2 Attachment(s)
- Shipping Container Machine Shop w/PCNC 1100
Hi Everyone,
So I've lurked and read and learned and lurked some more long enough! This all came about because of a design I have been working on for close to 3 years which evolved to a point I decided to quit my job in Oil & Gas and go on my own again. I've put myself on a budget to start a small machine shop and will be launching a product this summer/fall as I hone my skills and build the business.
I will be spending a decent part of the budget getting the machine and tooling up which is why I am going the shipping container route. I don't have a garage and not going to rent space somewhere when I haven't had sales yet. Besides, a 40' container cost me $2500 and at about $6K I'll have it all built out.
Shop Layout:
https://www.cnczone.com/forums/attac...d=393248&stc=1
Where I'm at today:
https://www.cnczone.com/forums/attac...d=393250&stc=1
CNC Mill goes all the way in the back on a 2" fiber reinforced concrete slab w/ stand feet going to be on epoxy resin pads centered on top of the steel trusses. I still have a bit of concern on machine vibration. Honestly, if I had to do it over again I can't say I'd pour 4" foundation instead of 2" (that was the biggest pain in the a.. of the project so far hand mixing concrete in a wheelbarrow.
Found an awesome little rolling tool chest for $199 so instead of the $195 machine arm to put monitor, keyboard, controller on I get a cool tool cart same height with some storage benefit for tools. It goes on the right, then a computer desk for laptop, screens and 3D printer. Then, coming back more I have assembly/QA benches (Qty 2) 8 foot long with pegboard behind them. Will add shelving at top of them later. Then a Shipping rack back at the entrance.
Left side from entry to the back; Receiving rack/materials storage, materials handling (chopsaw etc...), AC unit/finishing equipment/"breakroom" then pallet loading station along with the cutting tools rack.
Ordering the CNC mill tomorrow, hopefully will have electrical completed by the time it shows up. At least the A/C needs to work because it's Texas and I have cold Norwegian blood lol.
BTW, what I'm getting:
- PCNC 1100 mill with stand - I don't have time to build my own stand
- Automatic Tool Changer - To me a must have for production runs
- Steel Fixture plate - I did a fair amount of manual machining in past. Pallets/fixtures you gotta do for production
- 5" CNC vice w/ jaw kit - Not a mill without a vice!
- Smart Cool/Multi Cool - Flood & airblast, programmed to point where you need it through tool changes. (See too many videos everyone always screwing with their nozzles.)
- Some end mills for steel and aluminum
- Fixture clamps
- Qty 2 Wildhorse probe/toolsetters - 1 for tool-setting, 1 for work offset
- *No 4th axis for me yet, think above will keep me busy for a while and I'll wait until I start making money before purchasing
I've planned for this quite a while, started with a BOM and think I have fairly accurate costing which is not overly optimistic. We'll see how planned vs actual goes. As far as the shop setup goes do you guys see anything big that I am missing or haven’t factored in?
BTW, reading for the last year or so you guys have saved me from a number of mistakes already so thank you!
Re: - Shipping Container Machine Shop w/PCNC 1100
Looks great. I’m sub’d and will be following a long. Congrats on making the break and best of luck.
Where in Texas are you? Just outside Austin here.
Re: - Shipping Container Machine Shop w/PCNC 1100
Thanks!
I'm outside of Houston in Waller. Hill country over in Austin is a nice place.
Re: - Shipping Container Machine Shop w/PCNC 1100
The chip trays will be a pretty tight fit in there. If the walls are chip and coolant proof you are about half way to a nice enclosure.
bob
Re: - Shipping Container Machine Shop w/PCNC 1100
Looks like a very fun project! And if Texas gets hit by the big flood, you're ready to take your shop wherever it's needed. (Assuming you also design transport straps/stops for everything.)
I would not advise closing in all three walls of the mill. Any service you do to the mill will require you to stand on the sides or in the back of it.
Might want to put service hatches on the sides/back with a plasma cutter or something if you're dead set on putting the mill in the back.
On your shopping list, I didn't see any tool holders. Maybe you just didn't list them? The starter kit is alright; you'll probably want to buy more once you know what you use the most of.
What are you doing for metrology? Do you already have good Vernier calipers, micrometer, perhaps three-flute tool diameter measure? How about reference; gauge blocks, granite measurement surface, and so on?
Regarding coolant: If you are careful about flow and aim, and use the stand with the walls and the lexan front guard for the table, then you will only get slight amounts on the walls/floors. But on steel, concrete, or plastic flooring, that will still turn into a slip hazard, and will need wiping up.
If you don't use the lexan guard and the side walls on the pan (do they still have those, now that they have the big enclosure?) then you can assume there will be just as much spray as in a shower stall where you forgot to close the door :-(
I quite like the full enclosure option for coolant control. And, again, I don't like the idea of only 8" clearance back and (worst!) sides.
Re: - Shipping Container Machine Shop w/PCNC 1100
jwatte,
Thanks for the reply and input.
Think I'm stuck with my clearance issue on sides. Probably would have been wise to put back of mill against side of container instead of back wall and given myself more clearance to the sides. I think too late to change now because the concrete pad is too short for that. If I poured a second pad then machine would sit on 2 different pads which would be a no-no. How often to you need to get to sides and back of machine? Just for adding upgrades or is it common things like periodic maintenance/troubleshooting?
Tool holders, etc... I'm ordering the TTS operators set and additional 10 ER20 collet holders and end mills (ball & square) to get me going. I'm considering the modular insert tooling, like the modular insert face mill which looks good.
Metrology, I have a decent amount of measurement tools from my time as a service technician and I do have a manual 3-in-1 Lathe/Mill/Drill so calipers, parallels, indicators and such I have. Would love to have the Tormach toolsetter and TTS touch probe but that's another $2k when a wildhorse one is $120.
You do have me thinking about what I'm going to need to do to address the side clearance issue : /
BTW, I marked on walls where the tie down straps go if I ever need to move the whole thing!
3 Attachment(s)
Re: - Shipping Container Machine Shop w/PCNC 1100
Meant to update on this earlier but been busy and getting prototyping on my product complete has been my priority.
Pics of how it turned out:
https://www.cnczone.com/forums/attac...d=401152&stc=1
https://www.cnczone.com/forums/attac...d=401154&stc=1
Lessons Learned from install up to today:
- Tormach Stand - If you have time (I did not) pour water in bottom of drip pan to see how it drains with stand level. Then level it with both front and right side high so the water drains to back left properly. I did this after I already had mill on stand and that was a lot more work to level properly
- Read fully all instructions for machine and accessories when installing, even if you are gifted with excellent mechanical aptitude!
- ATC – Spend the time to get it right on the money per instructions. Have not had a single issue with tool changes yet and don’t expect to.
- Power drawbar – Make sure you get as much tension on those cup washers as you can and still release properly. And put anti-seize on the collet! First heavy cut I made with ½” bit, holder came out of spindle. (narrowly avoided nasty crash)
- Get the additional Estop (and Estop install kit) right off the bat. Money well spent. Saved me from the above.
- Get a Haimer right off the bat. From Tormach. I got on from amazon to save a few $ and it did not fit for TTS tooling. My bad, maybe I save someone else the delay.
- Get G wizard if you are not experienced with CNC and speeds/feeds.
- CAM – don’t be lazy, put your stickout in CAM library what it actually is for your tool. It’ll save you crashes. I had a close call that grilled this into my brain.
Learning Curve:
Background so you can get a feel of my previous experience:
I had much manual machining experience behind me to go off of. Self-taught on CAD design (fusion 360). No previous CAM experience. I’m doing small, precision parts of my own design. Tolerance +/- .02 mm
- First cuts I did where using the PATHPILOT Conversational tab. Found this to be pretty easy to use. Practice cuts with Z zero 1” above stock so I could get a feel for it before risking crash.
- First setup making a tool fixture with Fusion CAM and no G wizard calculator was mediocre. Broke a 1 mm Ball EM trying to engrave a part #with it.
- Super Fly Flycutter – Love it! Stuck shims in slot for tool bar to get the insert to lay exactly parallel to cutting surface and had great finish.
- Smart Cool – Love/Hate so far. For some reason I can’t do ADMIN SMARTCOOL_OFFSET 1.0 without getting this set right I have to constantly adjust between tools still. MDI won’t let me type underscores so I’m stuck like this until I figure it out.
- I spent an extra week tuning the machine before ever making a cut. Checking tram, table, lost motion, spindle speed, etc... I put the Saunders steel fixture plate on my table and shimmed so full X & Y and you won’t find a spot that touches .01mm off zero.
- Yesterday ran a setup with 26 operations using 13 tools. Everything went as planned in Fusion 360 CAM. Simulation pretty much shows exactly how it’s going to cut when you have accurate tool dia/lengths entered.
- Already wishing the ATC had more than 10 slots
- G wizard, Fusion 360, Path pilot. Love this whole set of tools and give much credit to all of them for me so quickly being able to produce reasonable parts. 2 months from install I’ve went from zero CAM and CNC experience to producing my first acceptable parts. Credit to myself for being an exceptionally talented yet modest person as well…
- G wizard, Fusion 360, Path pilot… Sure wish tool library was portable between all 3. I’ve got 30 tools setup already and that was time consuming in itself. Wish Tormach put speeds/feeds on all their tooling in fusion 360 library not just the starter kit.
https://www.cnczone.com/forums/attac...d=401156&stc=1
Work fixture I made 2 weeks ago.
Re: - Shipping Container Machine Shop w/PCNC 1100
Nice set-up
if you had to move it quick do you have straps om everything to hold it from shifting ?
and how loud does it get when the CNC is running ? Just wondering if the steel walls add to the noise :)
and how tall of a container did you start with ?
Re: - Shipping Container Machine Shop w/PCNC 1100
This is really cool. Love to see your progress. Wish I had the nerve to quit my day job as you have. I’ll live vicariously though.
Re: - Shipping Container Machine Shop w/PCNC 1100
Quote:
Looks like a very fun project! And if Texas gets hit by the big flood, you're ready to take your shop wherever it's needed. (Assuming you also design transport straps/stops for everything.)
Well prepared for climate changes ... now, machinist must think about it to keep work flow 24 hrs...
Re: - Shipping Container Machine Shop w/PCNC 1100
Quote:
Credit to myself for being an exceptionally talented yet modest person as well
Not to mention good looking!
Seriously, though, looks like a lot of fun. Shiny surface on the part, too!
Re: - Shipping Container Machine Shop w/PCNC 1100
Sorry for late replies!
imperial90303,
I marked where the tie downs are located in the wall but I would have to cut through paneling to get to them. I probably would not move it with mill on stand.
Noise is an excellent question. Too loud to hear my music when machining lol. Think I may need to add an additional thick curtain in front to close and cut down noise when I'm running repeat setups I'm comfortable with. It is loud enough where it's distracting when I'm working on other things and too loud to be on the phone with someone during machining. Maybe add a camera in there to monitor since I have a big display in shop when I'm working on CAM setups.
Standard 8' tall container.
VAAR,
My previous job was extremely stressful and drove me to look for other options! Was working towards this for 3 years before taking ultimate plunge. It it still nerve racking sometimes lol. No money until I produce a good product....
Asuratman,
Quickly seeing my limitations with this setup. While machine is capable of all the machining processes going into the folding knife, thinking it should not be used as a router to do wood/bone/resin ivory handles. Nor should I be taking up much of its time doing engraving which could be done on another machine. Already looking at probably 7 hours machining time per knife...
Jwatte,
Thanks! Thinking surface finish can get better on hardened titanium, we'll see. Also, I am heavily considering using XEBEC brushes for deburring and finishing. Will probably do a separate post on that in the future as I start experimenting with them. I have a great stone tumbler that was donated to me but there are ceratin mating edges I like to keep sharp.
XEBEC:
XEBEC® Deburring Technologies
Anyone ever use these??
Re: - Shipping Container Machine Shop w/PCNC 1100
"next time" you might want to look for a taller container , probably the same cost.....
I think there are 8 1/2 and 9 1/2 tall
plus there are some that are 45 ft long containers too ,
I wish I could put one in my yard , but the city will not allow it.....
Re: - Shipping Container Machine Shop w/PCNC 1100
Quote:
Originally Posted by
imperial90303
"next time" you might want to look for a taller container , probably the same cost.....
I think there are 8 1/2 and 9 1/2 tall
plus there are some that are 45 ft long containers too ,
I wish I could put one in my yard , but the city will not allow it.....
Just put it underground:cheers:
Re: - Shipping Container Machine Shop w/PCNC 1100
Quote:
Originally Posted by
imperial90303
"next time" you might want to look for a taller container , probably the same cost.....
I think there are 8 1/2 and 9 1/2 tall
plus there are some that are 45 ft long containers too ,
I wish I could put one in my yard , but the city will not allow it.....
Actually the taller ones are less expensive. Same for me about the City.
Larry
Re: - Shipping Container Machine Shop w/PCNC 1100
Quote:
Originally Posted by
metalfixer
Actually the taller ones are less expensive. Same for me about the City.
Larry
In my area, the taller ones are $300-$500 more. I would have gotten a taller or longer one but the container I got was $2,400 and that is less than IRS limit of $2,500 capital expense for being able to take 100% depreciation on it in the first year. (I can write off the full $2,400 in first year expenses, if it was over $2,500 I would not have been able to) Credit to my friend Monica who is helping me with business for that one!
If people are looking at a low cost option to start a small business and can put one of these containers somewhere, I think it is great idea! I will wait until I have revenue before I even consider moving into a leased space or putting substantial money into a building. Considering I am a month behind on where I thought I'd be for prototyping, this is starting to save me $$ when I need it most.
4 Attachment(s)
Re: - Shipping Container Machine Shop w/PCNC 1100
In the Detroit, MI area the quotes I received were for 2 heights and 3 different conditions.
The shipping containers are offered as:
Wind and water tight, used
Cargo worthy used but structurally better than wind and water tight, for stacking:
New, made overseas and used one trip.
For others information, I’ve included the prices that I was given.
Re: - Shipping Container Machine Shop w/PCNC 1100
Did you think of how and where to place a remote fire extinguisher ?
if need you sure do not want to have to run to the back of the container to put it out !
The 40 foot container I am renting for storage has a 5 ft wide roll up door about 5 ft from the back of the container , it really helps when you need to get something out of the back section........
Re: - Shipping Container Machine Shop w/PCNC 1100
metalfixer,
Great information, thank you for sharing!
I've purchased 2 of these so far, some tips:
1. Purchase from a place that lets you walk their yard to pick the actual container. (Or at least sends you pics of it) If you can get a look at it before buying then you don't have to go through expense of getting a single trip one. Also, check how the doors close! You shouldn't have to muscle the heck out of a good one.
Below is the 2nd container I had delivered, I rejected it and had them send me another because the walls and ceiling were in worse shape then they said and would have been a nightmare to set the foam insulation boards on. BTW, I used RMax 3/4 x 4 x 8 foam boards glued to walls with Loctite PL pro premium 3x. Worked very well this summer. Wall AC unit did not run excessively in the Texas heat. Advise getting an AC unit rated for at least 500-600 sq ft even if container is 320sq ft due to heat output of equipment,lights etc..
https://www.cnczone.com/forums/attac...d=402616&stc=1
imperial90303,
I have 2 fire extinguishers. 1 by the CNC mill and another back near entrance at my storage racks. My planned materials handling (chopsaw station) I moved outside since it's so loud and puts a bunch of grindings in the air/shop.
Would love to have a 2nd door somewhere near the back as I'm not a huge fan of feeling trapped in back with only entrance to front. Once I get some good sales going I've got a few upgrades planned and a good metal door farther back is one of them. Maybe a barred window too. Like the security of the container but it can feel like a cave.
All in all, was a great choice for me starting out. Prototyping my first product has extended farther than I had hoped but is to be expected. Learning curves! Right now I'm finishing up some design changes based on the prototyping and submitting a utility patent next week. CAM has been a enlightening when you see your masterful design is a pain to actually machine lol.
