CNC Spindle Motor - 2.2 KW Water cooled and VFD

Hello,

I am sure this topic has been discussed many times over but I couldn't really find what I was searching for.

I have just more or less finished a long term home built / designed CNC build and now need to purchase a spindle motor.
After lots of reading and research, I have decided that a 2.2 KW water cooled spindle motor and matching VFD unit would suit my needs.

I am looking at something along the lines of what CNC4YOU sells in the UK.

https://www.cnc4you.co.uk/Spindle/Wa...VFD-plus-Mount

It would seem that all though similar units are available on eBay and Amazon and other such places for a lot lower cost it may be that what you actually get for your money can be a lot less in regards to build quality and also the actual components used, and of course their are many reports or fake devices out there which work but and far less superior in many respects, such as bearing quality, runout, VFD quality and control etc.

CNC4YOU say that the motor and VFD come direct from the actual manufacturer and and are fully tested, matched and setup ready to go and have been very well specified by them.

Really my question is what other options are available in the UK to purchase a good quality and reliable 2.2 KW spindle without having problems or buying something that may end up being false economy later on when they fail or become unreliable.

Any views or thoughts on this or suggestions about other makes or suppliers, which would be a good alternative to a lot of the mainstream far eastern spindles that seem to be everywhere. Or is it a case of that certain brands and suppliers of these are actually very good??

I am happy to purchase from CNC4YOU but just need to consider all options first to make sure I am making the right decision.

Thanks for your time .

Paul

Hi,

Quote:

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Really my question is what other options are available in the UK to purchase a good quality and reliable 2.2 KW spindle without having problems or buying something that may end up being false economy later on when they fail or become unreliable.

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All these cheap spindles are made in China.....who cares whether you buy in the UK or anywhere else, they all still come from China.
If you want quality then buy Japanese/European/US made....but be prepared to pay TEN times the price.

I personally bought from Mechatron Gmbh....great quality just not cheap.

Craig

Hi Craig,

Thanks for your reply.
I understand that all the cheap spindles around come from China (Mostly) but its seems that you can buy two that look the same with the same spec but are actually very different in quality.
Also, seems a lot are advertised as a certain spec (such as four bearings of a certain quality / type) but are actually far less than what you think you are getting. I don't mind a spindle and VFD from china, I am just trying find a decent supplier that actually provides a good spindle that meets the advertised spec. Weather that's in the UK, Europe,or the far east.

The units from CNC4YOU come to around £500 for the spindle, VFD and mount. I am just trying to find out what other options I have before I spend my hard earned cash.
I did look at the Mechatron site, so maybe I should see what the nearest match they have and what sort of cost it would be.

Whats you Mechatron spindle like? Does it perform as expected without any issues and are you happy with it. I take it you would recommend Mechatron?

Thanks again.

Paul

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Originally Posted by MaggieMarley

Hello,

I am sure this topic has been discussed many times over but I couldn't really find what I was searching for.

I have just more or less finished a long term home built / designed CNC build and now need to purchase a spindle motor.
After lots of reading and research, I have decided that a 2.2 KW water cooled spindle motor and matching VFD unit would suit my needs.

I am looking at something along the lines of what CNC4YOU sells in the UK.

https://www.cnc4you.co.uk/Spindle/Wa...VFD-plus-Mount

It would seem that all though similar units are available on eBay and Amazon and other such places for a lot lower cost it may be that what you actually get for your money can be a lot less in regards to build quality and also the actual components used, and of course their are many reports or fake devices out there which work but and far less superior in many respects, such as bearing quality, runout, VFD quality and control etc.

CNC4YOU say that the motor and VFD come direct from the actual manufacturer and and are fully tested, matched and setup ready to go and have been very well specified by them.

Really my question is what other options are available in the UK to purchase a good quality and reliable 2.2 KW spindle without having problems or buying something that may end up being false economy later on when they fail or become unreliable.

Any views or thoughts on this or suggestions about other makes or suppliers, which would be a good alternative to a lot of the mainstream far eastern spindles that seem to be everywhere. Or is it a case of that certain brands and suppliers of these are actually very good??

I am happy to purchase from CNC4YOU but just need to consider all options first to make sure I am making the right decision.

Thanks for your time .

Paul

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For a starter they are not setup ready to go, but I can provide you with the correct Parameters to set for this setup, check on Alibaba or Ebay and Amazon as you may find a better price, for the same thing, watch the shipping cost this could put the cost up. G-Penny is one of the better spindles if you are looking for a Brand name, they are all very similar though.

You see in the spindle Data sheet that Pin 4 is not connected this is a no right out of the box Pin4 is Ground / Earth wire connection and must be used

Hi,

Quote:

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Whats you Mechatron spindle like? Does it perform as expected without any issues and are you happy with it. I take it you would recommend Mechatron?

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I have the smallest and cheapest 800W air-cooled model. I've had it for eight years and given it hell and its still going. I use a Delta VFD, and it was second hand when I got it, and its still
going strong too.

If I could afford it I would buy a 2.2kW(100%) 42000rpm ATC model, with HSK tool interface. Downside is that its 5700Euro!.

Jianken is a Chinese brand that has a good reputation, considerably more expensive that the run of the mill Chinese spindles, but still less than European/Japanese/US made.

El-cheapo VFD's usually work well enough that they could be considered good value but if you want something that will last, at fair prices, try Hitachi or Delta.

Craig

I have read that there is a difference between some of the less expensive HY VFDs in that not all have the internal circuitry to allow for a breaking resistor, which some users are looking for.
I purchased an Omron VFD for my Jianken ATC spindle, which I believe is very similar (the same) to a Hitachi WJ200 model - both work for the 2.2Kw 220V single phase spindle I have.
They are more expensive, but are packed with features that may save time and money in ease of set up, etc..., and are considered of good quality with good reviews. It doesn't hurt that their manuals are in English, thorough, and come with various support options should you have questions or need assistance. One good thing about the HY VFDs is their popularity among hobby users, and that has resulted in many great 'how to' videos/resources online.

Hi,
all VFDs have at the very least a small built in braking resistor, and most provide the extra IGBT and external terminations to connect a bigger braking resistor.

If you have a production machine for which you are trying minimise cycle times then reducing the deceleration time may be important and a braking resistor becomes essential.
Another application that requires braking resistors is in Lift service. VFDs made for that service are often special order, in part because of the braking requirements.

For regular hobby use an external braking resistor is not required.

The early HY models had a non-standard MODBUS protocol, and if you intend using MODBUS should probably be avoided. The HY GT models and later had standard MODBUS comms
and are acceptable.

For my money I want Delta or Hitachi minimum. Yaskawa are top of the heap.

Craig

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Originally Posted by TMToronto

I have read that there is a difference between some of the less expensive HY VFDs in that not all have the internal circuitry to allow for a breaking resistor, which some users are looking for.
I purchased an Omron VFD for my Jianken ATC spindle, which I believe is very similar (the same) to a Hitachi WJ200 model - both work for the 2.2Kw 220V single phase spindle I have.
They are more expensive, but are packed with features that may save time and money in ease of set up, etc..., and are considered of good quality with good reviews. It doesn't hurt that their manuals are in English, thorough, and come with various support options should you have questions or need assistance. One good thing about the HY VFDs is their popularity among hobby users, and that has resulted in many great 'how to' videos/resources online.

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Yes, they are packed with features, that you will never use.

The Omron VFD Drive is a private labeled made by Hitachi since 2016, Omron used to use the Yaskawa VFD Drives, the Omron version of the Hitachi has more methods for controlling it, apart from that they are the same.

These spindles don't normally need a Braking Resistor, and yes, the regular HY VFD Drive, and many others don't have what is needed for a Braking Resistor install. the HY GT is just as good as the Hitachi

Using a Braking Resistor above 10% will damage these spindles.

I appreciate the practical viewpoint user experience brings. I am very much looking forward to finishing my electrical enclosures and getting everything up and running. As someone new to CNC it has been a very rewarding experience and learning curve to get to this point. I will admit that programming the VFD and making use of the relevant features will take some careful thought and care.

Thanks for all your replies, that's more of what I am looking for with actual names and brands and what user experience people have had with the various options available.

If you had a budget of around £500 (ish) for a spindle and VFD what would you buy and where from?

I would rather not spend that much but at the same time I have spent a fortune on the CNC parts so far, both mechanically and electrically, so if I really have to spend more on a spindle then I would consider it, even if that means waiting a bit longer to save up the pennies.

I like the idea of a branded VFD like delta, Omron, Hitachi etc. and the same for the spindle, I also like the look of the Mechatron offerings but have no idea about pricing yet, and if they are any better than a typical Chinese version of Amazon or eBay for a mere couple of hundred or so.

Thanks

Paul

Hi,

Quote:

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I also like the look of the Mechatron offerings but have no idea about pricing yet, and if they are any better than a typical Chinese version of Amazon or eBay for a mere couple of hundred or so.

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I rather doubt that is the case, European/Japanese/US made spindles tend to be a lot more, not just a couple of hundred, but a LOT more.

With the budget you have then you are looking at the 'value' Chinese offerings. You may not like the idea much but that's what is available in the price range.
The cheapest VFDs are certainly lesser quality than the brands you mention, but are actually pretty good value. Yes some do blow up but the vast majority of buyers
have a pretty good result. Not having the budget to buy Hitachi etc is not the end of the world, indeed if it were possible I would suggest that the spindle motor is
the more important, in terms of quality, than a VFD.

There are some brands of spindle motors that have a better reputation for quality, but I suspect they will blow you budget just the same as a top quality VFD would.
By all means price some of Jianken's spindles.....and you'll se what I mean. Most buyers report pretty good results with the cheaper brands, so dive right in.

https://www.jian-ken.com/

When I built my first mini-mill eight years ago I ended up in the same situation as you are. I too had spent a lot of money on steppers, motion parts, electronics and so
on but then had little left over for a spindle. The problem is that the spindle is usually the single most expensive part of the machine....but its just too damn bad, you'll just have to buy
the best you can afford and be done with it. The chances are that will prove to be adequate. Once you have a few hundred hours machining time under your belt you'll
come to conclusions about what you really need, and will, like as not, be different to what you think right now.

Craig

Hi,

Looks like that the HY offering may be the way to go for the price.
I have asked Mechatron for a quote but not heard anything yet. I know it won't be cheap but just need to be sure, its out of my budget! :(

What about a new spindle and a secondhand VFD? Although I couldn't really find much online for branded VFD in that sort of price range.

Back to searching and deciding I suppose.

Thanks

Paul

Try here...https://www.spindel-shop.de/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MaggieMarley

Hi,

Looks like that the HY offering may be the way to go for the price.
I have asked Mechatron for a quote but not heard anything yet. I know it won't be cheap but just need to be sure, its out of my budget! :(

What about a new spindle and a secondhand VFD? Although I couldn't really find much online for branded VFD in that sort of price range.

Back to searching and deciding I suppose.

Thanks

Paul

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Not all VFD Drives are suitable for these high frequency Spindles, so what you look for must suit the motor specs, and unless the VFD Drive is rated for single phase use you will need a larger Kw rating

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TMToronto

Try here...https://www.spindel-shop.de/

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Now that's more like it :)

https://www.spindel-shop.de/en/High-...Spindle-4.html

But at 970 Euros just for the motor is just pushing it :(, very nice though. I wonder what sort of price bracket the VFD would be?
Maybe it might be worth while putting things on hold and saving up, LOL, (or not!)

Maybe start with a HY brand then. Could always upgrade later if required, or if things warrant it for some unknown reason.

Certainly put a grin on my face at that price, but then its looks the business and I bet is actually good value for money for what you actually get.
Saying that, and from the previous comments, the full package from CNC4YOU is probably more than suitable and also good value really and more than likely serve me well for many years.

Thanks

I contacted Mechatron several weeks ago because I was having a hard time finding anyone with the Omron/Hitachi inverter I wanted. Mechatron did not have them in stock either, but suggested a new one they were offering from Hitachi, the S1. I believe it was a lower price point as well, but was not quite as feature rich. As mactec54 pointed out, his view was that many of these features may not in fact benefit most/some users.

Hi,

Quote:

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But at 970 Euros just for the motor is just pushing it , very nice though.

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Yes, quality does not come cheap. Mechatron are about the same as Teknomotor in terms of quality and price but still a lot cheaper than HSD, Jager and the likes.

I've seen Omron VFDs around the 450 Euro and Delta in the range of $400USD.

If you were to spend extra to get quality then I think the spindle is the best place to do that. Even a very cheap Chinese VFD will mostly likely give you a good run.
A good spindle will pay for itself over and over again.

Craig

Hi,
what about second hand?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/32449428280...gAAOSw0PNgMrNJ

Columbo is a good brand.

Craig

Hi,

I have been looking around for second hand units which do come up.
I have requested a quote from Mechatron for their MX2 - 2.2 kW Ph 230V VFD to go withe their water cooled HFS-8022-24-ER20 motor (Listed at 970 Euro).

More than likely far too much in money terms but in the long run may be a worth while investment.
I may email them again to see if they have any other lower cost VFD options or can recommend a brand model that would work with the spindle which I could maybe see what is available used, but would at least have a new motor.

yes, like many things in life you get what you pay for. And as you say quality costs money! I know that the lower cost Chinese spindles etc are ok for most and maybe that's what I will buy but It would be really nice to get a far better quality unit if I can get a decent price.

Thanks

Paul

Actually,the Mechatron VFD looks like it is a Omron MX2 2.2 kW series.
Maybe a second hand unit form somewhere or something similar to get the price down and the a new Mechatron motor.

Maybe Mechatron have a display or demo unit available???

The cogs are turning. Need deep pockets! but would be nice to get something decent.