NEMA23 Servo Motor 3NM 57HBS30 + HBS57 very bad experience, any advice?

Hello,
I have a terrible experience with servo motors from Aliexprss of the same type (57HBS30 + HBS57), and I wish to share my experience and I hope for any advice from someone here with more experience than I have, it will be much appreciated!
In short, I ordered 3 motors from a seller named "YUN DUAN Industrial Store", I didn't order all together because I wanted to avoid TAX payment. The first motor came fine with no problems, then I ordered again, the second had a problem that made it stall after a few turns (in the future I learned that the disk inside that register the revolution was not close enough to the sensor) the seller send another immediately, and the replacement was ok, then I ordered the third and it didn't work as well! I was perplexed back then because how can I convince the seller that yet again there is a problem? I opened the motor and the disk inside was bent as if the motor was assembled in a hurry, the seller saw the images and send another motor with no problem yet again. So I had 5 motors with 3 that really work. In the summer I had some time and I tried to fix the two and I had success, the bend disk was straightened and both disk were placed closer to the sensors diode and it did the trick. Back then I thought that I got 5 motors for the price of three... BUT!, after a year I finally had my CNC assembled and after a short time I realized that one motor still had a problem - for long runs of code the motor will stall it didn't register the revolution correctly, and after a few uses I had to throw it away. Another motor got burned after a work of ~8 hours (motor defect not too heavy use), and at this stage I decided to order again so I have a backup, the six motor came and had problem with the axes not in center (my guess) It made a weird scratching noise as if the rotor touches the stator. This time the seller was in the belief that I try to con him and I thought the same.. In any way I got partial refund and had to keep it anyway (it does turn just not as it should - I didn't tested it for long runs yet (I was too upset)).
Then the real problem came, I decided to build a second bigger CNC. And I decided to buy this time from a different seller all 3 motors together (it was a little cheaper) since I wanted to finish it faster this time (from "CNC Router Parts Store"). BUT! I got 2 motors that make a strong static noise which I didn't had in any other motor that I got and one didn't turn at all, no matter what I did. This time since I didn't had patient to order one by one I did pay TAX (the equivalent of one motor cost) and at this point I am very frustrated. I cannot keep them a single motor under no load makes noise almost equivalent to my spindle motor! (I use high torque - low speed nema based rotor for hard metal projects and it is very quite (this is not the typical CNC you see out there with 30,000 rpm)). I should mentioned that the motors came with a certificate from March 2011!!! so they are more then 10 years old!!!

Please forgive my long description of the problem, in short, what do I do? can someone recommend a better motor? different supplier? an explanation? I cannot understand what the sellers on Aliexprss gain from all this trouble.
(I should also mention that I work by the book, I never "play" with the assembly, the chances that I am the problem are small, I have decent knowledge in electronics. The power supply I use is 48V 250W for each motor (50W more then needed) which I tested with an oscilloscope before I even used it and my setup is a cheap mach3 breakout board which works with DB25 perfectly. The only reason I didn't resorted to a different brand/type is because I thought it will be convenient if all motors were the same and had the same size and controller, now I think it was a terrible choice)
Thank You Very Much of any advice,
Nir

The video of the motor noise: (please turn the volume up, I rotated the motors to show that they are connected but I am talking about the static noise when they are not turning..)
https://youtu.be/hOodOKadpUU

You're klling them with a machine setup like that. Leadscrews are terrible.
Once those leadscrews get even slightly dirty you'll start burning your motors.
If you insist on using leads, then douse them with GT85 or other teflon based spray very often
To keep them clean and loose.
(I bet you have 'sticky' points all over it as it is now).
Oil, grease or WD40 on leadscrews is a BIG no-no afaic when automated.
Learned this from working with automated industrial equipment.

You'll find it a whole other experience if you refit the whole machine with ballscrews instead.
Oh and they're not 'true' servo's, they're hybrid steppers. (normal steppers with an encoder fitted).

Lichuan products are good but are a good price too.

those aren't servos, they are steppers. Make sure the voltage is set right on the drivers. I wouldn't buy the cheapest ones you can find, $40-$50 is a good range. like these: https://www.automationdirect.com/adc...hoCvtcQAvD_BwE

dazp1976, I know that, I don't use it as a standard CNC, I use them for cutting accurate contours and placing holes or moving with constant speed for nice finish, that is why I have all the handles it is much more efficient than having one or the other. This is not for 2.5D CNC carving (I only did it once on a 8-10cm wood out of excitement), for that I am building a dedicated machine for which I have proper leadscrews RM2005 and much faster spindle, picture attached sorry for the mess.
crafter0323, they are called servo motors not step motors, even if they are in fact stepper motors, since they have closed loop system to check the real angle. I wish they costed 50USD they costed me 130USD with the driver and shipment...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nir90

dazp1976, I know that, I don't use it as a standard CNC, I use them for cutting accurate contours and placing holes or moving with constant speed for nice finish, that is why I have all the handles it is much more efficient than having one or the other. This is not for 2.5D CNC carving (I only did it once on a 8-10cm wood out of excitement), for that I am building a dedicated machine for which I have proper leadscrews RM2005 and much faster spindle, picture attached sorry for the mess.
crafter0323, they are called servo motors not step motors, even if they are in fact stepper motors, since they have closed loop system to check the real angle. I wish they costed 50USD they costed me 130USD with the driver and shipment...

---

If you're looking at spending 130 or so per set. Enquire to Lichuan for a price on the LC602102 closed stepper motors with the LCDA86H drivers. And power it all with a big toroidal transformer supply.
They also stock 3 phase steppers and 'proper' servo's.
Brilliant bits of kit they have.
I recently got a 1.8kw servo set for my mill spindle.

Also soon getting the stepper and drivers I mention above for my table axis.

dazp1976, you mean that you have good experience with Lichuan, but you also recommended on nema 34, do you think I need such power? from my calculations 3nm is more than enough...:) (the price is almost the same).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nir90

dazp1976, you mean that you have good experience with Lichuan, but you also recommended on nema 34, do you think I need such power? from my calculations 3nm is more than enough...:) (the price is almost the same).

---

No. I said the Nema24 motors. The 60mm, 2102 versions (4.5nm). Or if you're adamant on the 3nm then stick with the 57mm 2100's.
But....Hook up either of them to the 86 sized drivers, not the 57's.
Many folk don't use the smaller 50v style drivers with the 23/24 motors these days, simply because the higher the voltage you put into them....
The faster you can run your rapids. Higher voltage = higher rpm achievable.
If they get warm, you just turn down your amp current settings.
You can still run the bigger drivers on your 48v supply, it just gives you more options if you find you want more speed.

I have 4nm, 24 sized motors on mine and run them with the larger drivers on 60v. It is awesome now.
I'm gradually swapping to AC drives so I can get a toroidal transformer psu and throw out all my switched type ones.

Another point to make is that using 48v on drivers that can only take 50v max is way too close to the limit. Especially if it's a switched type psu.

We have closed loop stepper Motor in stock
It works very smooth
https://www.automationtechnologiesin...o-kit-439oz-in

If you have question, pls send us a email or call us

dazp1976, ok I found it, technically the LCDA86H is dedicated to nema 34, can you please give me some material to read on this kind of manipulation? (I did the same when I took power supply with 250W instead of 200W to avoid unnecessary failure, but I never thought of switching drivers for a given motor)
My drivers are up to 70V not 50V, if you gave this Idea only in terms of voltage output, then I don't see the difference, obviously they can handle 3x more current, but the question is do I really need it?..
automationtechinc, thank you, but If I understand it correctly, all these come from the same manufacturer, and honestly, I prefer a motor that was made under a little better conditions. they look very good, but the amount of unnecessary problems is unforgivable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nir90

dazp1976, ok I found it, technically the LCDA86H is dedicated to nema 34, can you please give me some material to read on this kind of manipulation? (I did the same when I took power supply with 250W instead of 200W to avoid unnecessary failure, but I never thought of switching drivers for a given motor)
My drivers are up to 70V not 50V, if you gave this Idea only in terms of voltage output, then I don't see the difference, obviously they can handle 3x more current, but the question is do I really need it?..

---

If you look at torque curve graphs....
You'll see that steppers etc lose torque as rpm increases.
You'll notice that the higher the voltage put into the driver, the less torque they lose at higher rpm.
This results in being able to rapid faster without losing steps.

If I use say 36V on my machine my steppers will start to miss at 2000mm/min.
If I use 60V they can go well over 3000mm/min without any misses.
Both times they are set to peak of 4.2A.
Basically down to the better torque curve.

Anyway. With your drivers being able to take 70V, using 48V is no issue and should still have reasonable performance (for now). I didn't realise they handled up to 70.

In terms of the Lichuan sets. There is a fellow on another forum who is a custom machine builder in the u.k. He swears by the 86 driver and 57/60 motor combo and won't use anything else. I'll be buying some sets from him at some point for mine. (unless I go to Lichuan and get servo's instead. (I haven't made up my mind yet.).
I already have a nice Lichuan 1.8kw servo system to go on my spindle.

Stepperonline have some 'ok' stuff too tbf but you have to really scrutinise the spec sheets, some of their stuff is also dog poo.

Do it right, do it once! Research a lot.
I've learned from mistakes made.

Daz.

dazp1976, I don't believe you understand my main problem, I already have 9 motors of the same type in total, (3 dead) and the new 3 make weird noise, I appreciate the comment for future orders but I am mainly focused on solving the current problem... And I may have found the solution, the holding current of the drives is probably too high which causes them to make that noise - when I switched with my drivers the noise was gone... So I ordered an RS232 cable and I hope to be able to change it back down to the point where I don't overload the motors.
If I succeed I will post the solution.
Regards,
Nir