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Anyone considering the centroid Acorn instead of path pilot?
Hello All:
I know a bunch of us are interested in getting away from Mach 3 to something more reliable. I was considering going with Path Pilot I thought the decision was made. A friend of mine who has a Centroid control on his mill told me about the acorn. It certainly looks interesting. My friend is completely happy with his centroid. He is new to cnc but is a talented machinist. The biggest possible advantage I can see to the Acorn over Path Pilot is centroid actually wants us to use their control. Tormach seems to not want us to.
For Ray is their any reason my power draw bar would not work with the acorn?
The only thing holding me back from ordering an acorn is I do not know if it will work or not with my pendant. I do not want to give up the rotary mpg.
Thanks
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Re: Anyone considering the centroid Acorn instead of path pilot?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
upnorth
Hello All:
For Ray is their any reason my power draw bar would not work with the acorn?
The PDB neither knows nor cares what software you are using. The ATC is another matter entirely...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
upnorth
Hello All:
The only thing holding me back from ordering an acorn is I do not know if it will work or not with my pendant. I do not want to give up the rotary mpg.
Pendants are inherently software-dependent, so your pendant will certainly NOT work with the Acorn, unless the pendant manufacturer specifically supports it. I would be absolutely amazed if they did...
Regards,
Ray L.
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Re: Anyone considering the centroid Acorn instead of path pilot?
I'm considering switching to the Acorn, after I move my shop.
The one thing though, is that MACH3 has been decent to me. It really hasn't caused a huge headache for me. Having said that, when I finally do make my switch to the new shop. I think the Acorn is going to happen, I like the interface and the separate built-in processor for G-Code processing. I also like the fact that Centroid, as you mentioned, wants us and has developed this hardware for this class of machine.
Regards,
-Jason
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Re: Anyone considering the centroid Acorn instead of path pilot?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SpeedsCustom
I'm considering switching to the Acorn, after I move my shop.
The one thing though, is that MACH3 has been decent to me. It really hasn't caused a huge headache for me. Having said that, when I finally do make my switch to the new shop. I think the Acorn is going to happen, I like the interface and the separate built-in processor for G-Code processing. I also like the fact that Centroid, as you mentioned, wants us and has developed this hardware for this class of machine.
Regards,
-Jason
I will be very interested in hearing about your experience if you do this. The Acorn looks really good to me, except.... I'd probably need the "Ultimate" software ($499!) as my g-code files often run 10+Mbytes, and I'd want the extended probing capabilities. Otherwise, it looks really good.
Regards,
Ray L.
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Re: Anyone considering the centroid Acorn instead of path pilot?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SpeedsCustom
I'm considering switching to the Acorn, after I move my shop.
The one thing though, is that MACH3 has been decent to me. It really hasn't caused a huge headache for me. Having said that, when I finally do make my switch to the new shop. I think the Acorn is going to happen, I like the interface and the separate built-in processor for G-Code processing. I also like the fact that Centroid, as you mentioned, wants us and has developed this hardware for this class of machine.
Regards,
-Jason
For whatever reason I had little luck with Mach 3. It would do totally bizarre things at times. Worst was when tool offsets were not applied randomly. One time after running about 10 parts with the exact same G code. Just changing the blank and typing go. It went to position 0,0,0 it then lifted up and moved over to the right side of the vise and ran the g code. I think maybe mach runs correctly on certain installations but it not reliable on others. It really had me second guessing when I was learning.
Looks like Ray was right about the vista cnc pendant. Their tech support got back to me and this is what they said "Our pendant work directly with CNC application (software). Currently our pendants work with Mach3, Mach4, LinuxCNC, UCCNC software.
It looks like Acorn CNC board only works with Acorn Centroid CNC software. P1A-S does not support the Centroid acorn control software and will not work with Acorn CNC board.
In the future, when Centroid software supports USB external MPG device, we will add our pendants to work with Centroid CNC."
Might work in the future but not now. I'm going to keep Mach 3 on the lathe so I can still use the pendant. Now I need to figure out it anyone is using the Vista pendant with Path Pilot.
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Re: Anyone considering the centroid Acorn instead of path pilot?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
upnorth
For whatever reason I had little luck with Mach 3. It would do totally bizarre things at times. Worst was when tool offsets were not applied randomly. One time after running about 10 parts with the exact same G code. Just changing the blank and typing go. It went to position 0,0,0 it then lifted up and moved over to the right side of the vise and ran the g code. I think maybe mach runs correctly on certain installations but it not reliable on others. It really had me second guessing when I was learning.
Looks like Ray was right about the vista cnc pendant. Their tech support got back to me and this is what they said "Our pendant work directly with CNC application (software). Currently our pendants work with Mach3, Mach4, LinuxCNC, UCCNC software.
It looks like Acorn CNC board only works with Acorn Centroid CNC software. P1A-S does not support the Centroid acorn control software and will not work with Acorn CNC board.
In the future, when Centroid software supports USB external MPG device, we will add our pendants to work with Centroid CNC."
Might work in the future but not now. I'm going to keep Mach 3 on the lathe so I can still use the pendant. Now I need to figure out it anyone is using the Vista pendant with Path Pilot.
I will contribute more to this topic, but what about the MASSO controller? I don't think it has the same processing performance as the Centroid, but seems to have many available options alongside with NOT requiring a computer...
I still do like ACORN and am heavily considering it, my shop move is a process!
Lets keep the discussion going.
-Jason
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Re: Anyone considering the centroid Acorn instead of path pilot?
The Masso is interesting, though a bit pricey by hobbyist standards. One thing that would concern me is that it appears the ONLY way to get g-code into the controller is via "sneaker-net". i.e. - a USB stick. A network connection would be FAR better. I HATE USB sticks for moving g-code. It's also totally unknown how "open" it is. For example, if you want to add some custom peripheral (Maybe an ATC? Or Auto-oiler? Or custom pendant? Or even a custom probing function?), it's not at all clear how that could be accomplished, if it even can. Same goes for the Acorn. That's the nice thing about Mach3, UCCNC, PathPilot, and others - they are easily, and extensively, modifiable by the end-user.
Regards,
Ray L.
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Re: Anyone considering the centroid Acorn instead of path pilot?
I see The Centroid acorn now has a pendant available. Its a wireless one but it does have an MPG built in. Have any of you guys tried wireless control devices in a machine shop environment? I would have said no way in hell would I use a wireless anything to control something in my shop. Well I recently bought a wireless mouse and keyboard for the home computer. I took it into the shop and tried it out. It works perfectly. No issues. I think I'm still leaning towards pathpilot though.
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Re: Anyone considering the centroid Acorn instead of path pilot?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SCzEngrgGroup
The Masso is interesting, though a bit pricey by hobbyist standards. One thing that would concern me is that it appears the ONLY way to get g-code into the controller is via "sneaker-net". i.e. - a USB stick. A network connection would be FAR better. I HATE USB sticks for moving g-code. It's also totally unknown how "open" it is. For example, if you want to add some custom peripheral (Maybe an ATC? Or Auto-oiler? Or custom pendant? Or even a custom probing function?), it's not at all clear how that could be accomplished, if it even can. Same goes for the Acorn. That's the nice thing about Mach3, UCCNC, PathPilot, and others - they are easily, and extensively, modifiable by the end-user.
Regards,
Ray L.
Just finished the install / setup of a MASSO on Bridgeport BOSS. Yes currently USB stick is only option for gcode, and no way to edit code on fly but wireless networking coming soon via software update and install of esp8266 chip ($8).
The setup includes setting for lubrication / timer / etc - all user has to do is assign output port. Which is beyond easy. Probing is provided, once again - simply assign port. All pins for pendant are clearly labeled on support site - installing pendant of choice is pretty simple. Although IMO the Playstation controller option is better. Custom anything is pretty much doable - limited only by the user really. AND - they have fantastic support via website.
If building a CNC - MASSO is the way to go.
This video is pretty complete description of setup / use of the MASSO - it even configures steppers by moving specified distance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1wyRrGHNZQ
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Re: Anyone considering the centroid Acorn instead of path pilot?
Just a heads up for anyone considering the Centroid Acorn controller and software. Their introductory pricing ends Jan. 3rd 2018. Here is a link with more information. End to Acorn Introductory Pricing date is January 3rd 2018 - Centroid Community CNC Support Forum.
CJ
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Re: Anyone considering the centroid Acorn instead of path pilot?
Just got on board, bought 2 Acorn units and 2 Pro intercon setups for my mill and lathe. This looks like it may be the cats meow and a way to escape from Mach 3 or 4. The rigid tapping, encoder hookup, and having the on board controller running the g-code instead of the PC is what sold me. The intercom software (kind of like wizards) is pretty nice too but that will take some time to get a handle on it after mach 3. The nice thing is that you should still be able to use Mach 3 wizards as it runs industry standard G-code. Fingers crossed this should be a plus. I also read that Sheet Cam works using the mach2 processor. I don't have them installed yet as I just bought them and should be here after new years but I'm really jazzed as every time I run my stuff on Mach 3 I always get the pucker factor and really it's only failed me a few times. A few times is too many.
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Re: Anyone considering the centroid Acorn instead of path pilot?
I also have bought a Acorn and Pro lathe software. I'm expecting my Acorn to be delivered next week but have yet to convert my 14x40 lathe to CNC. I'll be using DMM servos and the guys at DMM have wiring schematics and are making some videos on the connections. The reviews that i've seen on the Acorn, plus the recommendations from some experienced CNC builders, made my choice to use the Acorn over the numerous other packages an easy one.
I'll post my opinions after i've hooked the Acorn up to the servos, but I'm expecting a positive experience.
-jason
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Re: Anyone considering the centroid Acorn instead of path pilot?
Hi Jason, I think we both made the right move for sure. I'm really excited about ti. A real CNC controller for our machines is what's needed. I've looked at everything as I'm sure you did and the big factor here is Centroid has been around in the USA for a long time. I think most of the other guys are really trying but they don't have the years and years of experience that Centroid does. I'm betting it's going to be awesome. I'm glad they decided to look at the home built market and jump in. My son has a CNC running Centroid in his shop and he really likes it.
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Re: Anyone considering the centroid Acorn instead of path pilot?
Has anyone tried the Acorn on a CRP plug and play system? I have the plug and play spindle too, so I think the analog output will control the VFD. I am concerned about the Tool setter probe though. I think it will run everything else okay.
Anyone researched it enough to figure that out?
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Re: Anyone considering the centroid Acorn instead of path pilot?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LeeWay
Has anyone tried the Acorn on a CRP plug and play system? I have the plug and play spindle too, so I think the analog output will control the VFD. I am concerned about the Tool setter probe though. I think it will run everything else okay.
Anyone researched it enough to figure that out?
Lee, just go to the Centroid Acorn forum and ask. The Centroid guys moderate it. I know they have inputs for the tool setters and part probes. It's pretty awesome.
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Re: Anyone considering the centroid Acorn instead of path pilot?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LeeWay
Has anyone tried the Acorn on a CRP plug and play system?
It will no longer be "plug and play". You may need to rewire the whole thing, as they use custom breakout boards ( I think) to connect to the Smoothstepper. I know a few people attempted to switch over to UCCNC, and it does require making some changes.
Basically, you'd take out the ESS and breakout boards, and wire everything direct to the Acorn.
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Re: Anyone considering the centroid Acorn instead of path pilot?
Thanks, Guys.
I did take a look at the CRP box yesterday. It basically has 4 individual lead shine drives. The motor side of those run direct through the panel to the motors. The control side uses a Smooth stepper BOB. That can simply be unplugged and the acorn wired in there. The limits and other inputs are on a BOB themselves. They attach through ribbon cables. I may need a BOB for a ribbon cable. The the spindle controls need to be wired to the Acorn. So mostly just straight point to point wiring. That I can handle. ;)
There is plenty of room inside for the additional PS and Acorn board especially once I remove the ESS and it's BOB.
It will need some testing of course, but it looks quite capable of doing what I need. I placed the order for the Acorn and the Pro software this AM.
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Re: Anyone considering the centroid Acorn instead of path pilot?
Here is why I’m going the Centroid Acorn route and a few of the draw backs I see:
My experience with Mach3 was mixed at best. I thought adding in an ESS would help. It didn’t. I’ve been following the discussions on converting to PathPilot and was going to go that route as I use Linux but wasn’t looking forward to the process of sorting out errors and editing hal and ini files. Though others here have done a great job and I’m sure with their help I could have made the change, my machine is not one of the ones that has been converted. I would very likely have needed a firmware update for the Mesa card as well. I was also put off by the apparent issues with the PathPilot 2.0 update.
Looking at the options out there the Centroid Acorn system seemed to be the one which offered the most straight forward conversion for me. My goal is to get back to milling parts ASAP, spending as little time as possible trouble shooting a new setup. I also like that the Centroid Acorn runs on modern PCs (actually requires one). I don’t like that it requires Win10. Win10 is the reason I switched to Linux. In this case I will install Win10, update it, then as Centroid recommends, isolate the PC from my network hopefully to never update Win10 again. A drawback to switching to Acorn is that I will not be able to use my VistaCNC pendant. I have read that there is a wireless pendant which will work with Acorn.
As others have pointed out Centroid has a 30 year history in the industry. That appeals to me. The Centroid Acorn forum appears to be very active and individuals with problems setting up or using Acorn seem to be getting the answers they need in short order. I also like that I can get factory support (for a price) if needed.
I’ll report on my experience with Acorn in a separate thread as I go through the install, setup and everyday use.
CJ
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Re: Anyone considering the centroid Acorn instead of path pilot?
So to clear up my understanding of Acorn, does it provide the functions of BoB and motor drives for step-dir motors?
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Re: Anyone considering the centroid Acorn instead of path pilot?
Not the motor drives, but it does calculate and deliver step and direction commands to the motor drives.
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Re: Anyone considering the centroid Acorn instead of path pilot?
You still need stepper drives, but you don't need a breakout board.
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Re: Anyone considering the centroid Acorn instead of path pilot?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kvom
So to clear up my understanding of Acorn, does it provide the functions of BoB and motor drives for step-dir motors?
Though it may not be completely accurate, I think of the Acorn board as a combination ESS and BOB. The Acorn has an on board CPU which handles motion control. Like the ESS it takes a load off of the PC CPU.
CJ
Sent from my XT1094 using Tapatalk
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Re: Anyone considering the centroid Acorn instead of path pilot?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kvom
So to clear up my understanding of Acorn, does it provide the functions of BoB and motor drives for step-dir motors?
The graphic on the Acorn page at the Centroid website doesn't show the drivers between the board and the stepper/servo motors. This could lead one to infer that the board replaces the drivers. It doesn't.
CJ
Sent from my XT1094 using Tapatalk
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Re: Anyone considering the centroid Acorn instead of path pilot?
So given that on my NM200, which has the BoB and drives mounted together, interfacing the Acorn would mean bypassing the BoB, wiring it to the drives, and also wiring the 0-10V spindle control to the Acorn. That said, maybe the BoB would just pass the step and dir signals through.
I'd still need a PC and the Centroid software.
Probably not a good choice for me given the relative ease of the PP hardware which was just a DB25 cable between the Mesa card and the BoB. Obviously the software integration took some effort, but that's more in my sweet spot than wiring. The components for the Torus are probably easier to work with then what I have. In any case I'm very satisfied with PP.
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Re: Anyone considering the centroid Acorn instead of path pilot?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kvom
So to clear up my understanding of Acorn, does it provide the functions of BoB and motor drives for step-dir motors?
Hi Kvon, Best way to get a handle on everything is to go to the www.http://centroidcncforum.com/ Just click on the Acorn forum when you get there.
There are videos there and a lot of info. You do need drivers for sure and it can hook up stepper or servos.
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Re: Anyone considering the centroid Acorn instead of path pilot?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Krenovian
The graphic on the Acorn page at the Centroid website doesn't show the drivers between the board and the stepper/servo motors. This could lead one to infer that the board replaces the drivers. It doesn't.
CJ
Sent from my XT1094 using Tapatalk
The reason they don't show the drivers is because they have pictures of Clearpath servos and their drivers are built in. It was kind of a mistake on their part in the ad picture.
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Re: Anyone considering the centroid Acorn instead of path pilot?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kvom
So given that on my NM200, which has the BoB and drives mounted together, interfacing the Acorn would mean bypassing the BoB, wiring it to the drives, and also wiring the 0-10V spindle control to the Acorn. That said, maybe the BoB would just pass the step and dir signals through.
I'd still need a PC and the Centroid software.
Probably not a good choice for me given the relative ease of the PP hardware which was just a DB25 cable between the Mesa card and the BoB. Obviously the software integration took some effort, but that's more in my sweet spot than wiring. The components for the Torus are probably easier to work with then what I have. In any case I'm very satisfied with PP.
Yes, you would bypass the NM200's BOB. The wiring from the drives, and the other input and output wiring going to and from the BOB would be connected to the Acorn board.
There is at least one discussion on the Centroid CNC Forum asking about using a BOB to pass the signals through to the drives. The recommendation was to bypass the BOB as going through it might work but would make it more difficult to trouble shoot any problems which might arise.
The Acorn board would provide the 0-10v signal to the VFD to control the spindle. Depending on your needs there are three levels of software available. There is a free version packaged with the Acorn kit.
If you already have a PP installation working for you I don't think there really is much of a reason to consider the Centroid Acorn platform. I'm comfortable with the wiring involved in going with Acorn as I gutted my NM145 and rebuilt it installing Shadowspawn's conversion, a CNC4PC BOB, and a Warp9 ESS, new VFD, and two different power supplies. The only parts which remain in the cabinet from the factory are the Leadshine drives and the transformer. I have little to no experience tweaking Linux related software so a PP conversion seems more daunting to me.
CJ
Sent from my XT1094 using Tapatalk
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Re: Anyone considering the centroid Acorn instead of path pilot?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Roadstercycle
The reason they don't show the drivers is because they have pictures of Clearpath servos and their drivers are built in. It was kind of a mistake on their part in the ad picture.
Thanks for clearing that up. It makes sense now. I thought it was odd that they would leave drivers out of the graphic.
CJ
Sent from my XT1094 using Tapatalk
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Re: Anyone considering the centroid Acorn instead of path pilot?
FWIW - I've just looked at the Acorn documentation in some detail, and see no reason it could not be fairly easily adapted to any Novakon machine. Duplicating the functionality of the off-the-shelf Novakon should be very straight-forward, and requires only some wiring changes. I would not try to keep the BOB. Just make new cables and wire the drives, spindle, limits, etc. directly to the Acorn, being careful to pay attention to signal levels, etc. The Acorn has a combination of 5V and 24V I/Os, so you must be careful how those signals are interfaced to the machine control signals, to avoid damage to either the Acorn or the machine.
The Acorn looks to me like a very nice industrial-level control, that, once properly setup, should be very robust and reliable. It also appears to be quite flexible, though is not as easy to customize as Mach3. Such is the cost of reliability.
Regards,
Ray L.
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Re: Anyone considering the centroid Acorn instead of path pilot?
I am happy with Path Pilot on the Pulsar and it also lacks the deep customization possibilities of Mach 3, however it runs the machine better, does not make tool change mistakes and does not forget where machine coordinates are.
ESS also does not run out of memory or loose communication.
That last one is why I choose to use Acorn on my CRP router. I did consider PP, but could not figure out how to do a slaved axis on it. I doubt doing it the conventional way would be possible. Maybe, but I did not dig very deep.
I basically used the Mesa card to bypass the ESS on the Pulsar. Path pilot instead of Mach 3 was a bonus.
The Acorn on the router for similar reasons.
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Re: Anyone considering the centroid Acorn instead of path pilot?
How is the Acorn working out so far compared to Mach3 for you lee
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Re: Anyone considering the centroid Acorn instead of path pilot?
They have not sent me any notice yet that they have received the order. So not quite as well. ;)
I imagine they are pretty swamped with the discount pricing coming to a close.
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Re: Anyone considering the centroid Acorn instead of path pilot?
I wish I ordered the kit before the price hike but still, a very compelling looking kit I plan to retrofit into my Torus Pro.
Regards,
-Jason
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Re: Anyone considering the centroid Acorn instead of path pilot?
I have the touch screen laptop and the BOB's for the ribbon cables I needed so just waiting on the good stuff now.
I haven't yet received any notice from them other than my Payment receipt, but I will shoot them over an inquiry sometime this weekend and hopefully hear something next week.
I will let you guys know when I do hear something.
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Re: Anyone considering the centroid Acorn instead of path pilot?
You may be waiting Lee, I have seen quite a few post this week of people ordering them. I just hope it is as good as what people have been saying it is.
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Re: Anyone considering the centroid Acorn instead of path pilot?
I'm probably going to put the order in myself shortly. My machine is ripped and torn apart and now seems suitable to undertake such a feat :)
-Jason
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Re: Anyone considering the centroid Acorn instead of path pilot?
I don't think they send any communication out until it is ready to be shipped. I ordered an Acorn on 12/17 (Sunday) and didn't hear anything back so I called on 12/22 (Friday) to check on the status and they said it was getting shipped out that day. The person on the phone said they were pretty busy and that was before the notice of the price change. That afternoon I received an email receipt with tracking number and it was in my hands by 12/27 (Wednesday). I later ordered the Mill Pro upgrade on 12/30 (Saturday) and received the license file in less than 3 hours!
It took me longer to make the DIN rail adapters for the Acorn and included 24VDC power supply and wire them in than it did to initially configure the software/control to work with my machine (Emco PC Mill 50). My machine isn't done yet so I haven't tested the control in anger but so far I am happy with it. I currently have it working with 3 limit switches, E-Stop, spindle VFD (forward, reverse, and analog speed), and 2 axis stepper motors via a G540 (haven't hooked up the x axis motor yet).
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Re: Anyone considering the centroid Acorn instead of path pilot?
I hope to very soon get my hands on an Acorn as well, which I will first install on the Pulsar. If it works as well as I expect, I will get another for the Torus Pro. I think the conversion will be straight-forward. For testing, I will leave all the existing wiring in place, take an old BOB, and remove all the chips, etc. leaving only the connectors I'll then solder on wires to run from the connector on the no-longer-a-BOB to the Acorn. Once the Acorn is proven, it will be a simple matter to do a PCB to take the place of the no-longer-a-BOB to clean up the interfacing.
I've already figured out how to interface my ATC to the Acorn. In fact, I can use the same proprietary 4-wire interface I've been using with the KFlop on the Torus Pro! I've also figured out how to interface a custom pendant, and even a full machine control panel, and MPG to the Acorn.
It's a remarkably flexible device. I'll start on the conversion as soon as I can get my hands on the Acorn, and should have it fully functional, including rigid tapping, in about a day!
Regards,
Ray L.
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Re: Anyone considering the centroid Acorn instead of path pilot?
I did receive notice and the software key just before it arrived on Monday.
Haven't had any time to do anything with it.
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Re: Anyone considering the centroid Acorn instead of path pilot?
I'm still trying to decide between an acorn and path pilot. I have a friend who runs one of the higher end centroid control boards and he is very happy with it. Any one want to make a case for why one system is better than the other?