wooden sandals

Hi! First, my apologies if I'm posting in the wrong forum. Secondly, my apologies for not knowing anything about CNCs... but that's why I'm posting :)

I'm a shoemaker, and I'm working on some wedge sandals like these:
http://www.mohop.com/annie/CherryPostWedges-sm.jpg

Currently, I make them on my bandsaw, but I have trouble keeping up with demand, so I need a faster way of making them. Is it possible to make these on a CNC machine? If so, how expensive of a machine am I looking at? How fast do you think would it be per shoe? (an example of the wood I start with is also shown in the photo...)

Or would it be better to have these made by a manufacturer? If so, can you manufacture these for me, or do you know of a company who could?

Thanks so much for your help, I know that's a lot of big questions for a first post here!

Those are nice.. How many are you wanting? And what's the proposed selling price?

I'm not totally sure how many I'll need - in the near future, probably around 50 pairs a month, in the longer term perhaps 300-500 pairs per month???

The wholesale price will be about $85, so I need to keep the unit price of the wood base, including wood and labor, in the $20-30 range or less, as there's a lot of finishing that still needs to be done to complete the shoe.

Currently, it only takes me about 20-25 minutes to cut these out and sand them, but if a CNC machine could make them faster with less effort on my part, then I'm all for it!

Cutting them with an end mill would be way to slow, and you'd more than likely have to do just as much sanding.

Consider building a part specific machine maybe... Less cost, and less options as far as work, but could be much faster... Cost effective... If you want speed it will be in quantity, with machines...

I have some machines I use to make resin pottery with and I built them for around $6500, but 1 man can make 1 pot ($25-$225) every 8 minutes. Price is dictated by size... I have 8 machines that do the work of 40 men...

I can imagine a machine, but I think it would be like a race car to take the kids to school in.

Last thought? ANYBODY WITH A CUTTING LASER OUT THERE? HOW DEEP WILL IT CUT IN WOOD? SAY A 100 WATT CO2?

I'll guess it'll take a much bigger one than 100, which I have been looking at.. It is around $6800 freight and all.. But this may be the way..

500x85=42500x12=510,000x5=2,550,000, so you can stand a pretty good investment after the ball is rolling... A good machine is do-able, if you can meet your projected sales... A bank would back you after you have your belt on tight with a little to show...

Somebody fill us in on a CUTTING LASER? PLEASE...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ayphotohosting I did spy this just now... There is a 5 inch lense included, not sure how it all works yet.... It may just FLAME it...

Laser won't work for material that thick, especially a 100 watt. This is definitely a job for a router.

With all the slanted contours, a 3-axis CNC machine will give a pretty rough cut, requiring heavy sanding afterwards. You said it takes you 20-25 minutes per shoe including sanding, so I'm not sure if a 3-axis machine would really be worth it to you.

A 5-axis machine would reduce sanding significantly, as the cutter would tilt to follow the slant, but the investment for one of those machines can be pretty hefty. Probably not in the cards at this time.

A "rotoshaper", which is a specialized(customized) machine that is entirely mechanical and runs off cams and patterns, could probably cut those things out at a rate of one every 2 minutes. But probably in the same price range as a 5-axis CNC machine.

Are your shoes customized as far as wood selection and such? Do you offer them in all sizes or just a few?

Before you THINK OF A ROUTER first figure the TIME it will TAKE for a 1/2" ball mill to TRAVEL around the shoe... Stepping .125, that would be a looooooong ways in 25 minutes out of that big material...

What ever path IT IS TO FAR to compare with 25 minutes..

You will have to have a machine with multipul heads to compete with 25 minutes....


EDIT;;; I just got my email back http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...DME:L:RTQ:US:1 this guy says that his laser will do it easily.. lololo

The very best machine you can get for this is something like a Bacci 3d copy lathe or something like it. Go to www.exfactory.com and look under copy lathes. You will probably find several with names like Bacci or Zuckermann. These machines carve and sand in the same process on larger products but the shoes would still have to be sanded. I know where there is a 3 spindle Bacci for sale along with some production inflatable pump sanders. I might also be able to get you in touch with some productions houses but you will need to take a larger quantitiy to get them interested. Sorry....I've been in the same boat so many times.

Mike

ps a copy lathe would spit from 3 to 12 of those out about every 5-8 minutes. It would take you nearly as long to set the blocks in the centers than it would to do the job.

I am thinking shaper. I have seen shapers used with a 3" dia, 5" tall cylinder with carbide inserts (they also use these cutters in jointers) with a 3" follower bearing . These cutters can "eat" stock at a tremendous rate, and leaves a very smooth finish. They basically attach the stock to a template, and go to town. To see this tool, look at grizzly tools for shapers.

However, your shoe has more of a 3d contour than a 2.5d contour, so I am thinking of a two-piece pattern. The bottom piece would be a stationary, somewhat spherical pad, with the second pattern part (guided by hand) sliding around the spherical part, to effect the stock w/template riding along the follower-bearing at the appropriate angle.

Your product is quite beautiful, and I am happy for you that you have found a well-paying niche market.

Good luck,

Rob

I have only one question?

If you use any machine at all, how will you machine ALL 4 SIDES? I am pretty sure you'll need a machine built to do what you want... Where it will be doing the rotation of the shoe for the other cuts.....

I wrote 2 pages but I figured it was to much information, and I think that you should look for some cheap manual labor until you get to 500 pair per day demand... 3 guys could more than tripple production.. run it in stages.. two sawers and one sander... several saws and sanders set up for a specific cut/finishing......You run QC while applying the straps and bottoms...

I have experianced many different feilds of production from clay pottery to cotton mills to saw mills to a hole lot more... machine built for you BY AN AUTOMATION SPECILEST IS WHAT YOU NEED....... logic and switches and simple mechanics....1000's per day...

Here is one of the machines I was refering to.http://www.irsauctions.com/auctions/...picts/621D.jpg

"Print | Close
(1987) Machine parts of chairs & furniture, rifle stocks, tool handles, sandals, hangers, sport items, musical instruments, etc., 220V, 60hz, 220/380/440v, Wired 440V, Complete sound enclosure, Hopper feed, Pneu. chucking, (4) Sanding belts, 4-Spindle Machine (2 Left & 2 Right), Max. copy dia. 165mm, Max. copy length 1000mm, Cutter dia. 75mm, Shaft speed 5300 rpm, Carriage feed speed 3 nr, Feed speed min/mm 75- 200, Spindle rotation rpm 25-42, Cutter head motors 10hp, 230/460v, Motor for the feed 1kw, 0.75hp, 230/460v, Sanding head motor 3hp, 230/460v, Net weight 1180kg, Gross weight 1500kg, Overall dimensions mm 2340/2840 x 900 x 1950 , Cutterheads work against the grain of the wood permitting the performance of curves with a min. ration of 18mm, Mat. #214 "

Notice one of the items it says it will make!

Mike

Great machine but this one you listed will only do the sandel on bottom top left and right... It will not take more than 6.5 inches, so the toe and heel of a sandel could not be finished...

Pretty cool machine though... I still think about 30-50k custom machine would be best.. Take it from block to box, well after sales get up...Other wise some $9 per hour guy's...

pc even with a cnc router you are still going to have to hold the parts and there will normally be some area that is going to have to be hand finished. I owned one of these machines and I can tell you that if you need production they work. Agreed....they're not perfect, but you must not forget that this pupply will also sand the part on the area that is carved......all in that few minutes of time. To work on this particular shoe/sandal design the sanding heads will need to be re-worked with smaller contact sanding spindles, but it's done all the time.

Mike

It would be the thing for gun stocks, just think the shoe is small enough to have robotic fixtures, and could finish the shoe, sole and all?

Thanks so much for your thoughful input, everyone! You've given me a lot to look into. I do have a variety of sizes, heel heights, toe shapes, etc., which also complicates matters.

I guess in the shorter term, I'll hire some more productive, labor-oriented help. So far, my employees have all been fashion students and graduates - we're an all-girl woodshop :D We were hoping there'd be something that would spit out shoes at the push of a button, Jetsons-style... doesn't sound like we can do anything near that on my budget.

Thanks again!!!

mohop, you always have the option of having the sandels roughed out by outside vendors and then do the finish sanding and finish in house.

Mike

You might want to get in touch with a friend of mine. He may have some useful ideas for you. You can find him on the web http://www.srwhitecarving.com/ tell him Al sent you.

-Al

Thanks so much, Al!

~Annie