Acramatic 850sx won't finish boot
Hi folks,
Have a Cincinnati Sabre 1000 with an Acramatic 850sx control that stopped booting up last month. Was cutting parts the day prior, then shutoff in the evening and no boot the next morning. Nothing bumped or worked on in the cabinet between the two days. After working with Fives on a few ideas I'm stuck, and wondering if anyone else has encountered this?
Control and operator stations move through the boot cycle just fine until the end, when the two should handshake on the serial connection and be ready, but the operator station is stuck at "host control initializing" on the first screen and the control box is stuck with an amber run light (signifying booting, not ready) and no error leds. (video -- https://youtu.be/KirFUfg7cIA) Have tried reseating and visually inspecting cards in the control chassis and I/O rack, multiple boots with the diagnostic switches on and off, and with connectors removed. Also tried a soft recovery procedure on the mmc card. This week I bypassed the old serial data wire between the control and op station in case of a short but no change.
Fives is to the point of suggesting I buy and old control and op station and try swapping those around, but I'm hoping there are simpler/cheaper things to try. Especially if I need to pay them $1500+ to reflash a system eprom from a salvage control board. Anyone have suggestions?
Thanks,
John
Re: Acramatic 850sx won't finish boot
Do you have the Service Manual ? The four Switches numbered 1-4 below the LED's can do different things...like to enter into Service Mode or to completely Reload System from HDD.
DJ
Re: Acramatic 850sx won't finish boot
I'm assuming Cincinnati had you check your power supply voltages already to ensure they are normal. If not, I would start by verifying that.
Assuming your voltages are OK, I believe your LED's are pointing to a communication issue on the NIBA (or possibly SIBA in your machine), which would normally require repair/replacement of that board (assuming the selector switch wasn't accidentally changed).
If you do get to the point of needing an OSA, let me know. I still have one that I haven't needed to use for years and would be willing to part with. I don't believe I have a PCA or MIA to help you though.
Re: Acramatic 850sx won't finish boot
From the video it looks like the control is not talking to the I/O NIBA or SIBA in the I/O card rack as maver1k pointed out. If you lost the battery backed up I/O system e-prom software the control would still load up completely. You would have the standard run screen but the machine would not start. You also need to look at the power supply in the I/O card rack this will cause the same error.
MIKE CNC Machine Services INC | Cincinnati Milacron MachinesCNC Machine Services
Re: Acramatic 850sx won't finish boot
Did you check the CMOS Battery voltage ? I worked on a 950 control one time that would not see the CPU Cards at bootup and would just hang. Turned out to be the Battery Pack was bad and was pulling down the Voltage....
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/VkYAA...Ve/s-l1600.jpg
Battery... https://www.alliedelec.com/product/t...42-w/70102893/
SuperCap FS 5.5v 1.0f ... https://www.tokin.com/english/produc...cap_manual.pdf
SuperCap is soldered to the pcb...so, if this needs replaced get a Pro
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-vishay...kAAOSw1ulcRoVl
Re: Acramatic 850sx won't finish boot
Thanks for all the ideas. Will go over to the machine tomorrow and try them out.
Assume ps voltages for the control are listed in the service manual? Will look through that and check at the test points on the DIMP board. Had verified green analog and digital pwr LEDs on the control, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're good, just doing something.
Had the IO rack ps rebuilt once and then I replaced it a couple years ago, so that should be good but I'll check that too. When that failed back then the control still loaded but gave me an IO error alarm at the OSA and the machine wouldn't startup or move after the control booted but I did get a full PCA boot.
Have tried a boot sequence with only the OSA connector attached to the control, so any issues with motor drives or IO shouldn't have affected boot. Would have expected an error about the IO not being present, but it didn't get that far and hung at exactly the same point as when it was connected. That's why I think I've narrowed down the fault to the PCA, the OSA, or the connection between them.
I ordered a spare battery and supercap from mouser that should be here later in the week. Question though-- if I swap out the battery and/or the cap on the MMC, what data will I lose? I have all programs backed up, and can rebuilt work and tool offset tables easily enough. But I'm a little concerned about the commissioning data and other stuff, or doing something that'll require an expensive system reflash. I did make a sxparam dump back in 2015 though. I expect the current battery could be original to the machine from 1993 and the cap certainly ought to be.
--John
Re: Acramatic 850sx won't finish boot
At the machine today. Checked voltages on the pins for the DIMP board and they were all OK. Also checked the battery on the MMC and it's at 3.6 V though shows an Apr 1992 manufacture date.
Fuses on the input for the control power supply are all good, as is the input power for the I/O rack. If the I/O serial interface is unplugged, will the control and OSA still boot and pair up? Assume they would, but give me an alert about the I/O afterward. Have been unplugging the I/O serial to try and narrow down the issue with no change.
If the dsub connectors for the motor drives aren't connected to the control rack I get no green APWR LED. Assume that's normal? DPWR is always green.
Is there something at the OSA end that could cause this issue beyond a bad cable? Display gets stuck with a solid "host control initializing" when control goes amber and hangs.
Anyone in the Columbus OH area that can work on these machines?
Thanks,
John
Re: Acramatic 850sx won't finish boot
Quote:
Originally Posted by
John-INTENSE
I did make a sxparam dump back in 2015 though.
--John
Have you tried reloading that backup commissioning data ?
I was reading an old thread here about someone elses 850sx
https://www.cnczone.com/forums/uncat...-question.html
Re: Acramatic 850sx won't finish boot
Call Fives-Cincinnati Support at 1-800-934-0735 ; listen to the prompt for Tech-Support & Cincinnati, or call 1-859-534-4700 for the Fives-Cincinnati Operator.
Our Tech Support is no-charge; but we do try to sell parts...
Mike Trunk is a Guru on the 850/850SX/850IDS
Greg Wood can help with the UK Vertical and Turning w/ A2100 or Fanuc controls...
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Re: Acramatic 850sx won't finish boot
Does anyone have this book with chapter 5, start-up and troublingshooting procedures?
https://www.cnczone.com/forums/attac...d=451360&stc=1
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Re: Acramatic 850sx won't finish boot
Re: Acramatic 850sx won't finish boot
If the 3.6V Tadrian Battery on the MMC card went dead you lose any data the you can change by hand and the MCL (PLC) Software and the parameters and the Control Options.
The MMC card needs to be sent back to be reloaded with the software and options logged in the "Blue" Control Configuration Book; parameters need to be put in and the MTB Panel DEFS need to be entered.... Fives High Precision Machines has the original Microfilm by Machine Serial Number and could help.
