Siemens 840C on a '96 Hyundai HiT 30S.........Where do you even begin!?

Any and all,
That have had any experience with the Siemens 840C control; please point me in the right direction. Having programmed everything from old BOSS-2i through current Fanuc, Mitsubishi, and Mazatrol (Mitz); never have I stumbled upon something as absolutely bewildering as this Sinumerik 840C. Previously, typically without manuals, I've been capable of "feeling my way through" the control. In the capacity of writing my own code, setting tool offsets, and work piece offsets, within a day or so.
That would be far from the truth in this case; I look like a monkey f#(&ing a football. Having heard so many positive statements regarding both the power and the simplistic logic of the Siemens control, I purchased this 1996 Hyundai HiT30S in SWEET condition at auction at a steal. Now that it's come time to put it to use; I've wasted about three full days using my old tried-n-true, jump in feet first, approach. Every manual I could find regarding the 840C, I've downloaded and archived. We are predominately a Mazak shop and tricked myself into thinking this piece was going to behave much like it's Mazatrol (Mitz) powered counterpart.
Anyone got any tips to help me get a little farther along?

Mike

Hi Mike what exactly you have problem with on sinumerik?
Sinumerik is very easy to understand and they all time doing for people make programs
Pretty similar to Dellcam.You need to working with features like turning Od. iD grooves threads.tell me more what is you target.
Tom

Puma230,
Thank you for your reply! My needs for the machine are actually very simple; face, center drill, and chamfer the edge of a 3.03" diameter blank. It could literally be done with only two tools. The problem is where the Hell do ya start on this thing? In hind sight, it appears that all of the Japanese controls, had a basic and common "layout" (if you will) about them; regardless of whether they were EIA/ISO or conversational in nature. The Sinumerik, I can find no common ground.
I can't figure out how to even measure the tools; the machine has a tool eye identical to our Mazak's for God's sake! I am even more confused after the past 3-4 days of struggling with this system as to how/where to write a a program than when I started. Could it be that I've downloaded the wrong manuals? Should I have gone to Hyundai first; as the Siemens literature is just a bunch of repeated double speak with no straight forward information.

Kind regards,
Mike

1) How do you measure the tools utilizing the tool eye? Followed the directions from the help screen with no results.
2)Where/How to begin a program (of any kind, EIA/ISO or Conversational)? TEACH, MDA, Channels? Groups? WTF?????


Mike

It is almost as though a portion of the GUI is completely missing; there is no way this should be so cumbersome and in navigable as this. Could this be possible?

Mike.

Could this be the reason there are tons of video tutorials on every other conceivable Sinumerik 808, 810, 828, and 840......."D" control you'd ever ask for; with not a whiff of ANYTHING with a "C" attached to it?

Mike.

Mike - did you get it figured?

My machine with the 840c is an Emco Maier with twin turrets and spindles, so it programs a bit different- but I've pretty well got it sorted. I'll try to help understand these German wonders as best I can

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

John,
Hell no; this is so insanely over complicated, it's just depressing. I mean, as thoroughly as they knocked off the Mazak Quick Turn that this was based on; the copied the Mazak perfectly with exception to the important part.....the control.
Holy cow this thing is weird! Anyone have the actual "HiTrol" manuals for the machine (NOT the Siemens manuals) out there for sale? I hear that this is the BEST way to get a handle on it.
The machine is in AMAZING condition, and deadly accurate, I just don't think it's going to have a future here amongst the MAzaks.
John, any help would be appreciated, especially if you know of any of the old "HiTrol" manual sets might be acquired. Anyone interested in buying a couple of turning centers????

Mike.

Mike,
No, not familiar with the Hitrol - just got a slim grip on the Siemens programming. Sorry


Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

Would this help?
Documentation for The Hyundai Lathe 18s Siemens 840C | eBay

Sweet! It's certainly worth a shot and it's cheap enough. Thank for that; I appreciate the help!

Mike

Where are you physically located? Maybe someone local could help you?

Randleman, North Carolina. Trying to purchase manuals on eBay currently.

Mike.

Mike did you figure the 840c out because we bought 2 of these with the same controls ,we have haas ,bridgeport dx32,clausing fanuc,with no troubles programing problems but what you described is our same problem to the "T".any help would be appreciated
Garry Cox 325 2140010

Garry,
Hell no, have yet to figure this damned thing out; I'll not make the mistake of buying ANYTHING with a Siemens control again in the future. They are of absolutely NO HELP what so ever. eMails, phone calls, doesn't matter; any response you get (IF you get one) is SO vague in nature it is difficult to determine if the individual on the other end knows anymore than he who is asking for assistance.
The iron is FABULOUS, on par with my Mazak equipment, but that control is the most ass-backwards, around your elbow to get to your pinky finger, POS that I've ever encountered. Well, maybe not THAT bad; the old Bridgeport "BOSS" controls of the late 1970's were pretty bad.......but at least they were pretty straight forward. In the event you can pawn those pieces of mule-**** off on someone (preferably someone who "loves" Siemens controls); I HIGHLY suggest dumping them! DO NOT waste your time trying to figure this ragged-ass POS out; time is money and it'll nickel and dime you to death trying to make these machines a useful addition to your production needs.
I would be willing to talk you through what little we did figure out in order to produce the ONE part we run on the machine; just let me know a time and I'll call ya.

Mike

Mike, I was hoping you finally got this going, we have all the manuals that go with it but you can program it to the "T" per manual and still get different results ,it looks simple as anything when you open up the windows (i'm assuming the conversational side) for turn,bore,thread ,ect and put in the info on this is like a cad-cam program but then when we save it , an error message says can't find file or something like this .We have ran it with a g code file we have wrote but setting up the tools doesn't exactly work per manuals either .like you said its a well built machine and fast moving almost scary at times.I'm wondering if we have deleted some of the operational software or something . It will give you a headache after awhile.The shop we bought it from was going under but had a bunch of machines sell but said these were running fine and we ran a little test before the sale seemed ok then .I bought 2 hit 15s machines.its aggravating because I know someone out there can run these or show us the ropes on it.even tried to find the guy's at the shop where we bought them to see if they would be interested in doing a training day or something. Its kinda like going back to old technology nobody wants to help or remembers how. Good luck to you and GOD BLESS

Garry

Garry,
I'm wondering the same thing; maybe we too have a control with files deleted that it would require in order for the "conversational" side to function. I've been told to locate and purchase the Hyundai manuals for the "Hi-Trol" features for the control. Supposedly, it will all "click" at that point and things be obvious at that point. I've tried several different approaches to sending programs written offline (Fusion-360) to the control via RS-232 port to no avail. In all fairness, this could be a matter of settings as well as parameter changes, in a combination yet achieved. This was the case for YEARS with my "M" series Mazaks in my attempt to find a USB to RS-232 device that actually worked, and there are MANY that simply DO NOT; contrary to their claims.
I've also tried to find someone local, even semi-local, that had knowledge of the control to come in and "show us the ropes" as well. We were essentially at their mercy regarding an hourly fee or set dollar figure; no arguments here. It didn't seem to be a matter of there being a lack of individuals willing to help, but a lack of individuals in our area (the small percentage I could reach out to) with knowledge of the control itself. I'd still be glad to find someone able and willing; it's here everyday anyway. ;)
It would be WONDERFUL if the machine could indeed be fully utilized as it is in AMAZING mechanical condition. The previous owners undoubtedly had a top notch preventative maintenance program. The spindle, as well as both axes, are absolutely whisper quiet. Turret shows no slop; indexes quietly without any visible "extension sag" often found in machines with high usage or abuse. It is just a wonderful example of a simple two axis turning center having the capacity it possesses. Such a shame that the control, for whatever the reason, is SO inhibiting. With a good ole Mitsubishi (with Mazatrol, of course) from the same vintage been on it; We'd run it DAILY.
In the event I find someone that'll clue me in, or I stumble upon a method to the madness; I'll certainly let you know. If nothing else, I'll at least, post response here on the forum and we can make arrangements to discuss at length afterwards. Holla at me if you come across any info on your end. Good luck to you as well; may the Force be with you.

Kind regards,
Mike Ward.
(336)-672-1815 (Office)
(336)-521-1829 (Mobile)

Mike if you need any info on the manuals we have them for the HIT 15 S I would assume the Siemens Sinumerik 840c is the same ,just let me know maybe if one of us gets ours going we could help the other,I kept thinking we will get around the corner on this and it would be easy.because it looks real simple .I thought my cnc man was just not wanting to mess with it at first because he is partial to the fanuc .But after I started to get my head in it i realized real fast he was trying real had .We had to make some small tapered SS parts ,We wound up doing in a manual lathe with the compound .it would have been a breeze in the cnc we have 3 ,our clausing is throwing a spindle fault alarm and the other 2 are the HIT 15S.

Garry,
That is what I had thought as well. I was later told that the machine originally came with both, Siemens 840C manuals as well as manuals from Hyundai, to include as many as three regarding the "Hi-Trol" programming system. The only individual I spoke with with significant knowledge of both, Siemens 840C (Hyundai Hi-Trol) and the Mitsubishi Meldas (Mazak Mazatrol), indicated that they were eerily similar; right down to auto tool measurement and WPC setting. The Hyundai HiT-30S deserves to be utilized; you've reignited a spark in me to make use of the machine.
I'm going to obtain said manuals, one way or another, from Hyundai if need be. Once I get this under my belt, I'll help you get yours up and making chips; this isn't an empty offer. I love to travel anyway, if you wouldn't mind a weekend visit (so that my guys don't work themselves to death in my absence), I'd be happy to pop down and we could get this resolved. Shoot me a contact number to my mobile number or gimme a call at the shop and we'll discuss making this happen. We've both got machines that could be making us money and they're not, for all the wrong reasons; lets fix this.......

Mike.

Mike I'll call you tomorrow when I can get to the machine and power it up ,I'm sick of machines setting around unused with so much potential.