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Hello everyone,
I just recieved word from the owner that we have purchased a brand new GR-510 gantry router. I am looking for any input as to any problems that anyone may have incurred from such a beast. It is due to arrive in the next couple of weeks and any help is greatly appreciated.
Wow, a brand new machine and you're expecting problems already? Give it a chance. :)
I'll be curious to watch this thread. I'm actually trying to talk my 'day job' employer into buying a GR512 or GR712 with the 'extended Z' option.
I finally heard of a local guy who has been successful at using one to mill, drill and tap large aluminum plates. It's no powerhouse and it will only hold tolerance when used within its limits (due to flex in such a large but lightweight casting) but it's very capable of it.
What are you guys going to be doing with it? Patterns? Milling? Drilling? Get it with the aluminum table so when enough people screw up, you can just unbolt it and buy a new plate of aluminum, face it and start over.
I think it's a very cool machine and a lot of capability for the cost.
Hi Greg,
I currently have 17 Haas machines under my supervision, and have never even seen a CNC Router. It looks like a really nice machine to have, but I didn't know if anyone out there would say "this machine is a lemon." I will be pre-wiring in the next couple of days and trying to find a spot to put it. Man am I cramped for space. Yes, we do alot of Pattern, Contouring, Drilling, and Tapping and our VF-10 just isn't big enough for some of this larger type work. Too many times, we are setting up jobs in 2-4 setups to complete the job and there seems to be more room for operator error. Hopefully, this machine will eliminate a lot of un-neccesary indicating. Gotta get back to work now.
With that many machines, you probably don't need to use it as a 'mill' but I really like the extended Z option. One salesman described it as being "about as powerful as a TM-1 with only slightly less rigidity.
So again, it won't do big hogging but it could be used as a poor man's gantry mill (within limits).
My 'day job' employer is incredibly cheap and won't invest in any kind of technology. I keep trying to push them into a GR712. We do materials testing, 'proof of concept' models and shop-aid tooling.
Most of the parts we make are low production (under 50 pieces), loose tolerance (0.005" would be great) but repetitive or complex in shape. The sizes vary greatly and are generally aluminum or plastic. Steel would usually just be drill patterns or pattern cutting from sheet. We'll probably get one shot at a CNC mill in our entire career.
I figure we could do just about anything if we had an extended-Z axis, GR712. My friend wants a TM-2 (he doesn't think the GR is financially possible or worth the space it will consume).
With such low numbers, the GR won't make our parts that much faster. I figure the programming time would negate a good portion of the time savings on such lower numbers.
The big thing for us is that quality would go way up. Right now we lay out sheet metal features with paper patterns, tape measures and Sharpies. Profiles are laid out with a Sharpie and cut out with an abrasive wheel. The final product looks like heck and we waste a lot of time with files and sandpaper trying to make this stuff 'look good'.
Did you guys get the extended Z or the toolchanger? Are your parts metallic?
Greg,
We do 99.9% as a metal shop. We also do work with all kinds of Plastics, some rubber, micarda and phenolic, brass, bronze, copper, aluminum, titanium, inconnel, carbide. Yes,
we did get the extended "Z" and a 20 tool carousel for ATC. With steel being the milled material, what would be the recommended "max" depth of cut be? At full cicumference if the tool?
Wow, I don't know how much steel you could cut on that thing. I would imagine that it wouldn't be much though. I don't think the bed can even support much weight and keep it flat.
In our application, the only steel it would ever cut would be small stuff, in a vise on one corner of the machine. The guy using it as a gantry mill is doing so with aluminum and he has to nurse it along to hold tolerance.
Nonetheless, he's got a machine that will machine features in very large plates for only $120K. I don't know any other solutions that can do that.
You understand the limitations though: it depends on the part. If you're doing milling it might not be so good but if a large part of the job is drilling and tapping, it might be just fine.
If it were my money and I had to regularly do large pieces of steel, I'd probably look for something more robust ($$$).
We have had a GR510 with the raised and extended Z axis for over two years with no problems. Mostly these days it does drilling and tapping in steel parts with some small hole interpolation and the occasional facing cut across the end of 1-1/2" x 3/4" steel flat bar. I have used it for making steel fixtures butit is not really rigid enough for milling steel and cannot take heavy cuts. I described how it does on alumnium compared to a VF machine in this thread:
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22589
Some of the cuts are with a 3/4" dia. two flute running at 10,000 rpm, 0.28" depth of cut, full width at 100 ipm with no problems except the oscillation I describe in the thread.
We have the aluminum table which we drilled and tapped for replaceable steel inserts on 4" centers; the table is tapped 9/16" NF and the inserts have a 3/8"-16 thread. This gives much better strength than just tapping the table 3/8"-16 and means a stripped insert can be replaced. We also had coolant splashguards fabricated and run flood coolant with barely any leakage. I can get pictures if you are interested.
Guys,
Thanks for all of the input. This was exactly what I was expecting to hear as "problems". I think the Toolroom Mgr. bought this for some heavy cutting and it sounds like we may have some issues. Maybe it's not the "right" machine. Oh well, I will keep you all posted when the machine arrives. Thanks, again,
We have had a GR-712 now for 2 years without the extended z, but we cut resiten and plastics on ours. The material is usually 1" thick and we run full depth at a minimum of 100ipm. We have the 10 station tool changer, with network and hard drive and the 15,000rpm spindle. We have a vacuum table which holds most of our parts that are over 10" by 10" without moving. We have ridgid tapping and the Renishaw probing. This machine has been a great asset to our quality and quanity as far as production increase.
We liked it so much that we just got a GR-510 and our averaging 250ipm with 7/16" thick and under materials . These are easy to set-up and train operators!
We also invested in a TM-2 and this helps with the smaller parts that need work on more than one side, and the indexer is fun to play with!
All in all I'd say you'll be a happy camper!
I am considering buying a Haas GR 510 gantry machine.
We would do primarily aluminum and plastics but need to do some work in Mild steel to justify the purchase.
We rough most parts out on a waterjet and would use it to clean up the outer profile, remove taper and bring into tolerance when required.
We would also like to cut pockets in steel plates when necessary.
Small parts approx 12" x 12" overall size. with pockets approx 3" x 3" and .250 deep. Does this sound reasonable?
I need to get advice from somebody who really knows rather than a Haas salesperson who replies "no problem".
We are not a typical machine shop most of our equipment is large flat bed type Waterjet, plasma, and routers. we would like to fixture multiple parts throughout the table for ,maximum effiecency.
We could go with a machining center but the hass GR would allow us to do some things we currently do on our waterjet (large 2d parts) or routers with the added ability to process steel.
Any thoughts or advise would be appreciated.
Thanks
You must have read my earlier post. I mentioned I have the raised and extended Z axis and this makes the machine much less rigid at the cutting tool; there is such a long distance of head flapping in the breeze.Quote:
Originally Posted by powerstream
Did you look at the specs for the GR510 with the 5000rpm higher torque spindle. I think this is the machine you could consider with the standard Z height and travel. It will be much much stiffer than my machine and if you have to take slightly longer making smaller cuts than would be possible with a big VF machine you make up for it by having all your setups already spread out on the big table.
Guys,
The Machine finally arrived and it has been running for about 2 weeks. It is a really nice looking piece of equipment. It will definitly "open the doors" for some different type of mill work for us. Like I said to my operator - SSWWWWWEEEEEEEEEET.
JoBwan... I know it's been a while since your posting, but I'm due to get a GR-712 in about two months. Sounds like everything went exactly as you'd hope it would. This will be our first chip making machine, we're a Steel service center that focuses on burning, lasers and water jet cutting steel and stainless steel, with some aluminum. I'm really just looking for an update on your machine's performance, what kinds of things have you got yourself into that you didn't expect it would handle??
:stickpoke: PICTURES PICTURES! if possible that is :)
u2tree,Quote:
Originally Posted by u2tree
The main job that surprised us all is a 1/2" x 58" x 81" crs plate. We have supporting blocks strategically placed underneath for drilling a 3/4" hole. Then we spiral mill down thru for a 3" hole with a 3/4" inserted endmill. It then cirlce mills 1/8" doc (twice) for a 1/4" c'bore. There are appx. 4 - 8 holes depending on application from the customer. We have been doing this job for 6 months or so and the machine still holds tolerances like the day we first started it! Hope this helps you!!
Sorry guys, the Boss won't allow pictures.
To you guys with the GR series machines there is one annoying problem I have found. The reflectors for the laser safety zone if they get dirty they don't work so well and you get an open door alarm. This can be caused by a mear bit of coolant residue.
I have walked away from the machine, left it running to come back an hour latter to see it blinking with feed hold because the coolant splashed the reflector when the gantry moved by it.
If you get an open door alarm and can't find anything wrong check the lasers, it the green light is out the reflector is most likely dirty.
As a side note its a funny joke to pull on the new guy as he panics over an open door alarm on a machine with no door
We are considering purchase of a HAAS GR-712 Gantry Router Mill for purpose of cutting both 16ga. - 10 ga aluminum sheet and galv steel sheet.
Cutting will consist of perimeter patterns and hole drilling .
Also considering the optional Z axis at 24" height.
Standard 10,000 RPM spindle.
Anticipate cutting feed rates at 100 IPM with 3/8" dia 2 flute mill cutting
at full sheet metal depths for one pass perimeter cutting. Plan to coolant flood the end mill.
Would appreciate any feedback as to expected machine performace especially
when cutting the thicker galv steel sheet. I beleive the aluminum sheets should cut fine ...comments ???
I don't have any comments about the GR machines to add to what I have already posted in this thread. But I do have a question: You are working with 16 to 10 ga. material; i.e. your thickest material is around 0.1". Why do you need 24 inches of Z travel?:D
And actually I do have a(nother) comment/(question). Have you tried machining the galvanized steel with a 3/8 two flute at 100 ipm. My limited experience cutting some 11 ga steel was something of a disaster. The d****d stuff would not cut. Granted I was running a four flute cutter but it built up a huge burr in front of the cutter and the material eventually started to glow red. By slowing things down I managed to finish what I was doing but it was not one of my most efficient operations.
24" Z axis being considered for future use to machine taller formed parts ( again made from sheet metal raw material ).
However , weighing that need out against the machine's ability to cut my steel sheet product. Thinking the 5000 RPM 20HP higher torque spindle may be the ticket . ( as you give up the 24" Z axis with this 5000 RPM spindle option ).
Any insight as to how the 5000 RPM spindle will then peform on the easier to cut aluminum sheet material ? Or do I need the 10,000 RPM for optimum aluminum cutting ?
If you wanted to poke 1" diameter drills through thick steel plate the 5000rpm high torque spindle may be useful. In my opinion the GR machines, especially with the long Z axis, are not rigid enough to take a big cut in side milling or facing to use the extra torque from this spindle. Also the lower speed would certainly slow down the cutting of thin aluminum sheet.