Help need mmachine is crazy!!!

Hello,

I need some help from you to see if i put my machine working.

It's a arrow 750 with kollmorgen drives

It's giving me the alarm 39-35 spindle not up to speed.

If i put up to 370 rpm it turns ok and i have checked the spindle rpm drift and it's only 2 rpm out!
Above that it does not turn and after some seconds gives me that alarm.

What i have checked:

Relays- All good even Cr22 cr_spdl_spd, It Have 24v also.

I opened the psr and the vds5.

On psr i found one track coming from the La signal broken and repair it and now it's ok.

On the vds5 i didn't found anything and i made the cable to conect to pc but my computers are too modern to install motion link plus( i'm waiting to find some friend with a old pc)

I also check the thermosthat at both psr and vds5 and both are ok.

Checked all the wirings comming from the C8 plug and are all ok.


I don't know were to search more!

Do you guys have any idea?

The psr gives red light fault when the error appears.

But if i turn off the machine and on it's all ok and up to 370rpm it runs ok.

I have a work that i need to finish and i only have this machine!

Hope you guys can help.

Thanks

It's the power supply, put voltmeter on dc bus and start the spindle s3000, see if it drops below 290v.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by tspiszak

It's the power supply, put voltmeter on dc bus and start the spindle s3000, see if it drops below 290v.


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I tested it today and i have always 300-310V

When at 300rpm it turns and the bus have around 800v on PSU and on vfs5 i have a variable value is that normal? But at this speed everything runs ok

Above that it does not turn and give the alarm,


Hope someone could help me.
I also changed all the relays and concactors and is everything ok.

Where do you have 800V? It's not normal. The drop of volts only occurs when spindle accelerate, 2 people needed to test it.

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Hi have 800v+/- when testing with the multimeter and connectors(+/-) on bus+ an bus - and machine running at 300rpm.
At the moment it's pressed the start it drpos to 300 but then increases to the above value.
with spindle stoped i have 300-310.

I don't get it, 1st you say 800v then 310v when spindle stopped. Multimeter set on dc measure?
Make a video. Put it on YouTube.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by tspiszak

I don't get it, 1st you say 800v then 310v when spindle stopped. Multimeter set on dc measure?
Make a video. Put it on YouTube.

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Yes it's that it's not allways the 310v when the spindle start it increases the voltage. I will try to do a video tomorrow.

I have a pc with windows 98 now working i'm trying to install the motion link

Hello,
I did some more tests today.

I could connect motionlink plus to it and it give me error 14 ( bus High or low voltage).

I think it's the power supply.
What component could be causing this in the power supply? I have another broken psu for spares and could have the components good.

I send 3 videos.
1- the machine is only one and measuring 315VDC
2- The machine is running at 300rpm and reading also around 315vdc
3. We press the start button to run at 1000rpm and the machine gives me the alarm 39-35 and also the error 14 at motionlink software.

In the video you could also see testing the bus in AC and gives me 690 +/- VAC It think it should give near 315 also?

Hope someone can help. Thanks

https://youtu.be/-jOR9zsfud8

https://youtu.be/qpjdBV8EU_w

https://youtu.be/KeCUGEBCmg8

Anybodody have one ideia what could be broken in the psu ?

I can't help you, looks like power supply holds the voltage, so maybe vds5 is faulty. You need to either send them both to get checked, or buy another vds and swap.
When my machine had similar problem, the volts dropped to 250, it was a logic board in psr4.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by tspiszak

I can't help you, looks like power supply holds the voltage, so maybe vds5 is faulty. You need to either send them both to get checked, or buy another vds and swap.
When my machine had similar problem, the volts dropped to 250, it was a logic board in psr4.


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Agreed. Like I replied in my emails, 99% probability it is the firing circuit not turning on the SCR input gates fully.

Since you are doing videos, move your video up some so it also shows the fault led on the VFS5 AND the meter. As I said, can you set y our meter to max/min after hooking it up?
THEN do 1000rpm faulting start. You will likely capture the dc bus droop down to under 250vdc to confirm the issue is input gates on SCRs not turning on fully so not full amps available from psr.

Even if not max/min on meter, show fault led on vfs5 and meter and tell it to start. let us know somehow EXACTLY when you tell it to start (I couldnot understand Portegues)... Then we see if fault happens during the accel (expect it around 500rpm in accel range on way up)...

Also the dc bus capacitors wear out; your psr is probably 30 years old! without good capacitors, the dc bus can droop between each rectified pulse and thus also fault on err14 bus lo voltage.

as for your 600vac readings, forget that! You are just seeing the 1000vdc noise spikes caused by PWM in drive! There is no meaningful information in measuring AC on dc bus, or on motor leads themselves.

Cool to hear you were test pilot & flight engineer in Arizona!! This is why your english IS so good! Good luck with your new machine shop business!

You say this is replacement psr4/5 and you have the original 'broken' one: what was broken on the original one? If you tell us perhaps we can recommend how to make one good one out of the two?

Thank you both.
Mike, i checked the scr and they are not good, replaced them today. I also changed some bad diods and a regulator, 3 transistors that were not good.
I checked also, as you mention the capacitors and both were low on capacitance, replaced also them and i didn't had time to install it again.
I will test it tomorrow and advise if i made any progress.

The last psu had a fire, it didn't have a fan! Someone decided that it was there from the factory just to make some wheight????

But some parts are good( i think) it only burn the board that supports the bus bars a little.

Fingers crossed that it's already repaired. Tomorrow at the end of the day i will install it and it will work( I need to believe that ).

thanks again, both for your help.

Hi,
tested it today, it's better after replaced those parts, now i can go up to 3000rpm but above that not.
i tested and confirms what you both said, it drops the voltage below 290vdc.
i had only changed the scr's do you guys think that could be also the igbt?
I also installed another condenser.
I will buy a new igbt tomorrow and maybe on friday test it again.

what you guys think?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by andrecorreia

Hello,

I need some help from you to see if i put my machine working.

It's a arrow 750 with kollmorgen drives

It's giving me the alarm 39-35 spindle not up to speed.

If i put up to 370 rpm it turns ok and i have checked the spindle rpm drift and it's only 2 rpm out!
Above that it does not turn and after some seconds gives me that alarm.

What i have checked:

Relays- All good even Cr22 cr_spdl_spd, It Have 24v also.

I opened the psr and the vds5.

On psr i found one track coming from the La signal broken and repair it and now it's ok.

On the vds5 i didn't found anything and i made the cable to conect to pc but my computers are too modern to install motion link plus( i'm waiting to find some friend with a old pc)

I also check the thermosthat at both psr and vds5 and both are ok.

Checked all the wirings comming from the C8 plug and are all ok.


I don't know were to search more!

Do you guys have any idea?

The psr gives red light fault when the error appears.

But if i turn off the machine and on it's all ok and up to 370rpm it runs ok.

I have a work that i need to finish and i only have this machine!

Hope you guys can help.

Thanks

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TSp... is correct! you have a defective psr4/5 PSU unit! Your VFS5 is fine - do not break it! leave it alone!

100% sure. youur psr4/5 is not turning on gates fully on the SCRs. common problem.

if your old burned psr4/5 has good control board in it, swap that into this one!!!

otherwise u must send the psr into someone like us to repair it or buy another one.

No. Igbt is brake only. Nothing to do with it!

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Check this. Attachment 412856

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Hello everyone,

The machine is working like new.

I could manage to fix myself the board, it had some condensers and some comparators not good and it's running like a ferrari.

I'm now thinking to build some new pcb boards and all the components to have in stock for replacement to help people with the same problems.

My error was the number 14.

Thanks Mike and Tspizak for helping diagnose the source of the problem.

SOLVED!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by andrecorreia

Hello everyone,

The machine is working like new.

I could manage to fix myself the board, it had some condensers and some comparators not good and it's running like a ferrari.

I'm now thinking to build some new pcb boards and all the components to have in stock for replacement to help people with the same problems.

My error was the number 14.

Thanks Mike and Tspizak for helping diagnose the source of the problem.

SOLVED!!!

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Great job andrecorreia! Nice idea!

I am just sorry it is only running like a ferrari; I was hoping it would be like a bugatti! :)

I'll be your customer, I have one prs that drops voltage on acceleration, and won't go above 400rpm. Spindle not up to speed errors.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by tspiszak

I'll be your customer, I have one prs that drops voltage on acceleration, and won't go above 400rpm. Spindle not up to speed errors.

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We are developing the new card. I think in one month i could test it on my machine to see if it runs ok or not ;) I advise you if everything goes ok