Re: Ventilators Machining
Hello again group, I have contacted the New York governor's office regarding this topic. I'm certain there will be individual parts that can be CNC'd and will post again regarding their response(s). This likely is the quickest source for individual parts that were already needed. Best regards, Mike Kendall
Re: Ventilators Machining
Quote:
Originally Posted by
KE6CVH
Hello again group, I have contacted the New York governor's office regarding this topic. I'm certain there will be individual parts that can be CNC'd and will post again regarding their response(s). This likely is the quickest source for individual parts that were already needed. Best regards, Mike Kendall
Unless you are certified to manufacture medical equipment you have no show of making such parts, even your shop has to be certified to comply, and everything you use to make the parts, ventilators for home use may be a different story but for Hospital use it is not going to happen, good thought and way of helping
Re: Ventilators Machining
There should be contingency plans in place for the production of this type life saving equipment. The World got caught flat-footed.
Re: Ventilators Machining
I thought I read that they were talking to the auto manufacturers about this.
Re: Ventilators Machining
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ger21
I thought I read that they were talking to the auto manufacturers about this.
Yes they are.
Atm in u.k. it looks like the F1 teams and JCB that are based here will likely take on contracts.
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Re: Ventilators Machining
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dazp1976
Yes they are.
Atm in u.k. it looks like the F1 teams and JCB that are based here will likely take on contracts.
If you know what you are looking at when you talk about ventilators 95% of all the parts are injection molded or extruded, the few parts that are machined could be made in the thousands in one shop with turning centers so I don't believe that the machining side is a problem, the molding side would be the hold up as molds would have to be made to help with what is already being used
The rest of the parts are electronic so I doubt that any F1 teams could do anything that any good normal manufacturer in this field can do
If you want a Ventilator look on Ebay you can buy what ever you want from $60 to $27,000.00 the only shortage problem is caused by the people in panic mode
Here are some of the main parts that make up most Ventilators
Re: Ventilators Machining
Hello group, Great feed back. For injection molding that is interesting. That should be able to be done really really fast.....I read one article that said Italy demanded their producer to be making them four fold of what previously was done. If i remember correctly that would bring them to something like 1,200 plus a month. There was an article for a hacker with a block diagram for a pandemic ventilator. This page is about 2017 from memory. They talk about how it was done simpler in the 50's. With the approval for n95 masks I would think a simpler and more universal (but still approved) ventilator would be allowed as long as testing was performed. But with plastic injection molded parts why are they so difficult to make in the first place? It just doesn't add up. If it is the electronics that should not be a show stopper either. USA still has electronic manufacturing capability for the defense industry as well as some other still being done. There are micro controller programmers until now (I know one who has run a company since the 70's). Was watching the news and they say there is potential for cases to climb into the 70k region next week in NY state. That is when everything is going to become like Italy. BTW China reported they are going to gift 40 ventilators to Italy along with their team of 300 people. That certainly is not much. They should be a little more transparent and use a more cooperative approach for these ventilators being made in a hurry in USA. Face masks, gowns etc they are tackling but the ventilators are not giving me a warm fuzzy that is for certain. Best regards, Mike
Re: Ventilators Machining
Hi,
I applaud your effort to 'roll up up your sleeves and get stuck in' however there is still the nagging feeling that lack of certification
will come back to haunt us.
Even with proper certified ventilators people are still dying.
When the dust settles and it transpires that some poor individual died when a homemade ventilator was used the health worker who fitted
it is in big trouble. The defense 'that was all that was left' will not stop lawyers from hauling them over the coals. Nor either will the defense
'but it was not the ventilator that caused this persons death'.
Maybe we should kill off all the lawyers now as a sort of pre-emptive strike! Poor taste humour aside, how would you feel about having a homemade
ventilator applied to yourself or your wife or daughter or mother or....
Craig
Re: Ventilators Machining
Depends on what the alternative is....
Re: Ventilators Machining
Quote:
Originally Posted by
KE6CVH
Hello group, Great feed back. For injection molding that is interesting. That should be able to be done really really fast.....I read one article that said Italy demanded their producer to be making them four fold of what previously was done. If i remember correctly that would bring them to something like 1,200 plus a month. There was an article for a hacker with a block diagram for a pandemic ventilator. This page is about 2017 from memory. They talk about how it was done simpler in the 50's. With the approval for n95 masks I would think a simpler and more universal (but still approved) ventilator would be allowed as long as testing was performed. But with plastic injection molded parts why are they so difficult to make in the first place? It just doesn't add up. If it is the electronics that should not be a show stopper either. USA still has electronic manufacturing capability for the defense industry as well as some other still being done. There are micro controller programmers until now (I know one who has run a company since the 70's). Was watching the news and they say there is potential for cases to climb into the 70k region next week in NY state. That is when everything is going to become like Italy. BTW China reported they are going to gift 40 ventilators to Italy along with their team of 300 people. That certainly is not much. They should be a little more transparent and use a more cooperative approach for these ventilators being made in a hurry in USA. Face masks, gowns etc they are tackling but the ventilators are not giving me a warm fuzzy that is for certain. Best regards, Mike
Nothing is difficult to make it's time to get something like this into production, the number of molds needed could take 6 months to get a complete set of parts up and running
Electronics that part is basic, it's the software that the different manufacturers have developed, this is not going to be available, I know DMM's owner ( yes that's the Ac servo company DMM | AC SERVO DRIVE | AC SERVO MOTOR | ROTARY ENCODER ) developed for one of these main Ventilator manufacturer's, an a logarithm that took at least 2 years in developing it
I think there is more to this shortage than we can see, if you can still buy Ventilators as of yesterday on Ebay there is not a shortage, I think the gowns face masks and protective gear the doctors need is where the shortage is, 3M has it's manufacturing scaled up for this as do any other mask and gown manufacturer's
Not everyone needs a Ventilator so 40 hospital level Ventilators is a lot, that's around $1.2 million worth
I think the logistics will be the biggest problems moving what is needed to where it is needed
Re: Ventilators Machining
Here is a good Video on Ventilators and how they work
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gk_Qf-JAL84
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Re: Ventilators Machining
Has everyone forgot about the regular Flu this is a disaster as well and it does not get this much attention here is the regular Flu data just for the USA this year there is over 10,000 deaths from it, they call it the quiet deaths
Re: Ventilators Machining
Hi,
its not so much that we have forgotten but rather that we hope that COVID19 does not overtake influenza.
Craig
Re: Ventilators Machining
If people really follow the social distancing measures advised by the health authorities, it should greatly reduce transmission of the regular seasonal flu and cold viruses as well as the novel coronavirus.
Re: Ventilators Machining
Great thread. It's nice to see that our community is also trying to help in these difficult times.:idea:
I would appreciate if you could keep us up to date with these projects here. Perhaps we can then include the topic in our next CNCzone and IndustryArena newsletter to generate more attention.
Re: Ventilators Machining
It's starting to look like ventilators aren't really that good for Covid patients, and they're not really susceptible to being supplied by non-approved sources like us anyway. But what about PAPR respirators - the ones that use an air pump to pull air through a really tight filter to supply clean air? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powere...ing_respirator It seems like these are also in short supply, and might be susceptible to innovative redesigning, using 3D printed, CNC machined or molded parts.
Re: Ventilators Machining
Hi,
it seems that those of us lucky enough to live in the Western world with advanced health facilites have just
dodged a bullet and a chronic shortage of respirators has not developed.
It would be nice to think our community could help in the manufacture of such devices but medical equipment is subject
to the strictest and highest manufacturing standards, very similar to aircraft standards. Our community could indeed help
but to achieve such standards in the time frame available to us is unlikely in the extreme.
My concern is what is happening in populous countries that have a far less developed public health system and/or have
a significant poverty problem which all but precludes effective social distancing practices. We might anticipate very widespread
infection rates and high mortality rates.
Not withstanding the efforts of medical people, governments and even concerned individuals like our own community this virus
is set to render all efforts a mere footnote in history.
Craig
Re: Ventilators Machining
Quote:
it seems that those of us lucky enough to live in the Western world with advanced health facilites have just
dodged a bullet and a chronic shortage of respirators has not developed.
I just read that 88% of people on ventilators in a large NY hospital did not survive. Nobody's dodged any bullets.
Reports are coming out that Covid-19 is turning out to be much more than just a respiratory disease.
Re: Ventilators Machining
Hi,
Quote:
I just read that 88% of people on ventilators in a large NY hospital did not survive. Nobody's dodged any bullets.
No, for anyone on a ventilator the odds are badly against their survival. Only a fortnight or so ago New York were scrambling for ventilators
anticipating the need for them. Fortunately beacause of the social distancing and lockdown the numbers of ventilators required has not
been as bad as it might have been, and that I consider as 'dodging a bullet' as scant a hope against the number of people who have not
made it.
Craig