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Anyone using this option kind of pricey it supposedly automatically offsets difference in CAM set zero and actual MAchine part set zero as I understand it, regardless of where parts on the table. I dont understand it myself, if you have your part or fixture set at zero on machine and in CAM then why would you need it.
Explain if you can I'll buy it but $7k if not needed is a little too pricey.
First off the option lists for $4995 not $7000. Here a few reasons why this option is awesome and like a work and tool setter probe no 5th axis and 4th axis machine should be without.
Dynamic Work Offset (DWO) and Tool Center Point Control (TCPC) are software options in the Next Generation Control (NGC) that greatly simplify multi-axis machining using Haas 4- and 5-axis rotary tables. DWO handles all 3+1 or 3+2 motion while TCPC handles all full 4- and 5-axis motion. Both features are included under one option price.
• Part can lie anywhere on the platter
• More forgiving rotary setups
• Easy transitions from one job to the next
• Saves time in the CAM system
• Increases part accuracy
Why DWO / TCPC
The differences between machining with or without DWO/TCPC are subtle, but the effects in terms of a simple setup are dramatic. When machining 4- or 5-axis, the machine rotary zero point or A-axis center of rotation (also known as rotary center-of-rotation), need to be known. The only difference between machining with or without DWO/TCPC is where this information is stored. Without DWO/TCPC, it must be stored within the CAM system; with DWO/TCPC, it is stored within the control.
The Next Generation Control makes it very easy to set up your specific rotary in the control. For DWO/TCPC to work properly, it is very important that the rotary configuration match the true rotary setup. The rotary axes must also agree with the rotary axis convention. For example, a TR160Y with the tilt axis parallel to the X-axis would enable the A and C rotary axes. If the rotary was rotated so the tilt axis was parallel to the Y-axis, then the B and C rotary axes would have to be enabled.
Standard ISO rotary axis convention:
• A-Axis revolves around the X-Axis
• B-Axis revolves around the Y-Axis
• C-Axis revolves around the Z-axis
Active Work Offset
When a job is set up, an Active Work Offset is created. For a program to function properly, all axis movements must be programmed from a stationary point. A typical 3-axis job would place this work offset on the top of the part. The problem with using this location for 4-axis or 5-axis programs is that the active work offset moves when the rotary rotates. The rotary center-of-rotation is the only stationary position in 4- or 5-axis rotary setups.
Rotary Center of Rotation
The rotary center-of-rotation is a position that does not move as one or both rotary axes rotate. Without DWO/TCPC, all programs must be programmed from this location. This solves the issue of a moving active work offset, but creates a new problem; now the distance from the part location to the center-of-rotation becomes very important. If this distance changes, the CAM program must be modified and re-posted to account for the difference.
Machine Rotary Zero Point (MRZP)
With DWO/TCPC, the location of the rotary center-of-rotation is stored within the control, relative to the axis home position. This is defined as the Machine Rotary Zero Point (MRZP) and stored within the settings page. This process is done one time, unless the rotary is moved. Since this information is now stored in the control, we have solved both problems previously mentioned:
• The center-of-rotation is now known
• The location of the work relative to the center-of-rotation is no longer important
How
With DWO/TCPC, the control has all the information that it needs to calculate where the part is in space. This is why the part can be placed anywhere on the rotary table and the same code can be ran. Without DWO/TCPC, the control doesn't have all the information it needs and relies on a proper CAM setup to account for the missing information.
Benefits
DWO/TCPC gives you the freedom and flexibility to machine a multi-axis part. For a job shop making small batches of parts, DWO/TCPC allows for quick transitions from one job to the next. For high production shops the program and the fixture can be made independent of one another. Either way DWO/TCPC save you time and money.
• Increase part accuracy
• Save time in the CAM system
• Save money on fixtures
• Create simple 4- and 5-Axis programs by hand
• Increase number of multi-axis operators
• Increase productivity
• Make money quicker
If you have 4th and or 5th axis work you need this option to compete. On the Next Generation Control (NGC) Haas just came out with you can try it out for 200 hours for free. Not 200 hours from the minute you turn it on but 200 hours you can turn off an on only when you need it.
Hope this helps it's all on the Haas website Haas Automation and check out their DIY site too it's sweet diy.haascnc.com
Thanks Great explanation and you are correct about the price being $4995 not $7k I went back to my quote and looked. Don't know where I pull the &k from..
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Thanks and no problem. Haas has been good to me and I like to pump them up when they deserve it. Best part is the first 200 hours are FREE!! :)
Damnit, I wish I could get that new control on our new machines (by new, I mean 2013-2015. Cant be retrofit onto any old machines :/
Sorry inthebay not backwards compatible.
Apparently, the part about using standard axis convention is pretty important. I was working on a new part last month and the applications guy from the local dealer was in the area and stopped by and we went over some programming questions I had and we talked about the DWO/TCPC option. After he left, he talked to someone in applications at the factory, and DWO/TCPC will not work on an EC-1600 because the geniuses made the table platter "A" axis, even though it revolves around the Y axis and therefore should be the "B" axis. The answer I have got from two different applications guys as well as the factory install guy that flew out to help install the thing is that "it was the 1st rotary on the machine, so they made it A. Yeah, I know its wrong, but...." The thing that really got me and my boss both is that the DWO/TCPC option was on the price list for an EC-1600 when Haas knew full well that it would not work. I have been told that maybe this fall they will have a work around to allow DWO/TCPC to work on our machine.Quote:
Originally Posted by PC247
This functionality is something that has been missing from the machining world for a long time. The explanation from PC247 is really good! It seems that most people don't even realize the benefit of a product like this and just spend a whole lot of extra time and money in fixtures, reprogramming and job setup.
As you all know, this capability is now being offered on many new controls, especially in machines that are dedicated 4 or 5 axis machines. This still leaves thousands of machines without the capability...even many newer 3-axis machines with aftermarket indexers. Over the years I've written many macros that handle this task, long before it was an option you could buy...going back to the 80's. I did this just to make my life easier because I was faced with the same issues that every machinist is faced with when performing 3+1 or 3+2 machining, knowing where the work piece origin is located in the 3-axis coordinate system when it is re-positioned on a 4th and/or 5th [rotary] axis.
I have recently started a new company named Axisolve LLC that offers aftermarket software to provide this capability in machines that do not have it. I had a booth at South-Tec a couple weeks ago and it was pretty well received. Not only will this product handle origin tracking, it will also compensate for rotary axis misalignment which can be a big deal when trying to hold tight tolerances. It also identifies each rotary axis as an individual axis of rotation, rather than assuming that the 2 rotary axes perfectly intersect at a single point (5 axis scenario). There are also a handful of other features that make life easier, such as automatic retract motion during indexing. This product definitely addresses the issues that are discussed in this thread and in many ways does it better than the options available on a new machine.
As I said, the software is a macro that runs in the machine control, but there is an accompanying desktop user interface for configuration of the product, making it easy to change its settings. This product is not (currently) capable of full simultaneous machining, it is just for 3+1 or 3+2 position machining, but that is the vast majority of work performed in these machines. If you're interested, you can check it out online at Axisolve Home - Simplify and improve rotary position machining. There are also some youtube videos that explain the product.
Hopefully this will help you guys that don't have the option in your control to do this. I know this thread is a little old, but until now there has not been a solution to this problem so I thought I would chime in.
Cheers!
Does anyone have any experience using DWO with GibbsCAM? I'm trying to position/mill on 5 sides of a rectangle. GibbsCAM doesn't seem to have any examples of this. I don't feel like this is rocket science but so far I can't make this machine do this.
Maybe I'd be better off with PartMaker? I've heard that it's better with multi-axis work but I don't know that to be true.
So I understand how DWO/TCPC work. The one thing many people dont mention especially the haas sales people is you also have to buy an approx. $1700 MRZP calibration kit. This is what the probe measures off of when running the MRZP calibration cycle. Its basically a precision ball at the end of a dial indicator stand.
Now Here is my question. I know this MRZP calibration kit is needed on say the UMC 750 but when I watch the Haas video on the MRZP calibration cycle they run it without this MRZP kit on a TRT100 mounted on a DM2. I just got a VF2SS with the TRT100. So do I need the MRZP calibration kit to run the MRZP probing cycle and thus DWO/TCPC or can I run it like they do in the video? Are they just leaving this out of the video for sales reason so people dont realize DWO/TCPC is actually $1700 more than they thought due to needing this kit?
Any info on this would be great. Thanks
I may be wrong but I think you just need to affix a precision sphere a few inches away from the rotary platter somehow, then use that setup to run the calibration. That kit and the other probe calibration stuff comes packaged with the UMC machines but I believe it's because they're the only machine that is native with the G254, unlike the verticals which simply have 5-axis add-ons.
Doesnt the controller need to know the size of that sphere? Or is that something you enter at the start of the probing cycle?
What is really throwing me off is the fact that in the video they show running the MRZP cycle on the TRT100 right off of the platter. They start by jogging the probe down into the platter bore then he does a few other spots. I just dont want to buy something I dont need especially when its $1700.00.
oh you're right about that. The cycles are different. I'm comparing my notes on the pre-NGC controller with the manuals for the new machines...it looks like the calibration routines are different but the information seems to be the same, aside from the controller differences.
That said, I don't think you need to buy the sphere tool, just need something with a magnetic base to mount on the platter. There is indeed a prompt for the sphere diameter within the calibration routine, so you should be able to use anything within reason.