Not to chase you away from this forum (and I for one hope you post your build here) but I would check out what the fellows are doing in the MetalWorking forums. Some very talented guys who probably have more ideas of what is needed for soft metals milling.
Here's one of the latest builds to inspire you (though it's a budget breaker!)
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/vertic...ml#post1196771
You are absolutely right. to be honest, i've only used a real mill which was a large bridgeport at work (quit that job though) so i did not even think about re positioning the piece. so the debate is which mill to get.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastest1
When i said the comment about adding the cnc to mills, they were in reference to large bridgeport mills, I completely forgot and overlooked the bench top/smaller garage units. This is what i will be looking for.
You are right, it SOUNDS out of my budget lol. I'm confident enough in my product to invest in tools to produce it myself as i think I can recoup my investment rather fast. also by breaking even, and having the machine, opens my capabilities to making/designing more products =)Quote:
Originally Posted by louieatienza
I have taken my hard hat off and decided to go the milling machine route. I'll be looking to purchase one and add the cnc shortly (hopefully)Quote:
Originally Posted by BanduraMaker
Absolutely not louieatienza. You guys have been MORE then helpful and I look up to your wealth of knowledge and really appreciate you guys teaching me. I am a member of a few dozen forums and honestly, this has got to be one of the most helpful and kind communities ive been a part of. Thank you guys!Quote:
Originally Posted by louieatienza
So as of right now, it looks like i will be going with a milling machine. BUT that does not mean I'm not going to build a CNC table. It will just take the back burner and be my weekend get away project. The focus will shift to "engraving" rather then cnc'ing aluminum plate:D
Just WOW. That thing is sweet!Quote:
Originally Posted by louieatienza
From what I've seen, most people with Solsylva machines address the issues by building better machines.Quote:
See this is what i dont get, everyone says not to use a wood cnc because it has xyz problems. but if those are addressed why cant it be done?
rigidity- add extra bracing and make it out of stronger material.......................................... .................................................. .................................................. .............................................
.................................................. .......this is what im having a hard time grasping. all the "flaws and problems" seem like they can be address, just no one is addressing them... Now if you guys were saying it just isnt cost efficient, then i can completely understand that...
You can only address so many issues before you end up with a completely different machine.
Each time you improve one part of the machine, the weakness just gets moved to a different component. At some point you end up switching to good quality linear bearings. If you're patient, you can get some good deals on used ones from Ebay. Or buy Hiwins, which are at the lower end of the price range.
But be aware that once you get to this point, you'll usually be in the $4000-$5000 range.
You also need to consider that the fabrication of a more rigid and heavy duty machine requires a different set of tools, and different skills than a lot of people building an entry level router possess.
Here's a router built exclusively to cut aluminum. It's been used on a regular basis, for several years now. http://www.cnczone.com/forums/diy-cn..._finished.html
Just another angle... I don't think it would be a bad idea to build the Solsylva, as long as you know what to expect of it. I used mine for almost two years without modification. That's not to say it had been easy sailing, but I did cut my teeth on that machine, and I wouldn't trade the experience either.
There are definitely more than a few people here who have built a machine, to get it satisfactorily running, and use it to build its own parts, or even parts for another (better) machine. Having done both, it is a fun experience, but it doesn't necessarily pay the bills. I did make two upgrades, more of necessity than anything else. I gave my Solsylva to a friend, for his wood projects, and it is more than adequate for that task. In fact I probably wouldn't know what I do, and learned all I have, without building that machine.
So if you do build that Solsylva, I recommend you don't stray too much from the plans. It would be fruitless to overbuild it, and have parts (other than the electronics and screws) that you cannot use on an upgrade. Be as frugal as possible; then when you run it you'll know what parts need addressing.
I have a gantry router/mill in progress with it's main function to machine aluminum plate. I used Misumi's GFS aluminum extrusions, which have greater wall thicknesses than other so-called heavy duty extrusions. They even come with milled surfaces, eliminating the need to do so. I scavenged eBay for THK profile rails and ground ballscrews. My larger router is set up now for primarily cutting Garolite, and my new small router will make the rest of the parts for the aluminum router. While I won't be taking mill-sized cuts, it should be fine for what I need it to do.
That is understood, thats why i backed out of the solsylva plans a while back. I began looking at it and saw id much rather make it out of steel. From there i knew i wanted to simplify it and design my own. You are right on with the price point and thats whats really shying me away at this time. the cost goes up and a lot of people are saying its not really capable of doing the tasks i intend for it to do efficiently.Quote:
Originally Posted by ger21
I am also aware of the skill set that these plans are tailored to, and im more then capable of doing so. I have the basic table saws, miter saws, drill press, to a small metal lathe, a stomp shear, 2 brakes etc. hence why i was leaning towards steel as well. being able to weld would save money on hardware and all the time drilling and lining things up.
That build looks crazy! Im starting to understand more what you guys mean by rigid.. i thought when i said i was going to build it out of 1/4" and 1/2" square tubing it would be overkill.. then i saw some other builds and thats still considered puny!
When i do go forward with this build, the solylva is definitely out of the picture. I feel like i can simplify it more and easier to build out of steel. should be fun! the Tubing is fairly cheap so I may just go head and "build" the table and gantry without buying all the components and go from there.Quote:
Originally Posted by louieatienza
To be honest I hate CAD work. I'm very visual, i rather work with my hands then design on the computer.. ill end up whipping up a "study model" and see what everyone thinks before i go crazy lol- yes i know this post is doesnt make sense.. "if i like making things with my hands and hate doing cad work why am i making a cnc" lol because i get tired too!(chair)
ok so its been a while and i'm back at it!
My biggest decision right now is deciding on electronics..
I'm basically looking at my options from automation technologies inc.
my choices seem to be:
1 pcs G540 4 axis driver with 4pcs DB9 connectors
3 pcs NEMA23 KL23H2100-35-4B(1/4” Dual shaft with a flat) 381 oz-in
1 pcs KL-350-48 48V/7.3A 115V /230VAC power supply
$475
G540 4 axis Stepper Driver with 4 pcs DB9 connectors
Three NEMA34 3 KL34H260-35-4B (1/2" Dual Shaft 465 oz-in)
one KL-350-48 48V/7.3A 115V /230V Power Supply
$567
CNC 3 Axis Stepper Motor Kit with 425 oz-in motor and KL-4030 Bipolar Driver with 36V /9.7A Power Supply (110V/220VAC):
(3) NEMA23 KL23H286-20-8B, 425 oz-in stepping motors,(1/4” dual shaft with a flat)
(3) KL- 4030 Micro stepping Driver(3.0Amp 24-40 Volts, 1-1/64 )
(1) KL-350-36 36V/9.7A 36VDC/ 9.7A Power Supply 110VAC/220VAC
(1) C10 6 axis Breakout board
(1) 5V power supply 110VAc/220VAC
$390
(3) KL23H2100-50-4B 570 oz-in stepping motors, NEMA 23
(3) KL-5056D Digital Bipolar Stepper Motor Driver-32 bit DSP Based
(1) 48VDC /12 .5A Power Supply 110VAC/220VAC
(1) C10 Breakout board
(1) 5V power supply 110VAC/220VAC
$590
From what I've seen, 425oz nema 23 motors have been sufficient to cut aluminum. Is the 381oz to 425oz motor that big of a difference? Amps is how much power the motor needs correct? or does higher amperage mean stronger motor?
i really do not want to upgrade down the line, im looking for something middle-high end range. What would you guys recommend? I'm leaning towards one of the g540 kits because of all the things i hear about gecko and the g540...
however if i piece my own kit together off of their site i can get:
g540- $280
power supply (7.3A)- $50
(3) Nema 23 570oz motors- 54
totaling $495
Thoughts? ^^ this would be my ideal combination. Any opinion would be greatly appreciated! I hope to have all the parts around Christmas/New years time.
I also just placed my order for linear rails, ball screws and couplers. I'll head to the metal supply shop soon to start picking up material for the frame =)
CNC Router Parts has a better record of after-the-sale customer support and has a similar kit, or you can get the individual parts you need from them.
The G540 can only provide 3.5 amps. The 570 oz motors require 5 amps. When driven by a G540, the torque would be reduced by about 30%, making them act like 400 oz motors.
The best performing motors for use with the G540 are the 381 oz motors from Automation Technologies. They'll give you the most power across the widest rpm of anything else.
Larger motors will have slightly more torque at very low rpm's, but much less at higher rpm.
Smaller motors might have slightly more torque at very high rpm's (over 1000), but less at lower rpm.
Basically, the G540 and 381 oz motors will outperform everything else you mentioned, except possibly the 570's with KL5056 drives. Note, however, that the 5056 is rated at 45Volts. The 48 volt supply may kill the drives from too much voltage?
The size of the stepper and the ability to cut aluminum on your machine are only loosely related. Rigidity is more important as is an adjustable spindle RPM and the correct tooling. Like ger21 said, the 381 oz. motors are a very good choice. I put some 291 oz. motors on mine and I plan to cut some aluminum, but mostly wood.Quote:
Originally Posted by muibubbles
I also agree the G540 is a great choice. I would add that there are other factors that my affect your stepper choice. Depending on the leadscrews you use, you may want to use a smaller stepper to have higher torque at higher speeds, or a larger stepper with a multi-start leadscrew. I'd guess with the Solsylva style rails and bearings, I'd tend to use the 380in-oz steppers, but if you have everything lined up and tuned well you could use smaller steppers.
I just built a smaller mill with 200in-oz steppers and 1/2"-8, 2 start (4tpi) screws, and I couldn't stall the axes leaning my weight on the machine. My Solsylva ran 1/2"-8, 8 start leadscrews and 425in-oz steppers, with a belt running two screws for the gantry.
Thanks for the recomendation, I think I will use them instead. I dont remember if I called or emailed automation technologies but i just remember having a bad taste from them, I think I was asking a noob question and they were very sour towards me. I'll spend my $500 elsewhere!!Quote:
Originally Posted by CarveOne
Thank you for the explanation, they helps out a lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by ger21
By the way i as looking at these 570 motors..
NEMA 23 Frame,
KL23H2100-35-4BM
570 oz In. Hybrid Stepper Motor
1.8° / 200 Steps Per Rev.
3.5 Amps Current,
4-wire, Bi-polar,
1/4" dual shaft,
Automation has a 3.5a and 5a version if i understand it correctly..
I see, im just undecided if im going to make the gantry from welded steel or bolting aluminum pieces together.. If I go the steel route i was just concerned the weight might weight too much? or maybe im just over thinking it....Quote:
Originally Posted by Devastator
I will be using ballscrews.. I just ordered this package...Quote:
Originally Posted by louieatienza
6pcs Linear Rails 3 ballscrews RM1605 3BK BF 3COUPLERS | eBay
Also looks like ill go with the g540 and 380oz motors from CNC router parts!
3 Axis Electronics Kit | CNCRouterParts
Also what CAM program do you guys recommend for a beginner? Are' there any free ones? I'm looking at vectrics software but im not sure which one would suit my needs the best... I'm thinking 2d?
IMO, there is no such thing as overthinking when building your own CNC. A properly engineered steel gantry will not weigh significantly more than a properly engineered aluminum gantry for the same rigidity. You have to assess your fabrication skills to decide which to build.Quote:
Originally Posted by muibubbles
Providing you build a structure that is plumb, your rails parallel, your leadscrews free of friction, you'd be surprised how much weight a nema 23 motor can move. A properly designed and assembled gantry can be pushed with very light finger pressure when not attached to your leadscrews. Where you'll notice the weight is when setting acceleration for the motors. If I had to choose between added weight or a faster acceleration, I'd choose the weight every time. Your machine will be less prone to chatter and resonance and your cuts will be smoother.
Good luck.
muibubbles, maybe reconsider your evaluation of Automation Technologies. They are excellent also. As you stated, you might have asked Noob questions. I understand the frustration on your part. I have also found in this hobby that I am not understanding a relationship of parts and or being able to express myself accurately. There are so many challenging angles here. As you are finding out in stepper selection alone.
Even the 280in-oz steppers from GeckoDrive would probably be sufficient, if you consider the ballscrews you will be using are at least 90% efficient, as opposed to leadscrews which can be 30-60% efficient. I believe the Gecko steppers are made by Lin Engineering which make top-quality steppers. And they are more likely capable at runing at higher speeds and built better. Most higeher-quality steppers can run at voltages way past the cheaper motors, meaning more torque availabe at higher speeds.Quote:
Originally Posted by muibubbles
I read this concern all of the time about stepper size and it is legitimate. I have been either smart or lucky as all of my conversions have worked pretty well and would cut any material put in front of them if everything was set up correctly. Maybe not fast but it would cut.
So I am reading a member Marty's thread on his conversion of a rather large mill by hobbyist standards for sure, a Dyna DM4400. This machine will cut anything you put in front of it, accurately and pretty quickly. Maybe not as quick as a modern machine of comparable size but every bit as accurate. Get this, ALL axis were driven by 140 oz. steppers.
https://picasaweb.google.com/marty.escarcega/DynaDM4400#