Camsoft website very dated

I have been looking at Camsoft for the best part of 10 years and have not committed so far. There is lots of praise for the system on various forums.
What I find most unnerving about buying into the system is the corporate image is at best poor and lacks inspiration. No good quality videos to be found anywhere, if you look at the likes of Machmotion, Centroid etc They all have a very good quality corporate image. Camsoft seem to stuck in the dark ages. This does not inspire confidence in there products and the software is almost the most expensive out there.
I expect a few disciples to say how good it is, that might be the case but if the company does not market its products properly the end is nigh.

Also they charge for support after the first year, it is basically a good system, although as you say expensive, If they had also included the Hobbies't in their pricing, they may have sold considerably more. As they proceeded Mach I believe.
They originally used the Galil card which I have used extensively and they make superb CNC controllers with many features, I don't know why Galil didn't design their own front end HMI as I am sure it would be more economical.
There originally was also Acroloop motion card which they did come up with their own front end but were taken over by Parker and things seemed to fade off.
Al.

As you say it and from what I have read its a very good system if not a bit geeky and not turn key.
But what worries me if I invest in a couple of systems a large sum of money. (I have more than hobby machines)
will the support still be here in five years time.
looking at there webs site and you tube videos there are no new video been posted for the last couple of years
(come on Camsoft get a couple of modern retrofit videos on youtube all the other players do)
This does not inspire confidence like all the other players do, it looks like the company is going down the pan.

The quality of a website is not always a reflection of a companies product quality or corporate viability. I can point you to several really great websites with countless videos and very professional done that turn out absolute trash for a product and have horrible reviews on the forums, but they still continue to sell stuff based on the "glitter". What it (having a dated website) does show is that they either don't have a talented web guy or do not choose to invest in someone to do that. The fact they have been in business for years and there are not a batch of negative reviews should be something to check on the positive side of the ledger. This landscape is littered with the bones of failed companies but most had decent websites because they could be in a garage or a 10,000 sq ft building and post anything they want . For the first 5 years in business our website was pretty lame because it was developed by me and I worked on it when I had time (almost never). Now we have a dedicated graphics dept and a web master . It's about priorities and product development and support should trump glitz if its either/or. In a list of criteria of who you should consider writing a check to for lots of money, the quality of the website has to fall in the "marketing" part which should not be at the top of the list
TOMcaudle
www.candcnc.com

I suppose you should hear from at least one long time user. I did my first refit in 2002 and they were an older well established business at that time. That machine is still making parts using all the same hardware.

Yep, fancy glitzy web site is not their thing. They concentrate on the meat and potatoes of having the best possible control. And yep, its not cheap, and support isn't cheap either.Their target market is refiittng industrial size machinery with lots of auxiliary equipment like tool changers, etc. if you have equipment in this category, Camsoft is your best possible control. Remember you do get what you pay for in this world.

Camsoft does not go out of their way to look modern. Yes, the websites are outdated and the software is similarly outdated. For example, I don't know why they still sell AS3000, and their online help system is right out of Windows 95. That being said, they do continue to do a good job of making sure their software will work on the latest version of Windows (as well as all the older versions for legacy support reasons). Given that many CNC machines are still around using very old PC's, and Camsoft still supports those old computers, that partly explains why their stuff looks outdated. I think the current version of Camsoft works on Windows 95 still, yet it also supports Windows 10. It would be difficult to modernize Camsoft and still provide that support. I would like to see them branch the software and modernize for those of us using new computers. But it is not likely to happen. I think there is just too much legacy code in there written for old compilers. So it is a huge undertaking to modernize the software, and possibly a huge risk doing so without fundamentally breaking the product as well.

I will, no doubt, trigger a message from Camsoft support berating me for my comments. They will say people have made modern looking controls using their software, but when you ask them to show an example, they always say they are proprietary to their customers so they can't show them. This is really just an excuse. If they want to show the modern community how modern Camsoft can look, Camsoft needs to make an example that looks modern, release it as part of their software, update their website to show this modern look, and create new videos of just how great their product can be. I'm not holding my breath this will happen.

The real power of Camsoft is how programmable it is. Once you learn how their custom language works (which isn't difficult for anyone that has the time and gumption to do it), it is very easy to program a variety of custom features on your system, and truthfully, the reason I still use it is I will only use a CNC controller that lets me custom program how it works. It isn't perfect. There are some features that work only a certain way in Camsoft. You can't program around them. Or to program around them requires writing a lot more software than you probably want to get into. The tool menu is one example, and a couple of the ways some G codes work is another (like the T command). These issues largely don't matter from a functional point of view, but they may be disappointing from a visual or UI point of view.

Is all this worth their asking price? There are PC based software systems available where you can achieve almost the same result for less cost than Camsoft's yearly maintenance fee. Yet Camsoft continues to stay in business. I think they have very low overhead. I also assume they sell a lot to the low end professional market, and probably people customizing the less common types of machines that main stream CNC controllers weren't designed for. In fact, with 8 axis capability and ease of programming totally custom machine types, this is probably Camsoft's forte. I would not recommend Camsoft to a hobbyist, though. Honestly, Mach3 is way cheaper and far better for hobbyists, both in cost, and method of support.

I have one system using Camsoft which makes me decent money, so I keep paying the yearly maintenance fee to make sure I can get support on that machine if it is needed. I would, however, like to replace Camsoft with a modern professional controller (not PC based). I was looking at an AccuRite 3500i (Heidenhain) which is a very nice controller with modern UI. It is now discontinued, replaced with a simpler 3 axis only controller, but my point is, for the $8K to $12K range it takes to buy a controller like the 3500i, there are some excellent controllers out there, and they are fully programmable for custom applications (the 3500i uses Perl for example). It's not like the old days of ladder logic. Depending on the hardware you buy, you can spend that much on Camsoft. Or you can find ways to do it much cheaper with Camsoft as well.

I have also installed Mach3 on the same system (I can dual boot and run my CNC machine with Mach3 or Camsoft). Mach3 did the job fine as well, but because I use a Galil card, and the Galil driver for Mach3 is a user supported thing, I can't risk using it. I had a part ruined because of a software update. Mach3 is hobbyist level stuff, so that is to be expected.

I've had a love/hate relationship with Camsoft for years. I continue to pay the yearly fee, but their product also aggravates me greatly at times. My biggest aggravation, however, is Camsoft has the potential to be _THE_ PC based CNC controller for all markets (hobbyist to pro level) if they would move out of just maintaining it, and instead start moving it into the modern age. I think a cheaper initial price and better support methodology would pull in a significant number of the hobby and professional DIY market too, but I can also see reasons they may not want to do that as support is the problem. On the other hand, products like Mach3 don't really provide direct support, but I've never had any trouble finding answers to my questions because there is such a large user base on the Internet.

Regards,
Michael

I have stirred up a real hornets nest here. This was not my intention, I just really wish that that Camsoft would put out some really good details videos of some retrofits including details of how it has been done.

(not the usual cnc screen running and some motion with a cutter in poor quality video output)

Please stop telling us how good it is show us how good it is.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by a20cae

Please stop telling us how good it is show us how good it is.

No good quality videos to be found anywhere, if you look at the likes of Machmotion, Centroid etc They all have a very good quality corporate image. Camsoft seem to stuck in the dark ages
I have stirred up a real hornets nest here. This was not my intention,

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But if you offer criticism it usually results in the corresponding reply! :)

My original findings with Camsoft were mixed , at the time I was a self employed Mitsubishi CNC system retro-fitter (excellent Co BTW, No support charges!!), I was also using the Galil card and was looking for a decent front end HMI etc, I picked up a Camsoft system off of ebay from a guy who abandoned it and found it did the job fairly well and was easy to configure.I
It may have changed now, but at the time I did not get a good feel in my contact with Camsoft, First the UI screen example looked like it had been designed by someone used to designing Video game screens with the Shag rug effect and wooden picture frames around the screens.
I know it was configurable, but first impressions are important, but also the personnel did not appear to be completely familiar with CNC side of control pertaining to most machining functions.
One of the reasons I switched from Fanuc to Mitsubishi was the Fanuc desire to charge for service sheet info as well as over the phone service etc, where as Mits offered it all free.
I ended up using a simple graphic screen HMI program with Galil, and in spite of no cutting path display etc it did the job intended.
I have also used a PLC in conjunction with Galil for the M-code I/O .
Galil have also now come out with a PLC add on after a little prompting!
Al..

We hear you and we'll do it.

We want people to know that we have 4 web-sites now.
cnccontrols.com
is the main site these days that we advertise and keep up with. The other sites are still up but mainly to keep the web-site address. We were lucky to get cnccontrols.com address in 1991 when the web was brand new. This was a time where we were the only PC based CNC controller on the market and have been in business selling CNC software for 10 years already by then. We are always updating this web-site with News, New features and Information.

It's about time we put some more new videos on there. So we invite our customers to send us their Video's and we'll put them on web-site. They can be making parts or how they do things on their machine.

We do have many video's archived that we could of posted over the years, if we thought changing videos we're that important. There's a good amount now and we know having too many is not good either. There's many great America products that we all know and hope stay consistent. We believe in that too. Ours customers tell us that what's important to them is to have that files they have been using on their machines keep working with their original hardware after they update even if they have to buy a new computer or upgrade to a newer version of Windows.

We get that this is important and maybe why we have so many long term customers that stay with us. We believe this is because we make it so they can keep updating their software, computers & Windows without having to change hardware. We want to say that while we still make available on our installation CD old Windows driver versions, Windows help , hardware drivers and many older model motion & I/O cards to keep customers machines running. What people don't see or stop to think about is how we can get their existing hardware which was invented & made before today's Windows versions, new computers with mother board changes and today's BIOS chips came out run like new again.

Meaning their machine runs the same as it did even with a new computer or Windows upgrade. Since we write our own drivers it's possible to keep a customer's machine running using a newer version of Windows on a new computer with their machines existing Motion card, I/O boards, Pendants, Motors & Amp Drive hardware. Besides extending the life cycle of the machine they get a faster computer and better graphics. We use several brands of motion and I/O boards and boxes these days that come from all over the world. Some people don't realize that the manufactures of these motion & I/O cards only provide drivers for their cards that run on new versions of Windows or only on mother boards with late model mother boards and BIOS chips. This is one of the main reasons we write our own hardware drivers to be backwards compatible. We make it the customer's choice to choose new or old without having to toss out their hardware boards that are working now and replace them with newer models just because the drivers aren't available.

We work hard here to update Windows , Motion card & I/O board hardware drivers. Almost every Friday here we update our software to keep up with Windows changes. The current installation CD gives you a choice from Windows 98 through Windows 10 " We did drop Windows 95 a while back but left the files on the CD just in-case ". It's our philosophy and advantage to give customers more choices than everyone else in the business: CamSoft's current CNC Professional version runs on New or Old Windows, New or Old computers with new or old BIOS chips and mother boards for almost every American, European and Asian motor brand name that is AC, DC, Brush or Brushless, Hydraulic, PWM or Stepper motor that accepts a very wide variety of industry standard signals such as +/-10V Analog, PWM, Pulse Width Modulation, Step an Direction or Dual Pulse & Direction.

The cnccontrols.com site works for us. The video's on it are making our point. These are real customer videos. Not ones we prepared, choreographed or staged. They may have been shorten but there are no Hollywood special effects, not edited or photo shopped in any way. Send us your CamSoft video and we'll show you our gratitude in return.


Tech Support
CamSoft Corp.
[email protected]
PH 951-674-8100
Fax 951-674-3110
PC Based CNC Controller For The Machine Tool CNC Retrofit And CNC Controller OEM Market

I tend to agree with most of whats been said by the Camsoft staff with one major caveat.
If you asked me as a potential customer, would I like to see several well edited good quality videos
of how a generic the instalation takes place, the answer is a resounding yes.

You can go on Youtube and find no end of videos watching a CNC making swarf. (yawn)

I have a copy of the Camsoft install manual from some year ago (available for nominal fee at the time)
It is good if a bit heavy going but worth the read if you really are interested.

Thats not really good enough now days. Video is the way, it will perhaps put some off but not all I suspect.