a Szghauto "brand" controller (model SZGH-CNC990TDb-2).
Apparently, as with most products coming these days from China, there are many available controllers similar to this one in which only the brand changes (Szghauto, Newkye, Newker,...). From what I understand, they are all "inspired" by vintage Fanuc controllers. For the moment I am quite satisfied with it. The price was competitive when compared to the cost of a license Mach 3 or Eding CNC + computer + screen + cards, etc. The only problem was the documentation. The Chinglish was almost incomprehensible. I wasted a fair number of hours because of it...
I will add the photos next...
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8 Attachment(s)
Re: Retrofit of an EMCO 120 CNC lathe
The original EMCO 120 lathe
Attachment 414498
The Emcotronic T1 controller
Attachment 414500
The original electronics
Attachment 414502
Beginning of the disassembly (original headstock motor removed)
Attachment 414504
Original headstock motor
Attachment 414506
Attachment 414508
Original 5-pole stepper motors
Attachment 414510
Disassembly of the lathe part
Attachment 414512
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8 Attachment(s)
Re: Retrofit of an EMCO 120 CNC lathe
Cleaning the headstock
Attachment 414514
Attachment 414516
Disassembly of the electrical cabinet
Attachment 414518
The new controller (customized by the manufacturer with the EMCO logo :cool:)
Attachment 414520
Attachment 414522
Attachment 414524
The 750W AC servo/driver from DELTA
Attachment 414526
The new headstock motor from ABB
Attachment 414528
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8 Attachment(s)
Re: Retrofit of an EMCO 120 CNC lathe
To mount the new controller in the electrical cabinet, I ordered a 4mm thick laser cut steel sheet and attached it to the existing cabinet front cover
Attachment 414530
Attachment 414532
Attachment 414534
I also took advantage of my order to cut out the mounting plates for the new headstock motor, the servos, the limit switches and a back plate for the electrical cabinet
Attachment 414536
Attachment 414538
Attachment 414540
Attachment 414542
Since the original headstock motor had a maximum speed of 6000 rpm and the new engine only had 2850 rpm, I had to increase the diameter of the driving pulley so as not to lose too much top speed. In the end, I managed to have a maximum spindle speed of 4250 rpm.
Attachment 414544
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Re: Retrofit of an EMCO 120 CNC lathe
Looking forward to seeing how you get on with the controller. I recently bought the CNC1000TDC from SZGHAuto. I have not had a chance to connect it all up yet as I am busy and need the lathe to do parts at the moment.
Hopefully I will get a chance in a month or so.
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Re: Retrofit of an EMCO 120 CNC lathe
Quote:
My choice fell on a Szghauto "brand" controller (model SZGH-CNC990TDb-2).
Quote:
From what I understand, they are all "inspired" by vintage Fanuc controllers.
What cam software you will run with this controller ? I think the postprocessor the same as fanuc ...
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Re: Retrofit of an EMCO 120 CNC lathe
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hood
Looking forward to seeing how you get on with the controller. I recently bought the CNC1000TDC from SZGHAuto. I have not had a chance to connect it all up yet as I am busy and need the lathe to do parts at the moment.
Hopefully I will get a chance in a month or so.
Hi,
It seems to be the same controller with just a different form factor... The installation went quite smoothly. All the cables provided by SZGHAuto were correctly labeled so it was almost plug-n-play. The only "complicated" part was making the turret work with the controller. I had to install an arduino based PLC to convert the turret signals. The painful part was setting the parameters though. The manual they provided was almost incomprehensible and some of the parameters mentioned there didn't seem to apply to my specific model...
Quote:
What cam software you will run with this controller ? I think the postprocessor the same as fanuc ...
I'm using Fusion360 with the standard Fanuc postprocessor. It only required a few minor tweaks to some canned cycles.
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8 Attachment(s)
Re: Retrofit of an EMCO 120 CNC lathe
The follow-up...
I also had to change the headstock encoder. I chose an "omron" with a resolution of 1024 steps/rev (x4). Its support was machined in a small EMCO Compact 5 CNC lathe that I had at the time...
Attachment 414632
Attachment 414634
Beginning of the wiring
Attachment 414636
Attachment 414638
Attachment 414640
Wiring finished
Attachment 414642
Attachment 414644
Attachment 414646
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7 Attachment(s)
Re: Retrofit of an EMCO 120 CNC lathe
Attachment 414648
Attachment 414650
And new vinyl decals (of course :cool:)
Attachment 414652
Attachment 414654
Attachment 414656
And here is the finished lathe on its new custom made bench
Attachment 414658
And doing its job...
Attachment 414660
Overall, I am quite satisfied with the end result. The controller takes standard G code (USB or RS-232) and is quite simple to use. The mechanical part of the lathe does not seem to have much wear neither. The backlash in the ball screws is less than 2um and I can easily work within 0.01mm on mild steel.
The only annoyance I have is the lack of torque at low speed. I may need to reduce the belt pulley ratio and tweak the VFD settings to mitigate this.
I hope someone finds this project useful :wave:
Cheers!
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Re: Retrofit of an EMCO 120 CNC lathe
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mukanico
The only annoyance I have is the lack of torque at low speed. I may need to reduce the belt pulley ratio and tweak the VFD settings to mitigate this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mukanico
Since the original headstock motor had a maximum speed of 6000 rpm and the new engine only had 2850 rpm, I had to increase the diameter of the driving pulley so as not to lose too much top speed. In the end, I managed to have a maximum spindle speed of 4250 rpm.
This is not the best way to achieve the RPM required. Most certainly the motor can easily handle 120Hz, (check the MFG for max RPM it's probably 6kRPM.) By increasing motor pulley diameter you've reduced torque to the spindle. This will be troublesome if you work steel at 2" diameter.
Correct setup would give full motor torque to 60Hz, and as Hz increased to 120, available torque would drop but full HP would be available. As small diameter parts need less torque this is acceptable. This is how most spindle motors are configured. For my Emco I chose an ABB 2.2kW, 4 pole motor and run it to 6000RPM. This essentially matches the original motor exactly.
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Re: Retrofit of an EMCO 120 CNC lathe
Thanks for your input!
Indeed I struggle a bit with the low torque on "larger" steel parts. When I bought the VFD for this project I chose a model with vector control since I read that this type of control would allow for near full torque at low rpm. Unfortunately I don't see much difference with it on or off, hence my assumption that something could be wrongly configured on the VFD. I will try your advice to go back the original pulley ratio and increase the VFD frequency to still maintain the top speed. Do you also have an EMCO 120?
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Re: Retrofit of an EMCO 120 CNC lathe
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mukanico
Hi,
It seems to be the same controller with just a different form factor... The installation went quite smoothly. All the cables provided by SZGHAuto were correctly labeled so it was almost plug-n-play. The only "complicated" part was making the turret work with the controller. I had to install an arduino based PLC to convert the turret signals. The painful part was setting the parameters though. The manual they provided was almost incomprehensible and some of the parameters mentioned there didn't seem to apply to my specific model...
I think the CNC1000 has a faster processor, more memory and more I/O but likely the software is the same.
I have been messing around with the control at home and working out quite a lot of things. I too had issues with the toolchanger, not so much about converting signals but more the macro. The macro itself wasn't too bad if you only wanted to use the 8 tool positions with 8 offsets but as I made a VDI turret for my lathe I wanted to be able to use the full 99 possible offsets. That didn't seem to be an issue at first but then I soon realised that it was messing with the graphic view. I asked SZGH if there was a mod function in ther software but sadly there wasn't and they said basically I would just have to use 8 tool positions and 8 offsets or use the 8 positions with 99 offsets and put up with the graphics display showing incorrectly.
Thankfully however I found a way to basically mimic modulo so now I can do as I presently do with Mach, and call for example T1515 and the turret will go to position 7 but use offset 15 and the graphics will display properly.
You mentioned earlier that they sorted you with the Emco logo screen, did they just send a file or did they load that before you purchased? I was trying to do my own but couldn't seem to manage to overwrite the default one.
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Re: Retrofit of an EMCO 120 CNC lathe
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hood
You mentioned earlier that they sorted you with the Emco logo screen, did they just send a file or did they load that before you purchased? I was trying to do my own but couldn't seem to manage to overwrite the default one.
Hi,
I sent them the image file before they shipped the controller and they loaded it. However, recently I also bought from them a milling controller (SZGH?CNC1500MDb?4) for another retrofit I did (I may do a post about it in the future) but forgot to ask for the logo screen. They sent me the instructions to do it myself. I have added them below as they might be applicable to your controller.
Quote:
How to change logo?
1.Prepare a logo picture
(Format:BMP , Dimension: 800*600)to exchange original logo picture in U-Disk, or (The Best Way)modify in the logo picture on computer.ensure the dimension and format unchanged.
2.Change No.1 parameter to disable in Password ,and change No.12 parameter(inner parameter ) in Other parameter to 8. (steps:Press”Parameter” ,Press “F7”,enter”Passed” ,No.1,”Is enable CNC Co.’s password? “,press “Enter” ,express”Please input CNC Co.’s password ,the password is “111111”, ”input “1” mean “not”(is disable); And Press “F5”-Other,enter other parameter ,change the No.12 inner parameter to 8)
3.Restore the parameter(logo picture) into system.
(Steps:insert U-disk,press “F6”,enter U-disk,press “F2”-Restore ,input parameter,”Please input Machine Co.’s password:666666,press “Enter”,express “Are you sure to input PLC,soft,parameter to CNC?”,Press “Enter”,Input successful ,Please reboot CNC! ,press enter,press “F6”to exit U-disk.)
4.Reboot CNC ,the logo change is finished.
5.After reboot, set No.12 parameter in Other parameter to 7.And set No.1 parameter in Password parameter to Enable.
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Re: Retrofit of an EMCO 120 CNC lathe
Thanks, I was missing the 666666 password bit, I knew the 111111 one. Will give it a go when I get a chance.
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: Retrofit of an EMCO 120 CNC lathe
Looks like I am about to embark on my journey to fit the SZGH control. Yesterday I was trying to use the lathe and it was doing lots of weird things, wouldn't jog so restarted then wouldn't home so restarted, spindle wouldn't turn on so restarted etc etc.
I started pulling the control panel and electrical panel to bits, some I will reuse such as PLC, Servo drives and relays but most will not be used.
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Re: Retrofit of an EMCO 120 CNC lathe
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hood
Looks like I am about to embark on my journey to fit the SZGH control. Yesterday I was trying to use the lathe and it was doing lots of weird things, wouldn't jog so restarted then wouldn't home so restarted, spindle wouldn't turn on so restarted etc etc.
I started pulling the control panel and electrical panel to bits, some I will reuse such as PLC, Servo drives and relays but most will not be used.
This stage of a retrofit is always a scary sight.... Good luck with it!
What lathe is it?
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: Retrofit of an EMCO 120 CNC lathe
Ha ha it is not too bad as I have done quite a few and the lathe itself was my third retrofit and has had a few enhancements over the time I have had it.
It is a Churchill Computurn 290 that I bought about 2006 and fitted Mach3 to it, originally via the parallel port then the USB Smoothstepper and latterly the Ethernet Smoothstepper.
I have known the control was dying for quite a while so have been planning the refit although I was torn between the SZGH and a CSMIO/IP-A (I have that on the Chiron FZ12S and love it) but the CS-Lab new software is not lathe compatible yet and Mach 3 and CSMIO has some niggles for lathe and Mach4 is a non-starter for me so it came down to my only real choice was the SZGH.
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Re: Retrofit of an EMCO 120 CNC lathe
Nice!
I never used Mach 3 or the other PC based controllers so I can't do a direct comparison. But both SZGH controllers I have (lathe and mill) have been performing flawlessly so far and, price-wise, I didn't find them much more expensive than the hardware required to do a proper PC based retrofit from scratch. It just takes a while to get use to some of the chinese translation choices ("redeem" meaning tool library, etc.).
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Re: Retrofit of an EMCO 120 CNC lathe
I have never really had issues with Mach3 and it runs my Chiron, Beaver Mill and Plasma very well indeed. The lathe side of Mach3 works pretty well but there are a few things it does not do, one is CSS and although threading can be an issue for some it has never been an issue for me. I could have gone down the route of just getting another Smoothstepper or even going back to the USB version as I have a few here, but I wanted to go more industrial and thus CSMIO or SZGH were the choices.
Price wise the CSMIO itself would be about the same as the SZGH but then again if the SZGH goes up the spout then you have a complete control to get where if the computer goes on a PC based system then a motherboard or hard drive is cheap enough.
The downside I see to the SZGH is the configurability , it does seem quite configurable but no where near as much as Mach is and one thing I will miss is the network ability, I will take bad having to transfer files via USB but that is not the end of the world if it performs as well as I hope it will. My friend is currently converting an Avon mill to an Adtech and I think that has network ability but as he doesn't transfer files via network I suppose I won't really know how well it works but it will be interesting to see how the Adtech performs.
Yes, the terms are quite funny, Redeem as you mention but the couple that make me chuckle is something like Curry tool is ...... when it should be current tool and also the Huff button which I take to be Air blast.
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Re: Retrofit of an EMCO 120 CNC lathe
Having to transfer the files over a USB stick can indeed be a bit annoying after a while. I read that one could configure a Raspberry Pi Zero W to act as a network connected USB drive. I'm planning on giving it a try sometime soon.
https://www.raspberrypi.org/magpi/pi...b-flash-drive/
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Re: Retrofit of an EMCO 120 CNC lathe
Yes I had seen that as well. I had been looking at the Sandisk wifi stick but seems you can only transfer via wifi when it is not connected but during my searching I did see the Pi info.
I tried via serial but there is no advantage to it and infact it is worse as you need to send from the PC then go to the SZGH and type in the file name you wish to transfer so USB is much easier.
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: Retrofit of an EMCO 120 CNC lathe
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Diesel_Pilot
This is not the best way to achieve the RPM required. Most certainly the motor can easily handle 120Hz, (check the MFG for max RPM it's probably 6kRPM.) By increasing motor pulley diameter you've reduced torque to the spindle. This will be troublesome if you work steel at 2" diameter.
Correct setup would give full motor torque to 60Hz, and as Hz increased to 120, available torque would drop but full HP would be available. As small diameter parts need less torque this is acceptable. This is how most spindle motors are configured. For my Emco I chose an ABB 2.2kW, 4 pole motor and run it to 6000RPM. This essentially matches the original motor exactly.
Hello,
Quick update to this build: I followed Diesel_Pilot's advice and went back to the original motor pulley. I had to increase the VFD max. frequency to 83Hz to reach the original 4000rpm max. spindle speed but the additional low end torque is quite useful. Thanks!
Attachment 415122
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Re: Retrofit of an EMCO 120 CNC lathe
Hi, Are you using the original tool turret and its 24volt motor ???? If so, how hard was it to incorporate with the new control ?????
Thanks
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Re: Retrofit of an EMCO 120 CNC lathe
Quote:
Originally Posted by
slowtwitch
Hi, Are you using the original tool turret and its 24volt motor ???? If so, how hard was it to incorporate with the new control ?????
Hi,
Yes, it's all original. I used a Pololu VNH5019 driver for the 24VDC motor driven by PWM signals sent by an Arduino PLC (Controllino Maxi), which manages the forward and reverse currents sent to the motor. The Controllino also decodes the output of the turret photodiodes (pnp) and sends it to the new controller (npn). It was a fairly straightforward job.
There are a few projects documented online that use a similar approach of using an arduino to manage the signals:
https://forum.linuxcnc.org/26-turnin...l?limitstart=0
https://github.com/f1oat/EATC-120
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Re: Retrofit of an EMCO 120 CNC lathe
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mukanico
I had to increase the VFD max. frequency to 83Hz to reach the original 4000rpm max. spindle speed but the additional low end torque is quite useful. Thanks!
That's great. Must have 1:1 pulley ratio? Compact 6 is 80%.
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Re: Retrofit of an EMCO 120 CNC lathe
Hi,
I don't remember what are the pulley diameters, but the new motor is rated at 2845rpm@50Hz, so the pulley ratio should be around 85%.
Cheers
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: Retrofit of an EMCO 120 CNC lathe
Just thought I would chime in again to say the SZGH is running great for me. I miss a few things such as inability to name tools in the tooltable, but I do have the wireless USB working well.
A friend also recently retrofitted a lathe with the same control and he decided to get a Toshiba FlashAir and he got it working so I got one as well :) Now I can access the USB drive from my desktop computer and transfer files both ways over the network.
I removed the door on the control, milled a slot in it and got a right angle adapter and it makes for a neat setup, you can see it top left of this pic.
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: Retrofit of an EMCO 120 CNC lathe
Here is a better pic of it.
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Re: Retrofit of an EMCO 120 CNC lathe
Quote:
How to change logo?
Hi mukanico,
Did you request to factory to set parameter (other than logo) when you order the controller SZGH (like in Fanuc, you need parameter) ? Or you do not need any parameter for this controller ?
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Re: Retrofit of an EMCO 120 CNC lathe
Quote:
Originally Posted by
asuratman
Hi mukanico,
Did you request to factory to set parameter (other than logo) when you order the controller SZGH (like in Fanuc, you need parameter) ? Or you do not need any parameter for this controller ?
Hi,
Sorry for the late reply...
The controller comes preset from the factory with a generic set of parameters that you can edit to suit your machine. They supply you with a manual that goes over the available parameters and how you can configure them. It's reasonably straightforward once you get over the chinese/english translation issues.
But it shouldn't be an problem to get support from the factory to set up the parameters if you need it. The technical support I got from them was better than I expected. I also installed a similar controller on a milling machine and they helped with the setup of the tool changer more than 1 year after I purchased the controller.
Cheers
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Re: Retrofit of an EMCO 120 CNC lathe
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hood
Just thought I would chime in again to say the SZGH is running great for me. I miss a few things such as inability to name tools in the tooltable, but I do have the wireless USB working well.
A friend also recently retrofitted a lathe with the same control and he decided to get a Toshiba FlashAir and he got it working so I got one as well :) Now I can access the USB drive from my desktop computer and transfer files both ways over the network.
I removed the door on the control, milled a slot in it and got a right angle adapter and it makes for a neat setup, you can see it top left of this pic.
Neat installation! It looks like OEM.
Thanks for the tip on the toshiba drive!!! I will definitely give it a try. Going back and forward with the USB stick to the PC gets old very quickly :)
Cheers
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Re: Retrofit of an EMCO 120 CNC lathe
mukanico
I have a friend who has recently bought an SZGH control for his mill and is having trouble setting up tool offsets. I think you said you had one for a mill and was wondering if you had any info on how you set up the tool offsets?
I live 100 miles away so can't easily visit him and trying to help via email is not easy as I can't see what is happening at the control.
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Re: Retrofit of an EMCO 120 CNC lathe
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mukanico
Hello everyone,
I would like to present my retrofitting project of an EMCO 120 CNC lathe with a modern controller and new servos.
The lathe was bought in 2017 and it came from a high school. It was in good condition but the fact that it required three-phase power and had a vintage Emcotronic T1 controller (with the inherent risk of potential problems that could derive from its age) pushed me to take the decision to retrofit it and convert it to single-phase power.
For the axes, I chose to use 750W AC servomotors and drivers from DELTA, model ASD-B2-0721-B, to replace the original 5-pole Berger Lahr stepper motors.
The original spindle motor was a 400V DC motor with 3.5hp. To simplify its connection to the new controller, I decided to replace it with a three-phase motor (2.2kW ABB branded) controlled by a single-phase input VFD (DELTA VFD022E21A).
The choice of the controller was a bit more difficult ... At the beginning I thought to use Mach 3 or Eding CNC but the fact that these systems are PC based didn't convince me. Therefore I decided to take the risk of buying a dedicated Chinese controller on Ebay. My choice fell on a Szghauto "brand" controller (model SZGH-CNC990TDb-2).
Apparently, as with most products coming these days from China, there are many available controllers similar to this one in which only the brand changes (Szghauto, Newkye, Newker,...). From what I understand, they are all "inspired" by vintage Fanuc controllers. For the moment I am quite satisfied with it. The price was competitive when compared to the cost of a license Mach 3 or Eding CNC + computer + screen + cards, etc. The only problem was the documentation. The Chinglish was almost incomprehensible. I wasted a fair number of hours because of it...
I will add the photos next...
You are so true about "they are all "inspired" by vintage Fanuc controllers"
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Re: Retrofit of an EMCO 120 CNC lathe
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hood
mukanico
I have a friend who has recently bought an SZGH control for his mill and is having trouble setting up tool offsets. I think you said you had one for a mill and was wondering if you had any info on how you set up the tool offsets?
I live 100 miles away so can't easily visit him and trying to help via email is not easy as I can't see what is happening at the control.
Hi,
Yes, indeed I also have a SZGH-CNC1500Mdb controller on a mill. I reference all my tools off the mill table. If I'm touching off on a 1-2-3 block or something else I input it's height by pressing the "T" key when in Manual mode (only need to do this once). Then, to set the tool offset I press "Redeem", select the corresponding offset number using the arrow keys and then press "F5-Set Tool"->"Enter". The offset is the automatically calculated based on the current machine Z coordinate and the input touch off height and stored on the table.
If I need to adjust the offset by a small amount, it can be done by using the "length compensation adjust" feature: on the offset table, I select the offset using the arrow keys, then press Enter and input the compensation amount (positive or negative).
There may be other methods but this one works quite well for me.
I hope the explanation isn't clear as mud...
Cheers
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Re: Retrofit of an EMCO 120 CNC lathe
Thanks for the reply, yes that is eventually how we figured out things worked.
It is a bit of a nuisance for him as he has a knee mill so the table height is constantly changing, that is not an issue until he has to set up a new tool or replace a worn one. If he has to do that then he has to do the T bit again and then set up all the other tools as well.
We have decided the best course of action will be to make up a removable and repeatable platform that attaches to the side of the head and can be used to set tools up in the future, hopefully it will work.
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Re: Retrofit of an EMCO 120 CNC lathe
I'm just about to place an order for a SZGH-CNC990TDb-2 controller, I hope install go's as easy as it sounds.
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Re: Retrofit of an EMCO 120 CNC lathe
OK, so I end up buying the SZGH-CNC1000TDb-2 controller. Now I have to install it.
Do I really need to buy and fit linear scales to my lathe? Electronics are not my best subject, my lathe is a Neutron CNC CJK0640 if that help.
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Re: Retrofit of an EMCO 120 CNC lathe
Hi,
Not unless you want to feed the actual position back to the controller. My install was done without feedback and relies only on the servos for getting to the commanded position. You can setup backlash compensation and correct for leadscrew pitch errors in the controller too. That helps to minimize some of the issues with not having positional feedback.
Cheers
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Re: Retrofit of an EMCO 120 CNC lathe
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mukanico
Hi,
Not unless you want to feed the actual position back to the controller. My install was done without feedback and relies only on the servos for getting to the commanded position. You can setup backlash compensation and correct for leadscrew pitch errors in the controller too. That helps to minimize some of the issues with not having positional feedback.
Cheers
Thanks for that. My lathe's current controller doesn't seem to have any linear scales and I was hoping I didn't need them.
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Re: Retrofit of an EMCO 120 CNC lathe
As has been said, scales only if you want. They won't actually get used for closing the loop, they will just provide feedback for out of position monitoring and errors. Does your control support them anyway? I thought the tdc had the feedback option and the tdb didn't.