Have Tree 310 w/ 3 phase power. Best solution to hook to my shops Single Phase 240 V

I just bought a Tree 310 CNC Mill with Dynapath Control (20 series I think). It uses 3 Ph 230 V 30 FLA power. My shop is wired for 240 V 200 amp Single phase power.

What is the best way to interface this machine with my shop power-- Rotary Phase Converter? Solid State Phase Converter, VFD for the spindle and 120V AC for the controller?

What size do I need and any recommendations for make/model?

Thanks,

Smitty

If the control system will run on 120V then it would make the most sense to run it from a wall plug, and power the spindle with a 3HP VFD rated for single phase input. This is the way I am running my machine. My personal preference for a VFD is the Automation Direct GS3 units. https://www.automationdirect.com/adc..._vac)/gs3-23p0

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by UtahSmitty

I just bought a Tree 310 CNC Mill with Dynapath Control (20 series I think). It uses 3 Ph 230 V 30 FLA power. My shop is wired for 240 V 200 amp Single phase power.

What is the best way to interface this machine with my shop power-- Rotary Phase Converter? Solid State Phase Converter, VFD for the spindle and 120V AC for the controller?

What size do I need and any recommendations for make/model?

Thanks,

Smitty

---

What VFD Drive and motor Hp does the machine already have, you can most likely run this with the 240v single phase supply and use ( 1 ) L1 or L2 to supply the rest of the machine

I believe that model is very similar to the XLO's I had and retro fitted, these were fitted with single speed 230v 3ph spindle motors with Vari speed head, some versions of the Tree 310 were very similar.
I replaced the vari-speed head with direct drive and used a 240v 1ph for a VFD.
The control fed from 1ph 120v.
The one down side in using a VFD with the existing controller is that it may not be able to be configured for other that direct drive to the VFD, i.e. no variable VFD speed, just start/stop. If so you will need to keep the vari-speed.
Al.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jim Dawson

If the control system will run on 120V then it would make the most sense to run it from a wall plug, and power the spindle with a 3HP VFD rated for single phase input. This is the way I am running my machine. My personal preference for a VFD is the Automation Direct GS3 units. https://www.automationdirect.com/adc..._vac)/gs3-23p0

---

Thanks, Jim. I was hoping to be able to run the spindle from a VFD and not have to get a Rotary Phase Converter. I'll have to research more and see how to do that.

Smitty

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mactec54

What VFD Drive and motor Hp does the machine already have, you can most likely run this with the 240v single phase supply and use ( 1 ) L1 or L2 to supply the rest of the machine

---

It doesn't have a VFD at present. I bought it from a guy that wanted it to help build custom off-road vehicles, but he never hooked it up, and finally lost interest.

Regards,

Smitty

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Al_The_Man

I believe that model is very similar to the XLO's I had and retro fitted, these were fitted with single speed 230v 3ph spindle motors with Vari speed head, some versions of the Tree 310 were very similar.
I replaced the vari-speed head with direct drive and used a 240v 1ph for a VFD.
The control fed from 1ph 120v.
The one down side in using a VFD with the existing controller is that it may not be able to be configured for other that direct drive to the VFD, i.e. no variable VFD speed, just start/stop. If so you will need to keep the vari-speed.Al.

---

Thanks, Al. That's good information. I converted my previous mill with a stepped pulley to run on a 2 hp treadmill motor. It worked pretty good and gave me infinitely variable speed.

I actually would like to do the same with this mill, but the motor and vari-drive seem a little daunting to try to convert over., so I figured I'd just have to go with something that would work with the 3 ph motor. I'll have to research it more.

Smitty

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by UtahSmitty

Thanks, Jim. I was hoping to be able to run the spindle from a VFD and not have to get a Rotary Phase Converter. I'll have to research more and see how to do that.

Smitty

---

If the control uses contactors to run the spindle, those can be used to switch the VFD control circuit and the wiring changes are minimal. You would only need to remove all of the 230V wiring from the contactors and wire in the VFD control wires, just simply using the contactors as control relays.

I assume the present mill has just a start stop command, if so I would find out the nature of it, as in some cases it can easily be used for the usual VFD start input it might just be a small control relay?
If going the route mentioned by Jim, I would just replace the contactor with a small control relay.
Al.

Here's some pictures of the mill. That company that last used it was cutting plastic on it and it's covered with plastic "dust". It also has some rust on it.. hopefully not too serious.

I think it has an Ericksen QC spindle nose... didn't get any Cat 30 tool holders... the ones from my Enco manual mill fit in the taper, but the ring is too large for the knurled collar to go over them.

Smitty
https://www.cnczone.com/forums/attac...d=425284&stc=1https://www.cnczone.com/forums/attac...d=425286&stc=1https://www.cnczone.com/forums/attac...d=425288&stc=1https://www.cnczone.com/forums/attac...d=425290&stc=1https://www.cnczone.com/forums/attac...d=425292&stc=1https://www.cnczone.com/forums/attac...d=425294&stc=1https://www.cnczone.com/forums/attac...d=425296&stc=1

Based on what I can see of the panel, it doesn't look like the spindle is connected to the control panel at all. Maybe there is more than the pictures show.

The QC spindle takes NMTB 30 tooling, same as my machine. A good selection on EBay. https://www.ebay.com/b/NMTB-30-Tool-.../bn_7024943710

Looks like the panel had a option for Spindle Override on some versions.
Do you have the control documentation? Generally most CNC systems have a dual controller, one for the CNC (motion) and one for the PLC (M,S,T codes) , the PLC usually has an output to turn on the spindle, at minimum.
If it does have a M3, M4, M5 even if no S command , you may be able to use this for the VFD.
Al.

Thanks, Jim. I have some various NMTB tooling for another mill and I tried to insert it in the spindle on the Tree 310. Even when I took the nut off, the outside diameter of the flange was too big to work with it. I believe this is an Erickson 30 QC spindle, but I'll have to try to find some brand name Erickson, Kennametal, or Valenite tool holders... the one's I've seen are pricey...

Smitty

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Al_The_Man

Looks like the panel had a option for Spindle Override on some versions.
Do you have the control documentation? Generally most CNC systems have a dual controller, one for the CNC (motion) and one for the PLC (M,S,T codes) , the PLC usually has an output to turn on the spindle, at minimum.
If it does have a M3, M4, M5 even if no S command , you may be able to use this for the VFD.
Al.

---

Al

I have the Dynapath book, plus some drawings, but I haven't gone through them, yet. I'll do some looking and hopefully find more information. I'd like to use a VFD as my Trak lathe uses a 10hp RPC, and I'd like to keep the load on my circuits down as much as possible.

Thanks for your information,

Smitty

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by UtahSmitty

Thanks, Jim. I have some various NMTB tooling for another mill and I tried to insert it in the spindle on the Tree 310. Even when I took the nut off, the outside diameter of the flange was too big to work with it. I believe this is an Erickson 30 QC spindle, but I'll have to try to find some brand name Erickson, Kennametal, or Valenite tool holders... the one's I've seen are pricey...

Smitty

---

I did buy some standard NMTB 30 holders, I just turned down the flange, and also narrowed it up a bit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jim Dawson

I did buy some standard NMTB 30 holders, I just turned down the flange, and also narrowed it up a bit.

---

Jim

How did you narrow up the flange? There's instructions available from Erickson on how to narrow the flange, and the dimensions, etc. but they say to use a cylindrical grinder--for accuracy I suppose.

I don't have access to a cylindrical grinder, but I do have a 12" lathe with a 4 jaw chuck. I maybe could rig up a tool post grinder but I hate to get grinding grit on the ways, etc.

Smitty

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by UtahSmitty

Jim

How did you narrow up the flange? There's instructions available from Erickson on how to narrow the flange, and the dimensions, etc. but they say to use a cylindrical grinder--for accuracy I suppose.

I don't have access to a cylindrical grinder, but I do have a 12" lathe with a 4 jaw chuck. I maybe could rig up a tool post grinder but I hate to get grinding grit on the ways, etc.

Smitty

---

I just used my 13 inch lathe and carbide tool bits, the $2.00 ones from Harbor Freight, 1/2 inch AR-8, but I suppose any decent carbide bit would do.

I didn't take any material off of the bottom of the flange, only the top. That way the original concentricity is not disturbed, the top of the flange should not touch the spindle nose before the taper is fully engaged, there should be a bit of clearance between the flange and the spindle nose when seated in the taper.

Over the years I have scrounged up some genuine Erickson QC holders at pretty good prices, so they are out there if a bit hard to find. EBay is a pretty good source as is Craigslist.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jim Dawson

I just used my 13 inch lathe and carbide tool bits, the $2.00 ones from Harbor Freight, 1/2 inch AR-8, but I suppose any decent carbide bit would do.

I didn't take any material off of the bottom of the flange, only the top. That way the original concentricity is not disturbed, the top of the flange should not touch the spindle nose before the taper is fully engaged, there should be a bit of clearance between the flange and the spindle nose when seated in the taper.

Over the years I have scrounged up some genuine Erickson QC holders at pretty good prices, so they are out there if a bit hard to find. EBay is a pretty good source as is Craigslist.

---

Ok... I thought a good carbide bit might do it. I'm a little confused, though... all of the toolhoolders I checked had a gap between the spindle nose and the toolholder flange, what I understand you calling the top of the flange. It seems to me that if the collar's too thick, you'd have to take material off the tool bit side (bottom??) of the flange to allow the collar to operate.

Just wondering...

Smitty

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by UtahSmitty

Ok... I thought a good carbide bit might do it. I'm a little confused, though... all of the toolhoolders I checked had a gap between the spindle nose and the toolholder flange, what I understand you calling the top of the flange. It seems to me that if the collar's too thick, you'd have to take material off the tool bit side (bottom??) of the flange to allow the collar to operate.

Just wondering...

Smitty

---

OK, a senior moment, I'm 70 so I can have those. :) I did those about 5 years ago. You made me get up from my chair and go out the the shop to look at a modified tool holder. You are correct, I did take the material off of the tool bit side.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jim Dawson

OK, a senior moment, I'm 70 so I can have those. :) I did those about 5 years ago. You made me get up from my chair and go out the the shop to look at a modified tool holder. You are correct, I did take the material off of the tool bit side.

---

LOL No problem. I'm 65, and my senior moments are turning into hours... thanks for all your help.

Smitty

The 310 has no spindle drive, the hole in the panel for spindle was only for J325/J425 machines that had a VFD for spindle control. The control and drives are single phase, and I don't think the 310's came with a coolant pump which was 3 phase.
I would get a 3-4hp VFD and wire the spindle motor to that, and use single phase for the rest of the machine, or just use it as a phase converter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by underthetire

The 310 has no spindle drive, the hole in the panel for spindle was only for J325/J425 machines that had a VFD for spindle control. The control and drives are single phase, and I don't think the 310's came with a coolant pump which was 3 phase.
I would get a 3-4hp VFD and wire the spindle motor to that, and use single phase for the rest of the machine, or just use it as a phase converter.

---

Thanks, that's good to know. I think I'll follow that route.

Smitty

Ok, so long time since I posted to this thread. After spending almost 3 years trying to get my shop set up, I came to the realization I need to just get rid of some of my machines as I'll never have time to get them working and learn how to program them. So...

I put the Tree 310 up for sale. However, I still haven't figured out how to isolate the spindle so I can run it with a VFD and use single phase power for the rest of the controls, etc.

I thought I had a manual with drawings, but, after 3 years I can't find them.

So, I'm asking for some help... I have uploaded some pictures that show the wiring. The 240 V 3 phase comes into a smaller cabinet (Electrical cabinet.jpg) at the back of the machine. There's a main switch on the right side (when looking at the panel), and wires running to the lube motor which is 3 phase. There's a number of contactors or relays, but the 3 phase power leaves the cabinet on the left side. It is a bundle of red and black wires with one green ground wire, which can be seen in the picture.


Once the wire enters the larger cabinet (CNC Cabinet.jpg), it goes through 3 fuzes, then two of the wires, L1 and L2 go into Transformer 2 (the smaller one above the much larger Transformer 1) and also to the small relay to the left of the transformers. The 3rd wire from the fuzes--the red one on the left at the bottom of the fuzes, goes up to the top of the large terminal block which is labeled "AC Bus Input" (upside down in the red area at the top) on the right of the Baldor drivers.

The controller is a Dynapath Delta 20M (Dynapath D20 Tag.jpg). The machine serial number and info is shown on the picture (Tree 310 Data Plate)

So, I hope that is enough information that someone could help me know where to disconnect the 3 phase power and run it directly to the spindle motor, and where to connect single phase power (240 or 120 V as needed).

I have a static phase converter that's rated from 2 to 5 hp, and have a 7.5 hp VFD coming that should be here Monday. I'd appreciate any recommendations you might have.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Smitty

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by UtahSmitty

Ok, so long time since I posted to this thread. After spending almost 3 years trying to get my shop set up, I came to the realization I need to just get rid of some of my machines as I'll never have time to get them working and learn how to program them. So...

I put the Tree 310 up for sale. However, I still haven't figured out how to isolate the spindle so I can run it with a VFD and use single phase power for the rest of the controls, etc.

I thought I had a manual with drawings, but, after 3 years I can't find them.

So, I'm asking for some help... I have uploaded some pictures that show the wiring. The 240 V 3 phase comes into a smaller cabinet (Electrical cabinet.jpg) at the back of the machine. There's a main switch on the right side (when looking at the panel), and wires running to the lube motor which is 3 phase. There's a number of contactors or relays, but the 3 phase power leaves the cabinet on the left side. It is a bundle of red and black wires with one green ground wire, which can be seen in the picture.


Once the wire enters the larger cabinet (CNC Cabinet.jpg), it goes through 3 fuzes, then two of the wires, L1 and L2 go into Transformer 2 (the smaller one above the much larger Transformer 1) and also to the small relay to the left of the transformers. The 3rd wire from the fuzes--the red one on the left at the bottom of the fuzes, goes up to the top of the large terminal block which is labeled "AC Bus Input" (upside down in the red area at the top) on the right of the Baldor drivers.

The controller is a Dynapath Delta 20M (Dynapath D20 Tag.jpg). The machine serial number and info is shown on the picture (Tree 310 Data Plate)

So, I hope that is enough information that someone could help me know where to disconnect the 3 phase power and run it directly to the spindle motor, and where to connect single phase power (240 or 120 V as needed).

I have a static phase converter that's rated from 2 to 5 hp, and have a 7.5 hp VFD coming that should be here Monday. I'd appreciate any recommendations you might have.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Smitty

---

The static Phase converter will not be of any use, and you should not even try and use it.

The VFD Drives input power will be connected using L1 and L2 Plus Ground, if you have something in your cabinet that needs 120v then you will have to have a 4-wire supply that would have L1 L2 Neutral and Ground

The VFD Drive will connect direct to the spindle U V W Plus Ground will need to be a 4-wire Shielded cable this will go direct to the spindle motor and the VFD Drive output

I can't make heads or tails out of that rats nest of wiring. It looks like the red and yellow wires might feed the servo drives, but not sure about that. I would just have to trace wires to see what they do. You may have to trace wires and draw a schematic to understand how that was wired up. I have no idea what the input voltage is to the servo drive bus, I really can't see how it's wired.

For the spindle motor:
Carefully place the static phase converter on a back shelf somewhere and forget you have it. For the VFD, trace the conduit from the spindle motor back to the panel, disconnect the motor wires from what ever they are connected to. Connect those wires to the VFD output terminals. Connect 240V single phase to the input terminals on the VFD, per the instruction manual. When set up, the spindle motor should run.

I second the wiring trace and produce a decent schematic, important for present setting up and future trouble shooting.

Mactec

Thanks for your response. I understand I need to hook up to the L1 and L2 wires. I just don't know at what point in the wiring I need to hook it up, and which wires need to be disconnected, etc.


Regards,

Smitty

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jim Dawson

I can't make heads or tails out of that rats nest of wiring. It looks like the red and yellow wires might feed the servo drives, but not sure about that. I would just have to trace wires to see what they do. You may have to trace wires and draw a schematic to understand how that was wired up. I have no idea what the input voltage is to the servo drive bus, I really can't see how it's wired.

For the spindle motor:
Carefully place the static phase converter on a back shelf somewhere and forget you have it. For the VFD, trace the conduit from the spindle motor back to the panel, disconnect the motor wires from what ever they are connected to. Connect those wires to the VFD output terminals. Connect 240V single phase to the input terminals on the VFD, per the instruction manual. When set up, the spindle motor should run.

---

Thanks for your feedback.

I started drawing a schematic, but need to clean it up so it's easier to understand. Near as I can tell, the 3 phase power goes from the electrical cabinet to the CNC control cabinet where the L1 and L2 are connected to the large fuzes seen at the top right of the cabinet. The red wire does go up to the the servo drives. The yellow wire actually starts out red, but the yellow wire was spliced into it... not sure why.

The 3 smaller fuzes in the electrical panel are for the lube system, and possibly for the Spindle switch, which has a push button On/Off, and then a 3 position switch for Off, I and II, wihich I assume is for Forward and Reverse.
I do have some schematics for the Tree 325 Journeyman, which seems to be at least similar. I also downloaded some schematics from the Dynapath site, but they don't match the wire numbers etc. in the cabinet.


Anyway, if anyone has a wiring diagram and operating manual for it that I could get a copy of I'd appreciate it

Thanks again,

Smitty

You need to set up proper 1ph fusing for the VFD supply, Many manuals show the power through a NFB (non-fused breaker) followed by a contactor for E-stop purposes per NFPA79.
If concerned about dropping the contactor during spindle use, NEC allows a Category 1 "controlled Stop" where you can use the at zero speed output in order to retain the contactor until the output registers zero rpm before release of the contactor.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by UtahSmitty

Mactec

Thanks for your response. I understand I need to hook up to the L1 and L2 wires. I just don't know at what point in the wiring I need to hook it up, and which wires need to be disconnected, etc.


Regards,

Smitty

---

You will have a contactor that is for the spindle start, there will be (2) together if it had Forward / Reverse, this will be 3ph this is where you would start, some close-up photos of the contactors and and wiring would help

Looking at the first cabinet where the main power supply comes in, that looks like it goes to (2) contactors at the Bottom, (1) will be to the Power On for the Transformer the other to power up the rest of the system, there are a lot of contactors in that Box you will have to see what each one is for (2) will be for the spindle so see where the wires go, to and from each contactor