Removing Motor and Transmission From VF-2!

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10-04-2013, 12:32 AM
Machineit

Removing Motor and Transmission From VF-2!

Hi all,

I was running parts today when I got a 179 fault, "Low Spindle Oil or Pressure."

Pulled the cover and found that a plastic hose from the tranny to the pump was broken. I was hoping that I could get it replaced easily, but of course no. :)

It goes under the motor and transmission and is connected underneath the tranny. At first I hoped that I could just splice into it and do a temp repair, but it quickly broke off under the tranny.

Already have hose on the way and I ordered new spindle belts, encoder belt and pulleys and they are on their way. Might as well change the 19 year old parts while it is apart. :)

The question I have is about a warning on the front of the tranny. It say to "Block The Counter Balance Prior To Removing The Motor And Transmission." Makes sense, as I will be taking about 300+ pounds off the machine, but I find no reference to that in the service manual under changing or removing the motor and tranny.

They do say to take the spindle to the top, so is that good enough for stopping the counter balance from being damaged? If not, how do I block it before removing motor and transmission?

Missed the shipping time for today, and won't get parts until Monday, so plenty of time to clean up the old girl before putting her skirt back on.

Thanks in advance.

Mike
10-04-2013, 02:54 AM
ROBBY 68

Mike
Perhaps your machine has counterweight?
If it's 19 years old, counterbalance was not released......
If you see chains above Z then has counterweight.
And no need to block, spindle may move upward a little .
Be careful, if mechanical orientation you have to adjust it as well. Because of belt removal.
Robby
10-04-2013, 12:15 PM
Machineit

Nope, Nitrogen.

Mike
10-04-2013, 01:27 PM
cncfixxer

Hope that I understand correctly ... a similar problem with K&T's ... they used a hydraulic counter balance and every so often the hyd valve would not seat after shutdown. To change the valve I would raise the head then lower it so it rests on wooden blocks.
10-04-2013, 01:39 PM
Machineit

Guys, think backwards, I'm trying to prevent the nitrogen counter balance from over powering the ball screw and motor when I remove 300+ pounds from the Z axis.

Mike
10-04-2013, 01:57 PM
cncfixxer

In that case ... put a tool in the spindle with a threaded bar ...lower the head until you can thread the bar into the slot nuts
Of course I don't know the exact design of your spindle housing but a variation could be to find a suitable area on the head to use a sling then attach the sling to the lower casting
10-05-2013, 05:43 PM
cncfixxer

Duh ...sorry for misunderstanding. And please disregard tool in spindle (like I have to tell you ) I did the "rod" thing in a Fagor with less than a few pounds pre-load but 300lbs may be sufficient upward force for an ejection seat.

I will stay with putting a nylon sling over top of the housing and run it through a couple eye bolts screwed into T slot nuts on the table

Trust me when I tell you that I would probably pay big money if I could delete my "spindle" advice. That post will be around for a long time.
10-05-2013, 06:45 PM
Machineit

Quote:

Originally Posted by cncfixxer

Duh ...sorry for misunderstanding. And please disregard tool in spindle (like I have to tell you ) I did the "rod" thing in a Fagor with less than a few pounds pre-load but 300lbs may be sufficient upward force for an ejection seat.

I will stay with putting a nylon sling over top of the housing and run it through a couple eye bolts screwed into T slot nuts on the table

Trust me when I tell you that I would probably pay big money if I could delete my "spindle" advice. That post will be around for a long time.

I wasn't going to say anything, but!!!! :) I'll erase it from my brain after a few beers! :cheers:

I just finished the install of new belts and such and did not worry about blocking anything after a little testing. It was amazing that the rigid tapping encoder worked at all. The spindle side pulley was nearly gone and had no bottom shield. If I turned the encoder the belt just skipped over the pulley on the spindle side.

Forgot to notice the spindle orientation and I'm adjusting it now and I'll be all done. $5.00 worth of tubing from McMaster-Carr to fix the whole thing. Just threw another $360.00 worth of belts, pulleys and a new tool release switch for good measure. I do not want to do this again in my lifetime. Not nearly easy enough when you are 66 years old and by yourself working with one lung. Damn I'm worn out.

:violin:

Thanks all------Mike
10-07-2013, 12:58 PM
Machineit

2 Attachment(s)

Okay, all done. It was a good thing I got the pulleys and the belt for the encoder. As you can see from the pics, they were nearly gone. Could have started breaking taps at any time and not knew why.

The spindle belts looked okay, but while I was there.........

Back to work-----Mike
10-07-2013, 08:08 PM
haastec

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machineit

Okay, all done. It was a good thing I got the pulleys and the belt for the encoder. As you can see from the pics, they were nearly gone. Could have started breaking taps at any time and not knew why.

The spindle belts looked okay, but while I was there.........

Back to work-----Mike

Good catch and forethought for changing out the belts and pulleys.

I would keep the old spindle belts as an emergency backup pair just in case you ever break one on a Friday night with a Monday delivery date; it always happens that way you know.
10-07-2013, 08:47 PM
Machineit

Quote:

Originally Posted by haastec

Good catch and forethought for changing out the belts and pulleys.

I would keep the old spindle belts as an emergency backup pair just in case you ever break one on a Friday night with a Monday delivery date; it always happens that way you know.

Thanks haastec. Yup, the old belts were still good, just a tad stiffer than the new and they are bagged and tagged and ready for an emergency.

If anyone is interested, there was no issue lifting the weight of the motor and tranny off of the spindle head. It did not seem to budge or make any difference at all. I Was just a little thrown off by the tag saying to block it.

Up and running parts. Still a great little machine for 18 years old.

Mike
03-02-2014, 10:35 PM
Machineit

I thought I would post a quick follow-up to this thread.

In one post I mentioned that I was glad that I caught it before I started breaking taps. Well, it turned out that I had been for some time. I do thousands of 8-32 taping cycles and once in a while I rare while I broke one in stainless steel while going fairly deep. I had also gotten holes with what I would describe as rough threads, not smooth.

I just noticed that I have not had that problem since and have not broken a single tap since that belt and pulley change on the encoder. Seems that it was skipping a tooth or so on the reversing of the tap. That also caused the rough threads as it was slightly off on the retract even if it did not break.

Just thought I would let those who may be experiencing the same thing, with the older machine with the encode mounted inside the spindle housing, know that that may be the issue.

Cheers---Mike
03-03-2014, 02:03 PM
haastec

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machineit

I thought I would post a quick follow-up to this thread.

In one post I mentioned that I was glad that I caught it before I started breaking taps. Well, it turned out that I had been for some time. I do thousands of 8-32 taping cycles and once in a while I rare while I broke one in stainless steel while going fairly deep. I had also gotten holes with what I would describe as rough threads, not smooth.

I just noticed that I have not had that problem since and have not broken a single tap since that belt and pulley change on the encoder. Seems that it was skipping a tooth or so on the reversing of the tap. That also caused the rough threads as it was slightly off on the retract even if it did not break.

Just thought I would let those who may be experiencing the same thing, with the older machine with the encode mounted inside the spindle housing, know that that may be the issue.

Cheers---Mike

Thanks for the follow up. Glad it has been working good for you.
04-11-2019, 03:42 AM
xyzer

Re: Removing Motor and Transmission From VF-2!

Mike, 6 years later! My 98 VF2 did the exact scenario. Pump coupler failed,crumbling hose, have to do same thing. Your post helped. Does the tank lift up attached to the bottom of the transmission? Can you attach a new hose without more disasembly?
04-15-2019, 03:28 PM
Machineit

Re: Removing Motor and Transmission From VF-2!

Truth is I don't remember. It has been a long while. I am thinking I spliced into the hose, but not sure.
04-27-2019, 10:32 PM
fishyfishy

2 Attachment(s)

Re: Removing Motor and Transmission From VF-2!

Quote:

Originally Posted by xyzer

Mike, 6 years later! My 98 VF2 did the exact scenario. Pump coupler failed,crumbling hose, have to do same thing. Your post helped. Does the tank lift up attached to the bottom of the transmission? Can you attach a new hose without more disasembly?

If you haven't done it yet this might help. I just replaced this hose on my 1999. I had to raise the motor to get to it. I rocked it back and forth adding wood blocks until I could access the clamp. I had to raise it higher in order to put the new clamp on than I did to remove it.