Buying my first CNC (1100M vs 770MX)

Hi:

I'm new to the CNC/Manufacture world and going to buy my first CNC. Currently I was going for the PCNC1100M but recently the PCNC770MX caught my eyes and now I'm not sure for which one I should be aiming for.

In one hand the 1100M has a bigger working area and more power in the spindle also with my current budget I could get the floodCoolant system, the PDB and automatic oiler also this budget does not allow me to buy the enclosure.

In the other the 770MX allows up to 10000RPM and the servos allow bigger feeds , comes with rigid tapping and the BT30 system allows more tooling capabilities (and more rigidity). The only thing that gets me is the need of a 110V network (I must buy a transformer in order to step down my 220V network to 110V).

I could not find any 770MX review on the internet but I assume the tolerances are the same as their correspondant M line machines. The intended use would be prototyping and building robots. I currently have a 3d printer but It's time to move to metal in order to build industry acceptable ones. I'm aiming for aluminum/steel material.

Any comments are well received.
Best Regards.

I have the 1100M and while I am definitely looking to upgrade it to MX specs, I am doing so with the following knowledge

Spindle power is far more limiting than feed and rapid speeds. The servo upgrade is nice but mostly because of the closed loop nature preventing lost steps if/when the table gets jammed up because you're pushing the cut too hard for the spindle to keep up. Increased rapid speeds are nice if you're doing a lot of repositioning of the tool but otherwise they aren't of much use.

Rigid tapping is nice, but far from necessary. Thread milling has been working wonderfully for me on both internal and external threads. For small stuff I have a tension/compression head from tormach that has seen 6-48 through 1/4-20 work in steel and aluminum without a single broken tap.

BT30 tooling... yeah I want that.

10k rpm spindle... yeah I want that too.

Personally, I would buy the 1100M and upgrade it as your budget allows in the future. That was one of the major selling points for me when getting into my tormach. I had a budget similar to yours and in the end I bought an 1100M exactly as you described with the addition of an enclosure (well worth the stretch if you can make it happen, flood coolant will be MESSY otherwise). With time I will definitely be upgrading the spindle as well as the steppers. I also intend to add or build an ATC. I've already built a half decent 4th axis until I can afford a microarc. The 770MX has all the nice addons but you can never upgrade the working area and the spindle power is what it is so if you start bogging it down, there's nothing more you can do. FWIW, I have definitely bogged and stalled my spindle even in aluminum so it will happen especially if you're new to machining. I too am a novice. I've had my machine for less than a year and prior to getting it I spent about 6 months of saturday's playing with the 440 at the local college.

Thanks for the reply !.
Right now I am more prone to buy the 1100M but what is kinda retaining me is the fact of buying the TTS system to then change to BT30.
For what I saw, servos do not add a LOT to the new machine and the fact that a transformer would be necessary is a extra investment I could be doing in mills or something else.

I supposed the enclosure is a must when using flood coolant, maybe something home made could be build.

I'm not real thrilled about having to change out all my tool holders either. I've actually put myself on hold for several tool holders that I would like to have but don't want to have to buy again once I upgrade so I'm just making do with the selection I have. Not that it's limiting me too much but it would be nice to get a couple more 1/4" holders and a drag engraver

In your opinion what tools are a must buy ?

As a starter I think I would add some 1/2 - 1/4 and 3/8 end mills (3 flute for aluminum , ball . chamfer). Some rough mills, a Tormach MiniMill (3/4"). Some metric drills, thread mills and reamers. I would be going for this kind of setup , but I don't know how many and which ones.

What tools did you pick when you bought your machine ?

I started with a shear hog, superfly, 3/8 2flute em, 1/4 3 flute em, chamfer mill, and a jobber length drill index (fractional, letter and wire sizes). Over time I have added 1/4 4 flute for steel, as well as a variety of specialty sizes and styles for specific jobs. Don't waste your money on 1/2" tools. My experience, as well as some consensus here, is that they don't work well on the tormachs. Probably due to limited weight/rigidity and spindle power but I don't really know that for sure. For aluminum I've had surprisingly good results from the speed tiger tools available on amazon. In steel I struggled for a long time before I finally stepped down to a 1/4" tool and checked and adjusted runout of the tool. As soon as I did those two things I was making chips with no problems. Prior to that I couldn't get more than a couple passes before the tool would be shot and start screaming at me. Lately I've been using lakeshore carbide but I have some speed tiger tools that I am going to be trying out when my current one gets dull. I haven't invested in any roughing tools yet other than the shear hog so no comments there.

I have a PCNC 1100 Series II that I bought new in July 2011, and I have just run the heck out of it.

My company is Mid Day Machining because I seldom start before 11:AM and I’m done by 5:PM.

I’ve done a few outside jobs since I got my machine, but for the most part I manufacture a line of running gear for remote control gas powered boats and trucks.

I’m 75 years old now, and I keep machining just for something to do.

Thanks both for the response. I'm going for the 1100M !
Hope I will be making chips soon.

Not as cheap as your Speed Tiger but I have had excellent results with https://www.shars.com/3-8-se-2-flute...l-for-aluminum on my 770. The ZrN seems to make a real difference with chip welding and the corner radius helps with life. The mills cut well until I do something stupid! This is and a Shear Hog are used on most every job.

The additional Y travel on the 1100 should be ranked pretty highly in your comparison.

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In your opinion what tools are a must buy ?

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Cutting bits (end mills, tooling) are consumables. You will break them. And if you don't, they will wear out. This is different from woodworking, where good quality router bits can last for a very long time. Metal is just tougher.

Also, stickout/rigidity is a trade-off, as is diameter vs getting into corners.

Three flute aluminum end mills are a good choice for cutting aluminum :-)

My suggestion is to get multiples of all the common tool holder collet sizes, and many, many multiples of the ER tool holder. Maybe 20 of the ER20 holders, two full sets of 1-13mm collets, and then quadruple up on the very common diameters -- I don't know what they are for metric; for imperial this would be 1/8, 1/4, 3/8. Also get a small Jacobs chuck for utility drilling. I do a lot of work with M2/M2.5/M3 threading, so I have extras in the 1-3mm range. (I have one metric and one imperial set of collet nuts, plus the aforementioned extras.)

You also need thread mills and drills for whatever particular work you do -- I'd suggest getting both stubby and jobber of the clearance and hole drills for the threads you will work work with, at least two of each (drills break!) but five-packs would be better.

Additionally, I'd get two each of stubby and extended size end mills for 3/32, 1/8, 3/16, 1/4, and 3/8, as well as roughers in 3/8. Never had any luck with 1/2 tooling on any size Tormach. For metric these translate to 2/3/4/6/10mm I think?
Anyway, that's to get started. Once you have a certain kind of work that you do, you will figure out which sizes you go through the most, and it's more important to have a good "go-to" for buying tooling (e g, default to vendor X, tools Y, using shipping speed Z) than to have just the right tool already in the box.

In addition to all the good advice above, consider reviewing the titans of cnc building block course. I'm currently doing it (free) and it's helping my transition from 3d printer to cnc. Each project has recommended tooling but you can substitute as needed. I made some mistakes in that but I learned something too. There are other courses and ways to learn but this course covers CAD, CAM and Milling in a concise manner and has Tormach / path pilot specific videos (although the woman who does them is way too conservative on feeds/speeds). All of the projects use the same aluminum stock of varying lengths keeping everything simple.

Kennametal (high dollar) offers a tool set to match titan's projects but most everything is available on Amazon /alibaba etc at hobby level quality and price. I have used speed tiger and can attest to it's quality. I most frequently use amazon's "autotoolhome" brand which are under 2 dollars each. These are basic uncoated HSS 4 flute end mills. Yes, 2 or 3 flute are more optimal for aluminum. Sure these cheap end mills won't last and they break easily, but when learning, breaking cheap end mills is preferable to hard crashes and expensive carbide tooling..... I wouldn't consider $2 end mills for production work but I also wouldn't consider learning with expensive end mills either. I make most projects at least twice so that I can verify tool paths etc with disposable tooling, then use better tooling for dialing in. You'd be surprised how much havoc missing a leading zero when entering a "stock to leave" entry can cause!