Syil X3 Erratic Spindle Speed with Mach

Hello, I recently received my X3 a few weeks ago and I have been experiencing spindle speed issues when controlling the machine from Mach 3.

It appears others have this same problem. I am hoping someone has resolved this issue or has some additional insight.

I have tried contacting Syil, but they fail to return my calls or emails. When I do get Richard or Rod on the phone, they act like I am the first person with this problem. They seem to be ignoring or avoiding this issue.

Maybe they don't read the posts on their own forum?
http://www.syil.com/community/showthread.php?t=37

I have posted 4 videos on YouTube to show the behavior of the X3 spindle with Mach.

http://www.youtube.com/customluthier

Video 1: Syil X3 Mach settings
Shows pulley configurations
Pulley #1 80-1750 ratio 1
Pulley #2 200-3500 ratio 2
PWM Base Freq set to 500-650
PWM Min % set to 5-6

Video 2: Syil X3 CNC Erratic Behavior
Shows startup erratic behavior of spindle
going from forward to reverse, start to stop

Video 3: Syil X3 Pulley 2X
Shows spindle response from Mach MDI gcode inputs
S500,M3,M5
S400,M3,M5
S2000,M3,M5
S3000,M3,M5

Video 4: Syil X3 Pulley 1X
Shows spindle response from Mach MDI gcode inputs
S200,M3,M5
S400,M3,M5
S1000,M3
S1500,M5

Depressing isn't it? Your mills behaviour is mirrored this side of the pond every time I switch it on. The clunk at power on, the pulsing of the spindle, the reset and then hopefully nothing.

I can possibly go one better! Seen this one yet? Run your program and on the first motor on command it'll go to the requested speed in reverse and then when it achieves the speed, or more accurately, the speed a good few hundred rev's below requested, it'll suddenly flick direction. Always a crowd pleaser that one...

If you're having no luck with contacting Syil there and in China, then I'd say we're going to have to get used to the taste of lemon.

efff! Me!

Thanks for your insight. I suppose that is the purpose of the manual/CNC mode switch on the front panel. The Mach control was never intended to work. It's good to know I am not the only one having these issues with the Syil control board. Manual mode it is! I am definitely not in the mood for a spindle reverse during a milling operation.

i will ask my engieer take a look.
Syil China

I decline to comment. . . .

I know in the case of my X4+, Syil Canada went over the machine and fine tuned everything before shipping it to me. From what I've been told, this can be a very important step before the customer takes delivery. A lot can happen during shipping and even during initial assembly at the factory. I seem to be reading more and more threads regarding machine problems from those who have by-passed the local dealer to obtain their product.

Not saying you did this, just something I've been noticing.

Also not pointing fingers to Syil China and the factory, like I said, shipping can play dirty tricks with adjustments, tolerances and the likes.

djn

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by iGG1e

Depressing isn't it? Your mills behaviour is mirrored this side of the pond every time I switch it on. The clunk at power on, the pulsing of the spindle, the reset and then hopefully nothing.

I can possibly go one better! Seen this one yet? Run your program and on the first motor on command it'll go to the requested speed in reverse and then when it achieves the speed, or more accurately, the speed a good few hundred rev's below requested, it'll suddenly flick direction. Always a crowd pleaser that one...

If you're having no luck with contacting Syil there and in China, then I'd say we're going to have to get used to the taste of lemon.

---

Comments are always appreciated, might even be helpful.

I have been having similar issues with my spindle and it has nothing to do with Syil on mine.

I had come to the conclusion that I was getting some noise in the system from somewhere because of an issue I was having. I was apparently wrong about that. It was a mechanical issue I was having with my new Tormach tooling. That and running too fast for steel. Compound issues really. One of the tools would creep out of the R-8 holder and lead me to think the Z was falling during the op. The higher speed I was running, 4800 rpm was actually pulling out the tool sometimes. I did remedy this by roughing up the tooling and using a little higher torque on the drawbar.

Now to the point. I was using the C6 board from CNC4PC. I was only using 1 spindle setup as I have only one pulley. Using the different motor tuning adjustments I could get a couple speed settings I use pretty close, but then the other end of the spectrum was off and I would sometimes get a lot of pulsing or surging on the motor. I tried every combination of setting I could think of testing it over a couple days. I wasn't using reverse, so that wasn't a problem. I did once see when the program ended that the spindle still turned @ about 100 rpm. Only happened once.

So I have some of the same issues. I reverted back to manual. The pulsing wasn't good for the EM's and it drove me nuts listening to it.

I was wondering if you have tried setting your motor acceleration a little higher?
Your spindle appeared very slow to start and stop in the video's. My machine would be half way through the first process by the time yours gets up to speed. I don't know if you have the settings to do that on your motor driver.
Does the machine or Mach wait until spindle speed is reached before moving or do you put a dwell in?

Read this thread. It is all about the spindle speed issues and Syil responses.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58937

Posts, in particular #10 and #13 give details of the technical problem as I see them.

I have offered to Syil that I will fix the problem for FREE. If enough people haunt them they might get something done.

Now that the X4+ is out they say the SX3 is no longer current, so it will never get fixed.
Make lots of loud noises, or keep using manual mode. Set PWM to about 600 is about as good as it gets. When I use auto mode, I let it settle using M0 to wait, then hit cycle start and walk away.
Don't use below 700 or above 3500 in auto mode.
On the X4+ don't use above 3200. You don't have much choice on the X4+
If its manual the axis is too. It has firmware issues reading the PWM / front panel knob properly.

Thanks for the comments and open dialog.

I too agree it is an issue with the spindle control PCB and how it interfaces with Mach. My PCB is version 1.4.

If I set the speed manually, the spindle seems to hold that speed and operates properly. I have tested the RPM with an optical tachometer and it is +/- 3 RPM. That is reasonable.

On my machine I can still operate the x,y, & z axis via Mach in manual mode. The switch only appears to effect the spindle.

I am amazed of the level of denial. I have seen posts regarding this behavior back to 2007. I wish Syil would officially state there is an issue, and they are trying to resolve it. If it is broke ... it is broke.

However, I am encouraged that Syil China chimed in above. Hopefully their engineer will bring a solution.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by djnbig

I decline to comment. . . . I seem to be reading more and more threads regarding machine problems from those who have by-passed the local dealer to obtain their product.
djn

---

This could be true in some cases, but personally it isn't. I think it depends on the technical knowledge of your distributor. The UK one, whilst eager to help where and when he can, is primarily a box shifting operation.

Unfortunately Neil's stated use of speeds and control methods do seem to be the only reliable way of using the mill.

Hi there,
I have a Syil X5 and I real need some help here, I just don't know where to look next.
I'm using windows 7 with mach 3 and there's been no problem, very thing was working fine. I re-calibrated the spindle speed, with no luck in the afternoon. I came in the next morning, I turn on the computer and then the X5 mill to warm up and the coolant pump came on instead. I've had the control card check I've had the computer check. I can't fine the problem.
I should have never tried to calibrated spindle speed. Very thing was working fine.
I contacted Syil China, that was just pointless. The sales guy in NSW Australia he didn't want to know about.

End of the motor probably has a magnetic hall sensor and rotating magnet.
One whisker of stuff on the magnet can make it quite erratic.

Post a picture of end of motor here, so that we don't fix it the other way, instead of the right way.

The pointless bit: (that is why they are salesman)