SprutCam & 4th Axis

I know. I know. All the hobbiests have jumped ship for Fusion360, but I have some fundamental issues with Fusion360. (Yes I know how to use it. I mostly only used it for the CAM features like HSM adaptive tool paths and rest machining).

I know absolutely nothing about SprutCam other than some old threads of people complaining about license issues and failure to load when installing updates.

Right now I use a 3axis cam and manually add indexing code between the operations. In some cases I just right the raw code (like to true up a full round piece of stock) I am looking for something with true 4th axis simultaneous capability. Also something that performs better when doing 3D operations and treats near vertical surfaces with as good of resolution as near horizontal surfaces.

Simple comments. Sprutcam will get it done. Expensive compared to fusion. Can be complex and difficult to learn. Like any complex and expensive tool the more you learn the more it works for you. I use sprutcam to drive a 4 axis mill, router and lathe. With setup often being just a few clicks. But this is after years and years of use and setting up dozens of custom templates for the 3 machines. I also have 100's of pages of setup notes and adding more all the time. No way to memorize and navigate all the settings if your not using this complex software almost full time. Also it works best if you adapt to how it works. Fighting sprutcam can be exhausting.

IMHO it would be expensive, time consuming and frustrating to learn this program just to use the 4th axis module. But if you dig in, build a system and process for art to part this program will start to shine big time. As I mentioned before I do multi side /offset parts complete with fixtures and collision detection often in just a few clicks.

Is the cost for the non-Tormach damaged version that much higher? Yes I noticed the Tormach versions says it only works for Tormach machines.

At the prices on the Tormach site its about the same cost as a couple years subscription to Fusion (depending on which version you buy) and its rent free.

I noticed two things that turned me off.

1. Call for quote. I despise that marketing model.
2. It looks like they nickle and dime you with add-on modules to get everything you need.

I understand about getting setup to do the jobs. I have dozens of templates and hundred of saved styles for each of a few different machines with what I use now. I won't say I can do a lot of jobs with just a few clicks, unless your definition of a few is a little more liberal than mine. I do mostly organic shape multiple cavity mold making. 95% two piece with a simple parting line, but sometimes it gets more complicated than that.

My typical work flow is to design a 3D positive in an independent CAD program (or start with one somebody sent me) and use that to create a negative or negatives. If its symmetrical I only need one. I drop that single negative into CAM and lay it out on a work piece area and nest it using nesting capability built into my CAM software. I leave room for things like screws, pins, runners, gates, a sprue and any inserted hardware. Then I draw those things using simple 2D CAD built into my CAM software. Point lists for drilling and threading. Lines for engraving vents, etc etc et... Its really all 2.5D work at that stage. Some things like runners and sprues I use 3D objects for because it allows me to use a smaller cutter that works better than slotting a huge sprue with a huge cutter. If its symmetrical then I create a second set of operations and scale them across an axis line using a scale -1.I guess I can often create the second plate with just a little more than a few clicks. LOL. That's not all I do, but its by and far the most common type of work I see. Since I usually use two machines at a time or cut both halves of a mold at a time on one machine in a fixture plate I just use a common work origin. I will sometimes use a G4 & G55 if using a machine with two vises, but most of the time I use premade fixture plates for multiple parts so I just lay the job out on templates for my fixture plates.

For 4th axis(ish) work in the past (I might have mentioned this) I have just tossed a couple spindexers on a mill table face to face, and prepped the stock on a lathe for the type of 4th axis work I've done. Usually (not always) stuff that could have been done faster on a CNC lathe. I've got a fixture plate for that keyed to the table on one of the Speedmasters. It goes on within a couple thousands over its length just by dropping it in place. Then I would walk over to the machine when it stops, reindex the part manually, and press start. Some parts need to be reindexed every several degrees. Others can just be done at 0/90/180/270 with 90/270 positions often (not always) just being for cleanup. The biggest issue for me has been if I forget to unlock both spindexers and the part slips or if for some reason I miss the correct index hole inside a cramped machine cabinet all covered in chips in a hurry.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bob La Londe

I noticed two things that turned me off.

1. Call for quote. I despise that marketing model.
2. It looks like they nickle and dime you with add-on modules to get everything you need.

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It's the nature of the game on both points .
They are all direct in their take it or leave it approach , with the exception of the bobcad used car salesman team who will negotiate their packages .
It only takes a moment to email one of these companies for a quote and there is probably more to gain than there is to lose . Talking to someone direct is going to get you exactly what you need vs the possibility of buying the wrong package which may leave out key features .

And , you have to factor in the amount of idiots in this world . It probably saves a lot of time and energy on their part from dealing with people who click and buy the wrong package , then come back to complain and demand their money back

Well mostly the reason I can claim just a few clicks is I have my system standardized. Any given part has 1-6 sides or offsets. I tend to use same operations to get results on every part. Starting with surface op, profile ops. Rest ops, Drill ops, tap ops and of course they all end with chamfer op for side one. Then flip part and repeat with set of common ops for that side. The templates are setup in sprutcam ready to go. Load template, load part model, adjust offsets. then pick surfaces and features for each side of part. I tend to use many of the 3d ops like waterline with simple settings that always work. Not always very efficient tool paths but you get drama free results that you can always go back a do faster. Over time you build up common cam setups for a given job making the process even more refined. Including each machine like special op groups and setups for router depending on material and model. Same for mill with 4th axis. templates for cutting gears, wrapped text, simple indexed ops, gcode , one side to six sides, different offsets, mixed and matched with fixture plates, vices, whatever. What can I say I have been using it for a while. I also use iron cad for models with ability to export part, stock and all fixtures models direct into sprutcam tree adding another level of detail and ability with complete fixtures in the cam setups.

The all post version is not cheap 2k plus for full version with no robot. On the plus side they are adding basic cad next version. So users can get by without full blown cad

I have been eyeballing the 4th axis from Tormach and I love F360. Are there are big reasons you're wanting to get away from F360 for 4th axis? If I can't use F360 with the 4th axis, that might be a deal killer for me.

Autodesk plays games and changes the rules to manipulate things. Even with things as simple as renewing your current rental agreement. People I know who actively use it have had issues renewing and then been told that because they let their agreement lapse they have to accept a current offering. So far all have been able to call and get it set back, but that takes time and effort. Time and effort working for them for free that you are not working for your customers so you can afford to pay them. The simple fact is I DO NOT TRUST AUTODESK. While I am not on the face of it opposed to paying for updates I am adamantly opposed to an ever changing agreement for rental software. Its like paying blackmail for something the blackmailer never gives up. They are going to keep hitting you up.

Now I am aware this may provoke a backlash of Fusion users and fans with "justification" and "well not mine" statements. Please don't. In my opinion Autodesk can not be trusted, and I am opposed to software rental.

I do not believe that the current Fusion 360 "free" hobbyist offering supports true 4th axis. I'm not even sure it still supports 3+1 or 3+2 for indexing, and was not setup last time I used it to easily plug in manually written code for simple indexing. However, I suggest not taking my word for that. I have not logged into Fusion in over a year. Just long enough to delete all my projects there.