Blackfoot 4x8 plywood made CNC router .. $1000 used..... opinions?

hi
i own a small home/ hobby cnc router ..it works fine for me and im not looking for a larger machine specifically.

however my friend is selling his used Blackfoot 4x8 plywood cnc router and is inclusing the desktop computer, mach3, monitor, and porter cable 890 router as a spindle and makeshift 2x4 based table/stand and is in good working condition

that being said...he said i can have it for $1000

i did some research on this machine and some initial input from me is that retail price is ridiculously overpriced (should be $2000 max new)..all you are paying for is a wood gantry and some basic low ened motors and electronics plus some chain and alum angle iron...thats it

anyways at $1000 it even seems like a price thats not so good...or am i wrong?

should i buy it or walk away...?

any opinions would be appreciated

one thing for sure.....i feel sorry for all the suckers who paid $5000 new for one of these plywood cnc routers....they got ripped off and bamboozled lol

like i said im not looking for a larger cnc router..just wondering if i should jump on this price for the hell of it...(would be nice to have a larger capable cnc router if unique great deal steal opportunity came up) or walk away?

thanks

i would say the router and stepper motors and electronics would be lucky to have a used value of $150

man the more i think about the peiople who paid $5000 for this machine to more upset i get at the company for brainwashing people in their sales tactics...its sad..but hey we are all adults and apparently some are just not able to make wise decisions

ironic that i menttion making a wise decision and here i am deciding if i should buy lol....part of making a wise decision is researching and getting input and thats what im doing now :)

Good question...I paid about $1,200 in total for the MDF machine I built from scratch. Everything was new...motors, controller, etc. Motors would probably be labeled as low end...but they work.

How much trouble would you have resetting up this machine? That'd be the question I would ask myself. It's got a chain and sprocket that moves the Y...the X too? Looks like aluminum rail (this alone would disqualify the machine for me). If your time is limited, you might be buying something you'll never be able to get up and running. JMHO.

Shelby,

I think you answered your own question.

Which machine do you own?
Is the proposed machine better in any way?
Chain drive is probably the least desirable way of motion.
Aluminum rails will wear down pretty quickly.
Everything else is not worth much.
You don't need a large machine.

yes it uses chain drive for x and y and only has only 1 y motor to move the large gantry along y axis ..which seems like a poor design itself..and the motors are only nema 23 425oz..very small considering the size of machine....the electronics look like low end junk..the power supply is a cheap $20 unit lol...and the steppers look like cheap 3A version....and yes it uses cheap alum angle iron and v wheel bearings ...not ideal at all......yes i would have to take apart as little as possible to save integrity of machine..and then transport it to my house and reassemble so that all plays a role in my decision...but not hearing you say hell yeah jump at it tends to say its not a good deal//.....im not looking to just buy...im looking to buy if its a no brainer deal......how can anyone justify $5000 for this machine new is beyond my ability to even comprehend...

im starting to think that if he sold it to me for $500 it would be worth it since it includes mach3 and pc and monitor and porter calbe router..and it would be a win win situation?

i doubt he will go that low..since his dad paid $5k for it new in 2013

hi ....wow this blackfoot must be crap lol.....whos paying 5k for them new???

no i dont need one but would like one if good opportunity came up...to have the ability to make larger projects would be nice..but only if i come upon a steal of a deal

so fair it seems even at 80% off retail....or $1000 its not a good value at all

ok opinions on what price you would buy it at assumiing no other factors than it being too good to pass up?? im thinking about $500

davida this purchase for me has nothing to do with whats better or worse..im just trying to justify if its a deal i cant pass up...so far it seems like its a no go from initial inoput from you guys even at $1000

example..i dont need a car but would like a corvette.... if someone offered me a 2019 corvette for 5k i would buy it period....for no other reason than its a steal and an investment that is a win win...with virtually zero risk

same here..this opportunity came up and i would like a larger cnc router for home use but only if its a steal price...

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Originally Posted by Shelby5041

davida this purchase for me has nothing to do with whats better or worse..im just trying to justify if its a deal i cant pass up...so far it seems like its a no go from initial inoput from you guys even at $1000

example..i dont need a car but would like a corvette.... if someone offered me a 2019 corvette for 5k i would buy it period....for no other reason than its a steal and an investment that is a win win...with virtually zero risk

same here..this opportunity came up and i would like a larger cnc router for home use but only if its a steal price...

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You have already discovered the machine is overpriced and flawed in design. Unless you are able to build your own out of aluminum extrusions, lots of folks on here Think they can build one and come back with hundreds of very basic design and control questions.... and it never gets built. Otherwise the parts are of no use to you. Go to CNCRP and buy a Pro kit and the prewired control panel. When you get done you will have something that works, instead of spending 6 months to a year attempting to build one. If you have a product to sell, why not make that instead of building??

Below Link for Info only,
https://www.buildyourcnc.com/blackfoot48v40.aspx

Computer 150
mach3 $100
bearing $100
router $100
wood $100
lead screw and nut 50
stepper 3x50 $150
chain and sprockets $100
powers supply 3x20 $60
driver 3x40 $120
aluminum rails $30
Mis hardware $50
break out board and wire $50
Was labor worth anything putting it together and make it work. ????
I think there is $1000 to $800 value there, but I would have to ask. Do I like the design? I would have to see it in action and do some measuring of accuracy and speed. How long would it take to cut out a cabinet, out of 3/4 wood?
Ps the parts cost is just a guess.

Thanks for all the input..its obvious at $1000 its not a cant pass up deal...
what about $500?

also,fyi im not specifically looking to buy a cnc machine...i simply wanted input if the specific model blackfoot 4x8 cnc router was a unique opportunity for me at $1000 used.....guess not

I contacted blackfoot company he gave me specs

36v 9a power supply
2 stepper motor nema23 425oz
1 stepper nema34 650oz
2 stp,drives 4a
1 step drive 7a
z travel 7in
max feed 1000ipm

when i,asked,him why it seems machine is so overpriced and why is it made f plywood he wouldnt answer lol

Forvthe heck of it here is an actual photo of the cnc router my riend wnats to,sell me

Respnse from blackfoot rep
"
I personally like wood as compared to metal as it has a lower coefficient of linear expansion through temperature change and the wood that I use is MDO, used in the construction industry for concrete forms and can withstand a great amount of moisture. I built a compost bit in my backyard with this with no coating and has lasted for 4 years without bending or breaking down. We have folks in Hawaii use this machine for their work in the elements and the metal parts are the first break down.

I have customers that use my machines for more than 9 years with great success. I agree that CNCzone is a great group, but they will all be partial to metal machines. I mainly sell to academic institutions, military, military and government contractors as these folks understand the benefits of wood as I understand them. I also sell my machines to scientific institutions, that cannot use metal parts due to their sensitive scientific instruments.

My company was one of the first companies to use wood for machines and I believe, just because this was initiated doesn't mean that it is a poor material for machines. Most folks will be more predisposed to metal just because they has a certain perception. I design also in metal (The Fabricator Pro Machine), but I have not found that there is an appreciable benefit to using metal. Designed correctly, wood can be just as strong as metal.

I guess I just prefer wood. I understand that my machines may not be the best fit for you so I would recommend that you purchase the Zenbot. You will probably be more happy with that machine.

Many thanks and it was great to hear your feedback on my machines and designs, Patrick"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shelby5041

I contacted blackfoot company he gave me specs

36v 9a power supply
2 stepper motor nema23 425oz
1 stepper nema34 650oz
2 stp,drives 4a
1 step drive 7a
z travel 7in
max feed 1000ipm

when i,asked,him why it seems machine is so overpriced and why is it made f plywood he wouldnt answer lol

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Since its all cheap Chinese stuff I doubt if you have over $200 worth of parts listed, new price that is. A parallel port BoB would set you back another $40 or so. The Mach3 license is not transferable, so if you go to upgrade or move to another computer your SOL. If he has VCarve Pro it can be transferred with a letter and I think a small transfer fee.

Hey george...the blackfoot is made out of MDO which is superior to MDF or common plywood
i doubt the seller will do $500 but at $500 i think its a no brainer?
or are you guys still not even a buyer at $500?....see photo of actual machine

Hey george...the blackfoot is made out of MDO which is superior to MDF or common plywood
i doubt the seller will do $500 but at $500 i think its a no brainer?
or are you guys still not even a buyer at $500?....see photo of actual machine

- - - Updated - - -

Respnse from blackfoot rep
"
I personally like wood as compared to metal as it has a lower coefficient of linear expansion through temperature change and the wood that I use is MDO, used in the construction industry for concrete forms and can withstand a great amount of moisture. I built a compost bit in my backyard with this with no coating and has lasted for 4 years without bending or breaking down. We have folks in Hawaii use this machine for their work in the elements and the metal parts are the first break down.

I have customers that use my machines for more than 9 years with great success. I agree that CNCzone is a great group, but they will all be partial to metal machines. I mainly sell to academic institutions, military, military and government contractors as these folks understand the benefits of wood as I understand them. I also sell my machines to scientific institutions, that cannot use metal parts due to their sensitive scientific instruments.

My company was one of the first companies to use wood for machines and I believe, just because this was initiated doesn't mean that it is a poor material for machines. Most folks will be more predisposed to metal just because they has a certain perception. I design also in metal (The Fabricator Pro Machine), but I have not found that there is an appreciable benefit to using metal. Designed correctly, wood can be just as strong as metal.

I guess I just prefer wood. I understand that my machines may not be the best fit for you so I would recommend that you purchase the Zenbot. You will probably be more happy with that machine.

Many thanks and it was great to hear your feedback on my machines and designs, Patrick"

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Originally Posted by Shelby5041

Hey george...the blackfoot is made out of MDO which is superior to MDF or common plywood
i doubt the seller will do $500 but at $500 i think its a no brainer?
or are you guys still not even a buyer at $500?....see photo of actual machine

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I am not a buyer at any price, the cheap parts and the chain drive make it a no brainer.... not to purchase. If its a great deal someone will snap it up.

It's not the material, it's how you use it. You can build a bad steel machine as easily as a bad wood machine. And you can build a really good wood machine, but it takes a lot more work.

Chain drive is absolutely terrible. To get the slop out of it, you have to get it really tight. These machines aren't rigid enough to support a tight chain, so the frame will flex, and the chain will never get as tight as you'd like. And then the chain will stretch, requiring you to tighten it more.

Sure, it might be able to rapid at 1000 ipm, but it'll take 2 feet to get there.
If you read there forum, you'll see where most users cut in the 100ipm range. The machines just aren't rigid enough to cut faster.

I see on their website that they know say their Greenbull is a much stronger version of the Blackfoot. Even that machine is a toy.

And they now offer a "steel" machine for $17,000. By the looks of it, a CNC Router Parts machine is at least twice as rigid, for half the price.

The one thing they do really well, is get people to pay a lot of money for very subpar machines.

After being told it wasn't a great machine a number of times the OP keeps coming back with any number of "yes,but..." comments.He seems to want it.

The MDO plywood used in the construction of the kit machine is used for sign making and construction. But its still wood subject to expanding and contracting. The worst part is the chain drive.

Shelby, after the posts here and multiple correspondence with blackfoot, it sounds like you have already spent $1000.

$500 sounds good...but only if you completely believe you can get the machine up and running. I designed and built my machine and I know it like the back of my hand. But you don't have that advantage with the machine your considering. If you've even considered that you can spend $5,000 you'd be better off, in my opinion, looking into the commercially available kits that are being built by people on this forum.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shelby5041

Thanks for all the input..its obvious at $1000 its not a cant pass up deal...
what about $500?

also,fyi im not specifically looking to buy a cnc machine...i simply wanted input if the specific model blackfoot 4x8 cnc router was a unique opportunity for me at $1000 used.....guess not

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Hi...yes i do want it at right price..im not concerned about how its made or how accurate....here is my question since everyone in here says its such a pos...and not worth $1000 used complete........ who in their right mind is paying 5k for a new one?...please enlighten me lol
fyi..this,would be just home use not business..not commercial....i do agree that based on the actual components of the machine its not worth much..update...buyer said no to $500.....and note....to me a set of harbor freight digital calipers have great value and do,as,well,as starrett for home use....so if you are going to beat me up on that statement then apparently my needs are diff than yours...and i would have to consider that in your opinions given

Routalot..yes i do want it but only at a price thats great and since i am not familair with blackfootbdesign thata why i came in here for input...ive seen tiny flimsy 1000mm xcarves cnc routers sell all day long used for $1000.....and the motors and elec are nothing compared to blackfoots larger motors and drivers..... So I am now a bit confused on peoples opinions in here..

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here is my question since everyone in here says its such a pos...and not worth $1000 used complete........ who in their right mind is paying 5k for a new one?

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People that don't know any better.

If it didn't have the chain drive, then it might worth $1000. But the chain drive is absolute garbage. And everything else is marginal at best.
The plastic wheels rolling in aluminum extrusion on the X Carve are better than the steel wheels on aluminum angle that the blackfoot uses.

Personally I wouldn’t even consider a chain drive machine.

What is even more important here is to realize that this machine gives wood framed machines a bad name. Viable wood framed machines are perfectly possible for woodworking and can be economical if you have the tools to build the components. However there are a lot of bad designs out there for a general purpose router.

So yeah $1000 for a used machine that was never well designed in the first place is a bad investment.

As for what the vendor charges, it is really a question of staying in business. Any machine you buy is being sold at a considerable mark up over the prices for the individual components. The lower the volume the higher the mark up. Even the cheap low quality home center drill press is being sold at a profit by its Chinese maker.

The thing with routers is that the volume is so low that you see a big mark up to keep the companies building the machines in business. This is also why DIY makes a lot of sense for 3axis routers. The machines are simple enough that they can be easily manufactured in a Modest shop. What most people don’t do is figure out their hours invested and the expense that might add up too at a $60 an hour shop rate.

I don’t knock people for charging enough to stay in business. Frankly we could use a manufacture or two at the low end, that doesn’t go out of business after 3 years.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shelby5041

ironic that i menttion making a wise decision and here i am deciding if i should buy lol....part of making a wise decision is researching and getting input and thats what im doing now :)

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shelby5041

Thanks for all the input..its obvious at $1000 its not a cant pass up deal...
what about $500?

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Well at some point any machine has salvage value! That is why machines get purchased for their scrap iron value. Honestly though I don’t even see $500 worth of value here. It is by definition used hardware that was of low quality to begin with. Even Mach 3 has been unsupported for years. Then you need to consider if the trouble is even worth your time.

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also,fyi im not specifically looking to buy a cnc machine...i simply wanted input if the specific model blackfoot 4x8 cnc router was a unique opportunity for me at $1000 used.....guess not

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If you have no need for a machine there is no opportunity here. Frankly you are eating around the bush here for a reason that deep down I don’t think you can justify.

If that photo is suppose to inspire someone to buy it is a failure.

I’m not sure why you are so focused on price as the machines ability to do what you need and an actual need for a machine should be primary factors. In any event I would dismiss this machine immediately due to the chain drives.

As for MDO, good quality MDO is great stuff. The problem is how you use it. This frankly applies to all materials. I just don’t see a well designed machine in those photos.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shelby5041

Hey george...the blackfoot is made out of MDO which is superior to MDF or common plywood
i doubt the seller will do $500 but at $500 i think its a no brainer?
or are you guys still not even a buyer at $500?....see photo of actual machine

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I appreciate all the input....someone else bought the blackfoot for $2000...so its gone....the seller accepted my $800 offer but i was a day late...i was going to buy it but he sold it to,someone else

Younare right though..these comapnies can sell anything to gullable,people....look at the maslow cnc....its a joke and just plain ridiculous but people buy it and pay a lot of money for it.....i laugh at the design

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Originally Posted by Shelby5041

Younare right though..these comapnies can sell anything to gullable,people....look at the maslow cnc....its a joke and just plain ridiculous but people buy it and pay a lot of money for it.....i laugh at the design

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That Maslow thing looks like a death trap super sketchy looking. Reminds me of a chainsaw on the end of a pole.

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Originally Posted by Shelby5041

I appreciate all the input....someone else bought the blackfoot for $2000...so its gone....the seller accepted my $800 offer but i was a day late...i was going to buy it but he sold it to,someone else

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Someone not so smart about CNC and my guess it will be on the market again.... maybe sooner than you think.

BTW MDO board is designed to be used for signs and other projects needing a very smooth surface, I doubt if it its used for concrete forms as its pricey.

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Originally Posted by wmgeorge

Someone not so smart about CNC and my guess it will be on the market again.... maybe sooner than you think.

BTW MDO board is designed to be used for signs and other projects needing a very smooth surface, I doubt if it its used for concrete forms as its pricey.

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The guys I know that do concert just use regular ol' Home Depot lumber, maybe it's used for specialty jobs? Definitely not used for driveways or retaining walls most contractors use what's cheap and available.

found another blackfoot 4x8 used cnc for only $500...

correction $5000

I have a Blackfoot - it's my first cnc and I love it! I got it for $800 and think it's pretty awesome, but it has it's limits. I've made some beautiful signs, and I have zero regrets about buying it. Yes, it's low tech construction, but that has advantages too. I know I can fix anything that goes wrong. I also can upgrade if I feel the need. I say get one, it's a cheap way to get into it. If you don't like it, you won't have any issues reselling it. I just thought you might like to hear from a guy that actually has one. Good luck