Setting tool length offsets without the wireless probe system

Hey guys, I did not get the probe system when I ordered our new Mini Mill. We set tool lengths manually off the machine on the Pulsar. We have a master tool that we use as zero. It is our shortest tool. Then we just fill out the tool table manually using a height gauge. We have a beeper probe to find the corners for X and Y. It could be used for Z as well.

On the Haas, I would like to start using a Haimer. It would not be stored in the carousel. I find all kinds of videos explaining how to use the probe system. Nothing or very little for the way to do it manually as I intend.
Any thoughts or links to more info would be appreciated.

How's about this Haas time of the day ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=P...&v=uNjMIIRttFE

I like the probe

Thanks for that. I have watched it a few times. Here are some more specifics about what I am wanting to do.
We have a 10 tool carousel. I think all of our production parts will fill that completely. No room for the Haimer. We will always keep those same tools loaded. It will be rare that we do anything other than production parts in the Haas. We have the Pulsar for other jobs and prototyping stuff.
All of our parts also use the same XY coordinates, so that would not change throughout the day no matter what parts we make. The Z does change with different parts.

Is it possible to retain the tool table indefinitely? Job to job and day after day without need to re calibrate tool heights?

I have the coldfire 2 controller (2015) and it retains all the offsets through power cycles and program changes etc. I only have to probe/set offsets when I change the setup. I often manually tweak the offsets and tool wear to make parts that are intentionally slightly different sizes and it remembers that too so I need to manually return those to my probed measurements when I'm done.

Is that what you are asking about ?

Yes I think so. So in effect it will keep those tools as measured until I want to change something?
I just change the work offset for Z when the part thickness and job changes?

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Originally Posted by LeeWay

Yes I think so. So in effect it will keep those tools as measured until I want to change something?
I just change the work offset for Z when the part thickness and job changes?

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Yes. The Haas control stores tool/work offsets and compensation parameters indefinitely (as long as the internal battery lasts anyway).


C|

Excellent!
Thanks, Guys.
I suspected this was the case. I just had not seen it confirmed anywhere.

I use an Edge Technologies tool setter Pro Touch Off Gage - Edge Technology

It sets to 4" above the table - I always set off the TABLE on the same location on the table with all the tools at the same time.

Then, I set an indicator in the spindle to zero on the table, then touch that indicator off the part, the distance from the table to the indicated 0 on top of the part is my G54 Z value, minus 4" since the edge tech gauge is set to 4". To make this simpler, with my VF4, I set the Z0 on the indicator at Z-22.5" - it works nicely in my collet holders, its a nice round number. I touch off the top of the part, record that dimension in the G54 Z value, and hit -18.5", it is the value I need for Z0 on G54. The reason I do this is no matter what part I throw in there, all my tool offsets are correct, only the work offset Z value changes.

Obviously the -18.5" value would change dependent on the machine - I set mine up like this - it works very well and repeats. A Haimer could also replace the indicator in my situation - which would be wise, and some day I will do if I don't get a probe and tool setter.

+1 on the aforementioned Edge Technology Pro Touch Off Gage! One of my guys brought that in and showed it to me one day, and it has simplified tool touch off. Far less error than using the old paper method!

As far as setting top of part, I typically take one of my previously touched off tools, preferably a drill of some kind, and touch it on the top of the part. Then, leaving off the minus/negative signs, take the tool touch off dimension from the tool offsets page and subtract the current position. This dimension is what is needed in the Z work offset. For example: Tool offset = -15.000 Tool current position = -13.000 The equation is 15.000 - 13.000 = 2.000 This indicates that the top of the part is 2 inches above the touch off point. Enter that 2.000 into the work offsets page for Z. If it was below, it would be a negative result. You could also, while the preferred tool is at zero on the touch off gage, zero the "operator position" for Z and then just jog to the top of the part. The Z value in the operators position then becomes the number to enter into the work offset page. No math required. This, of course, is not as accurate as using the indicator, but will definitely get you close.

Kind of off topic... JFettig, how is that 4th working out for you? Everything still working well?

Thanks, Guys.
While I am okay with all of the math if needed, I am not that confident in the Operator's ability to do this and remember it correctly the next time. I have taught him all he knows and much more than he remembers. ;)
He is used to Mach 3 and Path Pilot on stepper machines. The Haas will be more machine and a different controller.
While the Edge product is nice and I can see benefits over the Haimer, it won't be as simple as the Haimer. That said it isn't as costly and I should probably get a poster like this from John Saunders.
https://saundersmachineworks.com/col...e-a-haimer-tiphttps://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/12...g?v=1461593144

I know breakage is inevitable especially at first.
This is also the main reason I did not order the wireless touch probe system on the machine. Our production parts are all very simple parts to machine and do not require uber accuracy. While we do use a beeper on the Pulsar to find X and Y, (could also be used for Z) there is still room for error and he often simply forgets which direction to add or subtract the .2" from. Day dreaming way too much!
At least with the Haimer, there will be none of that. All subject to change of course. :)

Why not haimer and touch off?

Having used both, I think the touch off guage is easy. You set up a work offset for tool sets, then mdi it, touch each tool, zero on control, it's done. You zero that offset with the haimer at 4", so all tools are based off the haimer 0.

Using both is something that I haven't considered. I was going to do like I do now for tools. I use a digital height gauge offline and record the offsets manually. The probe makes more sense because it is done in the machine.
I appreciate that advice.

Oh and I received an email from Haas this AM. The machine is ready to ship. Original lead time was 4 to 5 weeks. Yesterday was 4 weeks exactly. So they are running pretty close to estimates.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gizmo_454

+1 on the aforementioned Edge Technology Pro Touch Off Gage! One of my guys brought that in and showed it to me one day, and it has simplified tool touch off. Far less error than using the old paper method!

As far as setting top of part, I typically take one of my previously touched off tools, preferably a drill of some kind, and touch it on the top of the part. Then, leaving off the minus/negative signs, take the tool touch off dimension from the tool offsets page and subtract the current position. This dimension is what is needed in the Z work offset. For example: Tool offset = -15.000 Tool current position = -13.000 The equation is 15.000 - 13.000 = 2.000 This indicates that the top of the part is 2 inches above the touch off point. Enter that 2.000 into the work offsets page for Z. If it was below, it would be a negative result. You could also, while the preferred tool is at zero on the touch off gage, zero the "operator position" for Z and then just jog to the top of the part. The Z value in the operators position then becomes the number to enter into the work offset page. No math required. This, of course, is not as accurate as using the indicator, but will definitely get you close.

Kind of off topic... JFettig, how is that 4th working out for you? Everything still working well?

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It's working great, thanks again! The screaming deal I got on the S5C wasn't super screaming considering it has .002" runout - might have to get it rebuilt.

The thing i like about the Edge Technology touch off - you can set your tools to about a tenth from each, I dial it within .020 with the .010 hand wheel setting then switch straight to .0001 and watch it go directly into exactly zero, even though its .001" graduations on the 2" gauge, it'll repeat quite nicely.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JFettig

It's working great, thanks again! The screaming deal I got on the S5C wasn't super screaming considering it has .002" runout - might have to get it rebuilt.

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Make sure you measure the run-out on the bore of the unit itself and not on a part in a collet.

Mike

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Originally Posted by Machineit

Make sure you measure the run-out on the bore of the unit itself and not on a part in a collet.

Mike

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Yup, I did! Luckily I have cheap collets and runout on some of them cancel out some of the runout in the rotary ;)

I'll have to get some quotes on a rebuild.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JFettig

Yup, I did! Luckily I have cheap collets and runout on some of them cancel out some of the runout in the rotary ;)

I'll have to get some quotes on a rebuild.

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That is what is called using your head! LOL Try moving it by hand too, to see if it moves. Might be able to remove the rear covers and adjust it out. I have a HA5C, is yours the older one.

Mike

Mini Mill will be here Friday morning. Exactly 5 weeks on the lead time. Excellent. Another week or so and I might actually be ready for it. ;)