Re: New here and to lasers
I just finished being where you are. Thanks to folks here on the forum, I settled on a Rabbit Laser. It was just installed by the folks from Rabbit Laser It is the 6040 model with a 60 watt laser. I am now diving into photos and we will see how that goes. I really like the laser and I looked at a whole bunch of them from Epilog, Boss, Universal, etc.
Re: New here and to lasers
Hello Friends,
would you like to consider G.WEIKE laser ? Fiber laser cutting machine, Metal laser cutting machine - G.Weike
Best Regards
Lucy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NewfieDan
I am thinking of starting my own cottage industry. I know I can make money with lasers, especially combined with my woodworking. I have done some research and found out a few things.
Looking for input if I am on the right track.
I would like the following:
-either50 or 60watt would be sufficient for now
-ability to engrave photos
-3D would be a nice feature too, but not critical right now
-rotary attachment
-looking for a machine with a ceramic composite tube instead of purely glass
-a table size of about 24X20.
So far after my research I am leaning towards either the Epilog Helix or a Legacy Laser X500. Either one is roughly the same price of about $12 plus the extras
Re: New here and to lasers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NewfieDan
I am thinking of starting my own cottage industry. I know I can make money with lasers, especially combined with my woodworking. I have done some research and found out a few things.
Looking for input if I am on the right track.
I would like the following:
-either50 or 60watt would be sufficient for now
-ability to engrave photos
-3D would be a nice feature too, but not critical right now
-rotary attachment
-looking for a machine with a ceramic composite tube instead of purely glass
-a table size of about 24X20.
So far after my research I am leaning towards either the Epilog Helix or a Legacy Laser X500. Either one is roughly the same price of about $12 plus the extras
If you think 60W will be sufficient, you should probably go 80W :)
$12k is a heck of a lot to drop on a maybe... if it was me (it was, once) I would go for a good-quality, good reputation Chinese unit for 1/5 of what you are paying. If business is good, upgrade as necessary. If it craps out, you can sell the laser for close what you paid.
I am in the decision stage of buying a new laser which has been pretty much paid for by working my crappy old hybrid no-name 40W Blue Box to a nub. I upgraded the controller from the POS Chinese one and it was a different machine - easy to do and <$100 well spent.
24x20 is around 510x610 - you could get a decent Chinese 6090 (900x600 or 35"x24") for under $2k, delivered with the accessories you mentioned. If business takes off, keep the 6090 set up for engraving and get a higher-powered big table unit for cutting, and still save $6k
Re: New here and to lasers
The cost of a glass CO2 laser is about 5% of the cost of a ceramic core laser ofvthe same power.
I think, starting off with zero laser business under your belt you would be better off with a glass CO2 tube - at that price you can easily afford to hold spares.
Re: New here and to lasers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Zootalaws
24x20 is around 510x610 - you could get a decent Chinese 6090 (900x600 or 35"x24") for under $2k, delivered with the accessories you mentioned. If business takes off, keep the 6090 set up for engraving and get a higher-powered big table unit for cutting, and still save $6k
You will not get a decent 6090 for under $2K.
Re: New here and to lasers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
epilotdk
You will not get a decent 6090 for under $2K.
That depends on what you consider 'decent', but yes, at $2k it will be a cheapo one.
For $3.5k, $8.5k less than the unit he was considering, you can get a very serviceable unit from a known supplier.
Re: New here and to lasers
Epilog to a Legacy Laser is no comparison , you might get a small epilog for 12k 40 watts small table you won't get 60 watts and a 12 x24 for that .
You can get a real nice Rabbit laser 60 or 80 watts for well under 10 with a 14x24 engarving area, and have great USA support and supplies . They will come set it up and teach you how to run it.60 watts is plenty for engraving and will cut up to 1/4 inch BB plywood no problem.Im my opinion Rabbit lasers are the best built Chinese lasers around. You won't get a better deal for the money.
Re: New here and to lasers
I've looked at a lot of lasers... I've had customers buy Epilog and various Chinese units and being that they are mostly printers or stamp makers, they are happy using Corel and treating it like a windows printer, so they aren't doing much in the way of boundary pushing or experimenting.
But really, after looking inside, I can't see why an Epilog costs $17K for an A3 bed machine. There just doesn't seem to be the guts to justify those prices. Sure they have nice drivers and servos and tubes, I'm sure they have great support, good manuals, spares availability, etc., but for me I will take a good machine at $3-4K with spotty or non-existent on-site support over a $12k machine with a dealer network and pay myself to do my servicing. :)
Which isn't to denigrate Epilog - they make fine machines, built with a lot of Chinese-made componentry, but packaged very well.
I think they are like the old days of computing where IBM used to charge whatever they wanted until Compaq came along and made them compete, and they made a lot of money stressing 'American made', but the reality was that the $20,000 IBM PC sitting on my desk was 5% parts cost, 95% organisation. When the NEC machines came out the incumbents spent a lot of time telling us how bad the quality and such was from Japan, but the reality was they were better, faster and cheaper and by that time we had a 'Computer Department' that could handle most things.
I see the laser industry the same - for 20 years it has been the preserve of the west, and companies like Epilog have really set the bar, but consumers are now experienced enough, there's enough shared knowledge that IBM-style pricing is done.
Re: New here and to lasers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Zootalaws
The cost of a glass CO2 laser is about 5% of the cost of a ceramic core laser ofvthe same power.
I think, starting off with zero laser business under your belt you would be better off with a glass CO2 tube - at that price you can easily afford to hold spares.
Glass lasers are good enough for cutting but not for real engraving quality and speed.
Re: New here and to lasers
Excellent points! I agree with you.
Re: New here and to lasers
I agree and disagree.Chinese lasers engrave just fine but their not as fast as Trotec's or Epilogs.If you need high speen engraving then a western machine is what you need. 3 to 5 times the cost of a good Chinese glass tube laser. If cutting and a little engraving is what your going to do a decent Chinese glass co2 laser will probably. work for you
I see the op has not been back to see what advice has been offered. I see this all to often we the laser community answer and discuss all the posters question and he never bothers to return
Re: New here and to lasers
So you don't like how the Rabbit engraves.
can you tell us why you don't like the rabbit?/
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pjblues1
Excellent points! I agree with you.
Re: New here and to lasers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bigbird48
I agree and disagree.Chinese lasers engrave just fine but their not as fast as Trotec's or Epilogs.If you need high speen engraving then a western machine is what you need. 3 to 5 times the cost of a good Chinese glass tube laser. If cutting and a little engraving is what your going to do a decent Chinese glass co2 laser will probably. work for you
I see the op has not been back to see what advice has been offered. I see this all to often we the laser community answer and discuss all the posters question and he never bothers to return
Can you explain how it is that the Trotec and Epilog do better? I would have thought it was a combination of power and motion speed that would dictate how effective a machine was and if you have the same specifications, the performance would be the same?
Re: New here and to lasers
sure if you had the same spec performance should be close to the same , but the specs aren't anywhere near the same on a glass tube Chinese co2 laser compared to a metal tube western laser. The difference's are many. Software, servos compared to steppers,the tubes,just to name a few.and thats why the western machines cost 3 to 5 times the cost of a co2 glass tube Chinese laser. The biggest difference is the engraving speed, cutting speed are close to the same. So like I said if engraving is your main goal and speed is necessary then spend the big bucks for a Trotec , epilog or a UVLS. If cutting and occasional engraving a glass tube co2 might work for you.
Re: New here and to lasers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bigbird48
sure if you had the same spec performance should be close to the same , but the specs aren't anywhere near the same...
...except where they are, with a commensurate price hike. You seem to be comparing fish and apples. If you have two machines of different specification, they will perform differently, regardless of source. If you have two machines of the same specification, they should perform close to the same, again regardless of source.
Buying a 2L four-door car from Poland and expecting it to perform the same as a Mitsubishi Lancer Evo is fraught with peril for the same reason - size and shape are similar, just a few tens of thousands of dollars in electronics, motor and drive different.
It's a broad brush to state that Chinese lasers aren't the same spec, without being aware of the totality of Chinese laser manufacturers and their specification. If they use a top-quality controller, servos and a fibre laser, the performance should be the same, no?
But... so much of a product's cost doesn't just rest on the manufacture - support and services suck up a lot of money. Trotec and Epilog aren't 5x the price because their component costs are 5x greater, they also support a huge workforce that supports the sales, that the Chinese manufacturers don't.
For me, I don't need a support organisation, so base price and specification is much more important than having 24/7 phone support and local service technicians. So, for a Trotec or Epilog to be considered, it would have to have significant advantages over a competitor.
I can fit servos and a fibre laser to reach the same specification, at a significantly reduced price to buying from those two, so, for me, the US isn't a place I would buy, for the reasons outlined above. I'm sure there are US makers making similar-spec machines to the Chinese. I would expect they perform the same.
Re: New here and to lasers
Im not comparing anything to anything your the one asking questions and Im trytin to give answers. . I wont waste my tiome anymore
Re: New here and to lasers
Further: the technology differences seem to be the biggest difference - a glass CO2 laser operates at such high voltages, changes in frequency via pulse are harder than with metal CO2 lasers. Hence why raster operation of a metal laser is better than a glass one.
Trotec and Epilog both sell entry-level lasers that use stepper motors and CO2 lasers - the difference being that they use metal, not glass, tubes.
Re: New here and to lasers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bigbird48
Im not comparing anything to anything your the one asking questions and Im trytin to give answers. . I wont waste my tiome anymore
You said: "sure if you had the same spec performance should be close to the same , but the specs aren't anywhere near the same on a glass tube Chinese co2 laser compared to a metal tube western laser." - that looks pretty close to comparing, unless it means something different to you?
Re: New here and to lasers
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bigbird48
Im not comparing anything to anything your the one asking questions and Im trytin to give answers. . I wont waste my tiome anymore
Your wasting your time with these two jokers, they know nothing, add nothing of value and just want to get in a argument. I suggest just adding him to your ignore list same as cinematic2 That way you can help the people who are on here to learn not argue. They are both on my list :devious:
