Questions on adding rigid tapping....

We are working on a P1H from 1995. It doesn't have rigid tapping, but we do have the encoder and bracket. Anybody have the wiring diagram for hooking up the encoder? We have the plug on the head, that has the orient sensor wiring in it now, and it has all the other wires for the encoder, and the other end goes to Com2 on the computer box, which then has a ribbon cable that goes to P6 connector on the X axis card.

Also, what parameters need changing and to what once we have the encoder installed? I'll call Milltronics tomorrow as we still need the spindle pulley and a belt, but I thought I would ask here also.

Thanks!

Following this, I'm curious as well. I have a bunch of books with wiring diagrams, so I'll go dig and see if I happen to have the one for rigid tapping.

I have the manual scanned but can't upload it here right now. I'll work on that later on, need to host elsewhere because the file is too large for this forum.

I have some wiring diagrams, but the partner 1 version I have is for the CSM spindle drive and we definitely don't have that. It also doesn't have the actual pin numbers at the connector up on the head. We can find the labels for at Com2, and I suppose we can continuity check to figure out which pin on the connector is supposed to be A+, A-, and so on. I'm hoping that Milltronics will have a wiring diagram for this machine as it seems to be an oddball, it has a 10,000 rpm spindle, a Yaskawa V1000 VFD, and Emerson AC Servo drives and Parker AC servos. All the wiring info I can find is for DC servos and Servo Dynamics (Fenner) drives.

Page 7 is same as my paper manual I purchased from Milltronics P1H by serial number but they sent me a non CSM spidle electrical paper manual.

From older posts in past I dont think a parameter change is needed other than encoder pulse settings and fudge factor.

do a rigid tap search for the fudge factor on forum.

Thank you, that makes a lot more sense than the other diagrams I had. As for the encoder count, what value do you use, I know it's a 500 count encoder, but what value is inserted for the count? Is the fudge factor an actual parameter? I'll search the forum for that one....

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Originally Posted by Brian L

Thank you, that makes a lot more sense than the other diagrams I had. As for the encoder count, what value do you use, I know it's a 500 count encoder, but what value is inserted for the count? Is the fudge factor an actual parameter? I'll search the forum for that one....

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2000, Sporty bob stated in this post https://www.cnczone.com/forums/millt...anded-rpm.html post #26 that fudge factor is only effective on C7 controls

How quickly does your spindle come up to speed? How fast does it reverse speed? Would it be practical for you to use TC tapping? I run TC tapping on my "hobby" grade mills and it works fine. The hard part was modifying my CAM software to generate a good "drilling" operation. I picked an RPM inside the edge my power band and adjusted my signal voltage so it was dead on at that speed. I do just about all my tapping at that RPM. I tap in high gear in aluminum, and low gear in most steels and it works just fine. Once I had a template that worked inside the power requirement range of the mill I just copied it and adjust the increment for all my most commonly used tap pitches. Now I just apply the template (style) I need to the operation and move on to the next one. I've even done blind holes when drilled to have a few threads extra depth clearance, and after doing some test cuts to see how much the maximum over travel was during reversals. It will probably never be as good as rigid tapping and I tap at a pretty low RPM, but it works. I could tap faster and get further into the power band, but even this is far superior to walking the finished work piece over to the drill press an tapping with the tapping head. (I have two drill presses with "permanently" mounted tapping heads and my two most commonly used taps loaded.)

RL, Thanks for the 2000, kind of what I expected for a 500 count encoder.

Bob, as for using a T&C, I use them on my Milltronics knee mill as it doesn't have the possibility of rigid tap, at least not easily, so I'm familiar with them and use them a lot. This new (old) machine has everything there for rigid tap, so if we can hook it up and have it working, it will be cheaper than buying a T&C holder and all the associated tap adapters to fit the sizes we need.

Hi everyone, I'm Chris, Brian's son, and the proud owner of the P1. Really happy with the machine, making great parts already - great finishes, good accuracy and repeatability, machine runs really well. I've even taken a couple parts to work to inspect (I'm a QC Inspector at an aerospace machine shop at my day job and all of my good inspection tools are there) and I'm getting interpolated circles under .001" roundness. Haven't had time to throw anything on the CMM yet but I'll get around to it at some point.

So, as my dad said, the current project is adding rigid tapping to the machine. I have the encoder, bought used on Ebay, but p/n matches the manual (we bought one from milltronics, specific for this machine) and it looks to have actually come from a partner 1. It already had the right pulley and mounting bracket installed. I have all of the other parts needed for the install also. As of now I have the encoder wired but not mounted/installed. I'm trying to make sure it works, since it's used, before I pull the motor, pulleys, etc. I have it wired per the manual, by I/O, not color (they dont all match color). I have ~4.8v across 5v+ and ground leads, and I'm getting alternating 0 - 4.8v from A+ to gnd, A-, B+, B- as I slowly rotate the encoder. Also I can find the marker on the Z+ and Z-. All seems to be working as advertised as best I can tell with just my DMM, I dont have a scope so that's about all I can check as far as the encoder goes. I have changed the spindle encoder PPU in the parameters to 2000 per the above post (thank you for the info). The wire bundle from the head of the machine where the encoder is hooked up runs to com2 on the card cage. From there a ribbon cable to p6 on the board. All seems to be hooked up properly, and I reseated the connections to be sure. As of now I get no indication that the controller is seeing the encoder. When I rotate it by hand I get no change on the display, just 0 rpm or whatever the last commanded rpm was. The machine was restarted after the parameter change, and I also ran a jumper from the mounting bracket of the encoder to the casting of the head in case the case needs to be grounded (I was a helicopter mechanic for many years and chassis grounds are used often). My dad has spoken with both milltronics and Sportybob, and everyone seems to be in agreement the all I needed to change was the PPU in the control and the machine should be "looking" for the signal from the encoder. Does anyone have any other ideas?

Sorry for the long winded post, just trying to give all the info I can. I don't want to be that guy "I have a mill, and it doesn't work, how do I fix it?"

Thanks in advance for any help and for all the info already in this thread and all I've received over the years of lurking on this site.

Chris

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Does anybody know where on the diagnostics pages we should be seeing the index pulse of the encoder showing up? I know where the X,Y, and Z axis pulses show up, not sure where the spindle encoder one is.

I would check the pulses at the P6 connector with your voltmeter to rule out ribbon cable issues.

On my P1H it has an CSM spindle and the PPU setting is different but it uses a resolver to simulate encoder It also has parity settings for com 2, which I dont think is a factor

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Originally Posted by rl49

I would check the pulses at the P6 connector with your voltmeter to rule out ribbon cable issues.

On my P1H it has an CSM spindle and the PPU setting is different but it uses a resolver to simulate encoder It also has parity settings for com 2, which I dont think is a factor

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I haven't checked the pulses at the ribbon cable, but I did check continuity on both ends of it, and both ends of the cable that runs from the com2 port up to the top of the head where the encoder plugs in. Also checked from the board end of the ribbon cable (unplugged from the board) to the back side of the db9 connector at com2 to make sure the actual db9 connector is making good contact. Also checked the p6 connector on the board to the soldier connections on the board itself. This is all just continuity checks since I'm not jumping up and down at the idea of sticking my meter lead on the back of the board at the soldier joints while power is on to check the voltages/pulses. I would hate to accidentally short something out since those pins are close together. I do have pulses and voltage up at the connector at the top of the head, on both sides of the connector. I also have a full set of spare cards, so I tried swapping out the x-axis (after verifying that it's exactly the same as the original). No change there.

I did see the com port settings in the parameters, they were set different than what my original parameter sheet had, tried both, no change. I did restart between changes. Both of mine were different than yours, so I'll give that a shot too. Thanks for posting those up.

Since the encoder itself SEEMS to be working as it's supposed to, and it's easy enough to change with the head put together, I decided to go ahead and work on getting it installed last night. Got the head all apart, but the drive pulley seems stuck on the spindle. All set screws are loose, and it won't budge. I believe its aluminum, so I have to be fairly gentle with it as I dont want to damage it. Tried pb blaster and warmed it up with the heat gun, no luck. Does anyone know, is it supposed to be a press fit? I wouldn't think so but who knows. Could just be dissimilar metals and 24 years of being in the same spot.

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as a last check I would look at bios settings in motherboard to ensure its not fighting the C5 x card for control of com2 serial port. I have experienced issues with other dos based software mainly serial based fuel management software as in the bios com 2 was enabled on the add on io card. Do you have a sbc and back-plane setup or an integrated mother board?

Might have ti use a propane torch or map gas to free up I purchased pulley to do same with my P1E but have the P1H which has rigid taping that works well and has 45 inch x travel so I haven't gone any further on that P1E project

Well... SUCCESS!!! Got the pulley off this morning with a helpful reminder from my dad (BrianL) that sometimes they use two setscrews in the same hole. Got the encoder pulley mounted on the spindle, mounted the encoder, and adjusted all of the pulleys to get the drive belts aligned. Made sure the encoder belt was tracking right and put everything back together. I thought it wasn't going to work and we still needed to figure out why the control wasn't "seeing" the encoder. This was based on some other threads I have read that said when you turn the spindle by hand you should see an RPM reading on the screen. I don't see that. All I get is zero or the last commanded rpm. When the spindle is on the rpm doesn't fluctuate at all, which I was under the impression it would a few rpm based on what the spindle was actually turning. Anyway, my dad said let's just try it and see what happens, so I did a quick G88 program and ran it in air and it looked good. So I tried in a piece of wood and it worked! And then... aluminum! Worked twice there too!!! Now we just have to do some testing to see how it does on depth when we do a blind hole, these were all through of course. Really excited that I got this working (with lots of help from everyone), and all for about ~$100 worth of parts and lots of time.

Thank you EVERYONE for all the help, suggestions, and advise! On to the next project!

Chris

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Good question about thread depth... I've never used rigid tapping, so have no experience. So, when you drill say a 1/4-20 hole .46 deep to the minor diameter shoulder, then you tell it to run the tap to Z-.46, will it hit that depth on the nose, or overshoot? With Tension and Compression tapping that I do, I might call Z-.35 at 1000rpm with .8 seconds of dwell for the tap to reverse, so the tap overshoots the .35 and taps pretty close to the -.46 depth I was looking for.

Does the rigid tapping take into account the time to reverse the spindle? Does it start slowing at say Z-.4 and be reversing by the time it hits z-.46? How close to the depth of a blind hole can we program?

I haven't had to do many blind hole rigid tapping almost all my experience has been with thru hole, I would suggest to experiment with wax or aluminum to dial in parameters, also do search on rigid tap issues on forum for vfd settings and parameter settings for issues.