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Hi!
Im trying to replace bubble memory boards on my MC-4VA (OSP5000) with newer CMOS memory. I have tried with two types of processor boards- type MIIA and MIIB. Unfortunately in both cases I get an error message on a screen: 2135 bubble memory time out ERROR 4. Lithium batteries appear to be in good state- multimeter shows 3.7V. What could be the reason for such error code? I just really want to get rid of those bubble memory boards.
Guntis
"timeout" means the control (CPU) doesn't get response from the bubble memory module. Read the replacement instructions carefully. The CMOS memory differs from the bubble memory very much. CMOS memory doesn't produce any "ready" signal originally: this should be simulated in order to pretend that the bubble memory is "online".
The bubble memory. by the way, the memory chip itself does not produce the "ready" signal also. It is originated from the bubble memory control chain - the special power supply - unit.
Oh. Didn't know this would be not so easy. :( Where can I get this instruction?Quote:
Originally Posted by Algirdas
It is easy. The manual of procedure comes with module itself. There are different Okuma solutions of bubble memory replacement, can't tell which is yours.
Check the power supply for the new memory module.
Shouldn't be any timeout errors. The very old power supply unit can fail, however.
I have CMOS memory cards E4809-045-167-C , one is type A911-1511, second is A911-1512. As these aren't completely new, no manuals is available with them unfortunately. So Im curious how to get them to work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Algirdas
Attachment 465830
Ok- I have found that document. Bulletin Number: SB-E-0083 if any needs it too. Will give it a try.
four cells. Should be 6VQuote:
Lithium batteries appear to be in good state- multimeter shows 3.7V.
No. They are Toshiba Ultra Lithium ER6V/3,6V, 4 pieces connected parallel to achieve higher capacity. Taking into account that multimeter used for measurements wasn't a fancy FLUKE type, readings are believable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Algirdas
One thing I didnt get after reading that bulletin- what is CCOP and FOPT? From OKUMA materials I have CCOP is optical card, and FOPT is Fieldnet Output transistor card. Where is connection between these and CMOS?
Attachment 465844
Attachment 465846
Yes, then the voltage is correct.
You just repeat the settings from original memory module.
Did you noted the essential part of procedure? #9 - reload system software. Means, you need to reinstall the operating system.
Yes, I did software reinstalling- I have original 8'' floppy drive built in machine and full set of disks, but that is all. Software As far as Im restarting a system it halts and 2135 error is lit on the screen. Originally there were two 4Mbit*1 bubble memory cards on MIIA motherboard, however they are working (there were a few times they dropped an error, how long will they live is under a question). So this is the main reason to get these CMOS boards working- its better to change batteries from time to time and reload system than suddenly realize bubble memory is dead. :( I have read both here, and on pract.machinist- everyone suggest CMOS boards, but accidentaly there are no reviews that anyone has done replacement practically.Quote:
Originally Posted by Algirdas
Algirdas- You said that there should be simulated "READY" signal. Is there more details about this?
You are extremely lucky having the bubble memory still alive and Okuma supplied CMOS memory for replacement. What I would do - I would check the interface signals. Easy to find out where data bus is ( 8 lines ) and address bus ( should be 10 to 15 lines). All the rest are control signals - Read/ Write ( data bus direction ), at least two "chip select" signals and "enable". Need to discover what combination of control signals makes the error come up.
Easy :-) A little research job with good multiple channel osciloscope :-)
and the most important bonus - create the bubble memory interface diagram, which is usefull for future.
Good thing I have both HP scope and logic analyzer. Not the fastest solution in this case, but at least will get a deeper understanding of what's going inside Okuma's brain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Algirdas
P.S. Heh- and I thought it will be easy with this "OKUMA lady"... What a fool I was. :D
Guess what? It works!!! :banana: And it was done without jumping around with scope and probes. I will leave my findings here for others as a future reference.
Serious note: a one will definetly need original software disks that came with his machine, as during experiments it turned out very essential point (software and hardware should be compatible).
I have a bunch of very well preserved original 8'' disks that came with my machine (MC-4VA), issued from 1984. (in that year this OKUMA was built) till 1995, each numbered with exact machine serial number. Which means software is machine specific. And there are another disks I have received as a spare parts (from model MC-4VB, year 1989.) with different version of OSP5000M-G (version 609 if Im right). Needless to say that all the time I have used disks from year of 1984 to reload software!!! So then I got this idea- lets try that software from MC-4VB. LOAD MODE switch engaged, inserted floppy, pushed button LOAD START, a minute or so to download all files to CMOS and then I tried to switch machine on. Now there weren't any 2135 error code on screen, but unfortunately 065 SVP START appeared. :confused: But thats not a wonder here - software is from completely another machine! So the CMOS memory started to load CNC system, no more time out errors, only that SVP error now... Went to home for some coffee, started to read manuals and suddenly unexpected revelation came- there were newer versions of software in that blue box! So I reloaded both A1 and A2 disks with 1995.year version. What a surprise I had when CNC just switched on just a couple seconds after I pushed POWER ON button. :O Bubble memory took approx. minute to load system, CMOS memory just seconds. Wow!
So after this somewhat long tale here comes my conclusions (if Im not right in some statement please correct):
1) Problem with 2135 TIME OUT ERROR is more related to software version. CMOS memory works many times faster than original bubble memory so this new hardware interferes with obsolete software version I had previous. So a 1984.year software will not work with CMOS memory boards- they are not compatible. Of course I don't say its 100%, but it is nothing new that new systems doesn't work with old software. (Im completely newbie with OKUMAs and this is my first serious CNC milling machine (DIY versions doesnt count). I have more experience with MAZAK (lathes) and Mitsubishi (EDM) ).
2) Motherboard should be MIIB type to be compatible with CMOS (didn't test it with MIIA, but different manuals say the same thing).
3) System activation speed is super fast if compared with bubble.
4) Experiments to do in near future: it is possible to increase memory of CMOS to get a total amount of memory 32Mbits (or 4Mbytes) which equals to two A911-1514 (16Mbit, largest memory board version) CMOS boards installed in MIIB motherboard. Boards that I have installed are A911-1511 (4Mbit x 1) and A911-1512 (4Mbit x 2). They have a free places for memory chips (MM628128LFP-8, TC551001BFL-85L or equal) on PCB. By adding/soldering missing chips we increase a total memory (8 chips goes for 4Mbit, so if You want to increase memory these should be added by 8, 16, or 24 in total). This is a relatively simple way how to upgrade these boards. But again- dont take it as 100% correct information- this is my theory. In worst case total memory amount could be controlled by CMOS on board controller and its program, so adding chips may not work. I will try this experiment as far as I receive ordered chips.
Hope this writing could be useful for someone here. Have a nice day!
Congratulations.
Can't tell for sure. I think that software ignores the type of memory. To be sure you can try to install that software version using the bubble memory back. In my opinion, you have only one software version suiteable for your control, which works the same with bubble and CMOS memory modules. The error was caused because the addressed area was "empty". It's only my opinion, not confirmed.
To increase the capacity of memory you need to modify Okuma software. So called "memory disks" are defined there and checked by formatting. ( Bubble memory is formatted ). It's possible, that bigger memory will be detected by initial tests. It will not be used if description of disks remains the same.
Thanks!
About MIIB motherboard- it should use any array of memory modules if they are up to 32Mbits. without intentionally modifying Okuma software (at least I think so). Don't know if I will get deeper into that- machine is working now and thats the main thing. Taking into account that it was considered by previous owner as a candidate to scrap- results are very, very good. Hydraulic station is new- I build it myself, servodrives are refurbished, relay boards are checked, I have replaced CRT with standard VGA LCD (there is a lot cheaper option than those expensive 500-1000$ replacements, but there should be added some really simple circuit to get around problems (synchronization) many encounter with), CNC crate and boards are all cleaned. So a hella lot of work has been done there- its a really good feeling when machine get back to normal life. :)