Excuse my ignorance, but couldn't you buy a Haas TL1 for about the same price as a slant-pro?
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Excuse my ignorance, but couldn't you buy a Haas TL1 for about the same price as a slant-pro?
its $25k to start, $35k more like minimum buy-in, 3 phase and a LOT bigger. Not really comparable unless you get used and have the space and juice for it. I wouldn't turn one down, but not many choices at this spot in the market. There's various things I'm not excited about on the Tormach, but it still seems to be the best option for the hobbyist money if buying new
At nearly 5,000 lbs the TL-1 is a little heavier than I'd be comfortable moving to my basement. Mostly just a hobbyist here, though. If I had enough paying work, I'd give the TL-1 some serious consideration.
Would like something similar to a Haas, but space and power still has me thinking about a Tormach. Watching the videos, the rapids on the Tormach are painfully slow compared to a real machine.
I've been happy with my 1100, but then I have a larger manual mill and a 1440 lathe when I need it.
Dave
Rumor has it that they are going to make a retro-fit kit that will increase the rapids. I don't know any specifics, but I said to add me to the top of the list to buy it.
The Slant is an amazing machine and holds impressive tolerances all day across hundreds of parts. It's just slow in G0. Lot's of techniques to shave time off the cycles, but faster rapids would probably shave 30-40% off my total run times. For now I have invested in tools to automate the machine. Collet closer, bar puller, etc. Now I just load the stock, edit the file for how many pieces the bar will make, and walk away. There's always plenty to do in the shop. Plus, it brings a smile to your face every time you come back to the machine and see a pile of parts.
A quick look online found this:
TORMACH Slant lathe (3HP) is now $16,500 (bare-bones, no bells & whistles) New.
HAAS SL10 lathes are going for about $25,000 Used.
MORI-SEIKI SL250 is $21,500 Used.
OKUMA cnc lathes are going for $16,000 Used.
I think TORMACH might be in danger of pricing themselves out of the market.
I have been on the fence about purchasing a TORMACH for about a year now, because of their price and the weak Horsepower.
The only Positives I have for the TORMACH are the small footprint and single-phase electricity requirements, (since I'm still in the garage).
If I were in a bigger space, I'd definitely be shopping for a used "REAL" CNC Lathe instead of the Tormach for that price.
Pricing new to used is apples and oranges. The companies selling the used lathes have often reached a point in the lifecycle of the lathe that the expected repair costs and associated downtime make it more advantageous to buy another one. HAAS and Mori Seiki repairs are not cheap, and generally cannot be performed by the end user.Quote:
Originally Posted by RussMachine
The other question is if the purchaser is able to accurately assess the condition of the used equipment they are buying, and has the experience to anticipate the buried landmines associated with the used equipment.
Go back to the OP point: A TL-1 retails for $25k (new). A quick look at HAAS website shows that you will add another $5k at least to spec it similar to the Tormach. That is an apples-to-apples comparison.
That would be elcome news. The thing that scared my away from the SPL over the years was the painfully slow rapids speed.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottDW
The TL and TM can run on single phase.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spinnetti
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmarks11
But the $16K Tormach mentioned is an absolute stripper. No enclosure, no tooling, nothing. Hard to imagine you add $5K to a TL-1 to get it to bare bones stripper slant pro configuration. I
Professional CNC programmer/machinist hot take:
For a hobbyist that is not up on mechanical apptitude and more importantly electrical pro you are doing a SAFER bet with the Tormach. You will have support. Used iron with anything than a Fanuc you are looking at retrofitting(even Haas older than 2004) then if it is boxway you are doing rulon, ballscrews, and maybe an amp?? On another forum someone spent around $10k doing a pretty fully refurb on a Haas and that is linear guides plus factor in the auction price plus fees, rigging, etc.
I know because I did a pretty good refurb on a quality korean lathe with live tooling. It adds up quick especially if you want to not cut corners!
Haas TL-1 base price: $25.2kQuote:
Originally Posted by widget_maker
Spindle upgrade from 1800 rpm to 3000 rpm: $1885
rigid tapping: $1435
User definable macros: $2000
(all stuff needed to match the stock Tormach capability)
The problem with Haas is nearly everything that should just be part of the stock controller is an expensive option. And going up from barebones, like adding turret, gang tooling plates, QCTP, etc, the option prices are 2-3 times the Tormach. Haas makes their money on options.
No argument that the TL-1 is much more capable and rigid and accurate. But you are paying for that capability. A lot. And not everyone can afford that kind of startup cost.
To be fair, everyone does. Want to add a 4th axis to a Fanuc mill? Fanuc will charge you $750 minimum for their tech to come out, **** around on his laptop for 2 hours, then spend 20 minutes loading the option file in the control. Doosan's $8k TSC kit consists of a $2000 pump and $500 in hoses. And so on, and so on.Quote:
Originally Posted by tmarks11
And back to the original point. If you want to compare the cost of Tormach to HAAS, it should be an apples-to-apples comparison. Bare-bones is half the cost, and when you start adding on accessories, tormach extras are 1/2-1/3 the cost (tormach turret is $3995, HAAS turret is $8095).Quote:
Originally Posted by footpetaljones
Yes, the HAAS is probably easy to quantify as more than 2-3 times the capability of the SPL15, but not everybody needs or can afford the extra capability.
I just hope that when the 25% machine tool tariffs go away, that the Tormach prices drop. But that is probably a faint hope.