Is Mach3 compatible with Win7 64 bits or any 64 bits operating systems?

Hi,

I just bought a new CNCEST USB 6040 4-axis 1.5kW and installed Mach3 in my desktop. The computer has a fresh Win7 64 bits installation and is dedicated for the CNC router. I'm new to all this machining stuff but I cannot get the compter to control any motor movement. I'm wondering is it's my 64 bits Windows version that causes me this problem. Do some some of you were able to run Mach3 onto a Win7 64bits OS?

Thanks,
Leo

Hi,
yes it is perfectly possible to run Mach3 on 64 bit OS's, what will NOT run is Machs parallel port, that requires 32bit Windows7 or earlier.

If you have a 64bit OS then you MUST have an external motion controller. Chinese made controllers seldom work as advertised and
have poor or non existent support. I suggest either a US or European made controller and not one of the Chinese fakes either.

Craig

Hi Craig,

First thanks for chiming in.

I do have the Win7 64bit OS installed. My motion control card is USB. Now that I know that the chinese controller probably wont work I see that I have about four choices; 1.- downgrade to a 32bits version, 2.- change the motion controller, 3- Upgrade to Mach4, or 4.- Upgrade to another motion control board and a different CNC software brand.

Option 1.- (downgrade Win7 to a 32bits version): is the least expensive as it doesn't involve to spend more money in my installation. But I'm hesitant to start my learning process with Mach3 rather then a better CNC platform like Mach4. If Mach3 is good, then I would start and probably stick to it. I haven't purchased it yet and want to make the wisest decision.
Option 2.- (change for a 64 bits compatible motion controller): Is there any particular one you suggest more?
Option 3.- (Upgrade to Mach4): Upgrading to Mach4 is the most expensive option as I will require to invest into hardware (change the motion controller) and the new software. I've looked around for other motion controllers but I'm unsure of what it all involves and if it's really a good choice to invest into the Mach4 platform? I can't try the trial version of Mach4 since my Bitsensor motion card isn't Mach4 compatible.
Option 4.- (Upgrade to another motion controller and and a different software brand). Again, is it worth it to change both of these rather than to stick with Mach3.

Thanks for your help, it's much appreciated.
Leo

Hi,
if you are new to Mach then Mach4 is preferred, all development on Mach3 ceased six years ago..

There is a parallel port ($25.00 license fee applies) called Darwin, it still requires a 32 bit OS Windows 7 or earlier. The parallel port works but is short of realtime supports
like lathe threading and realtime THC.

Mach4 all but requires, and was always intended to be paired with an external motion controller. Once you have an external controller then any Windows OS
including 64 bit will work.

I use and like and recommend an Ethernet SmoothStepper by Warp9. It will work with Mach3 OR Mach4, but as I said above, Mach4 is preferred.

Amongst the choices that you should investigate are a AXXBE and UCCNC by CNCDrive OR MESA board and LinuxCNC OR Centroid Acorn.

Craig

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My motion control card is USB. Now that I know that the chinese controller probably wont work

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You should be able to get the machine moving with the card you have. It's the more advanced features that typically don't work with the chinese controllers.

Did you install the correct plugin for your card?
Which one do you have?

Hi Craig,

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Originally Posted by joeavaerage

Hi,
if you are new to Mach then Mach4 is preferred, all development on Mach3 ceased six years ago.

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OK, thanks for the suggestion. Even though Mach3 ceased its development, does it perform as expected once it's well programmed or it will always remain a source of problems? If you could you give me a few hints on why you suggest me to go with Mach4, that would help me decide?

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There is a parallel port ($25.00 license fee applies) called Darwin, it still requires a 32 bit OS Windows 7 or earlier. The parallel port works but is short of realtime supports
like lathe threading and realtime THC.

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If I understood you correctly I would need to install a parallel port connector to my computer, hook the Darwin and then to the USB port on the controller box (PRT-E1500W) so I can use Mach 4, right?

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Mach4 all but requires, and was always intended to be paired with an external motion controller. Once you have an external controller than any Windows OS
including 64 bit will work.

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I see. Does that mean I would swap my Bitsensor motion control card for an external motion controller? Up to now, I am unsure of the definition between a motion controller card (like the one inside my VFD box), a breakout board, and an external motion controller?

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I use and like and recommend an Ethernet SmoothStepper by Warp9. It will work with Mach3 OR Mach4, but as I said above, Mach4 is preferred.

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The Ethernet SmoothStepper by Warp9 is one that I am aware of working with Mach4, but if I go this way, I would like to make sure that this board is 100% compatible with my machine and it seems that I will be requiring different multipin snap plastic connectors rather than screwed connections, that puzzles me for the moment.

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Amongst the choices that you should investigate are a AXXBE and UCCNC by CNCDrive OR MESA board and LinuxCNC OR Centroid Acorn.

Craig

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Seems like there is a lot of motion controller options out there, and I am lost throughout all this presently. I'm trying to keep things as simple as possible for now to correctly set up the machine so it goes well while I'm learning. If Mach3 does very well the job then I will convert to 32 bits. If it's a bad idea with the current Chinese hardware then I will invest into Mach4 I guess while I'm at it. :)

Thanks,
Leo

Hi Gerry,

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Originally Posted by ger21

You should be able to get the machine moving with the card you have. It's the more advanced features that typically don't work with the chinese controllers.

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Which advanced features are you referring to?

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Did you install the correct plugin for your card?

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I guess so.

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Which one do you have?

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Sorry for my ignorance but which plugin are you referring to? Once the machine was assembled, I started the installation of the provided Chinese copy of Mach3. I was having problems setting up the basic parameters for the stepper motors and the spindle and I had an error message that the "RnR...DLL" was not available or something of the kind. No control of the motors from the computer, neither get the spindle to at least spin. I then decided to install and to validate if the legit trial version from Artsoft was better, well it went better to input the data. I was able to set up all correctly without any quirks but again none of the motors are running from the computer, it's as if the were no link between the computer and the VFD box. It's from there that I suspected that my 64bits version may be causing the problem.

Thanks for your precious help,
Leo

Hi,
Mach3 is certainly perfectly capable once setup and plenty of people use it but it is facing obsolescence. If you choose to buy it but a year down
the track find you want the extra performance of Mach4 then you have done your money on Mach3.

The principle advantage of Mach4 over Mach3, and indeed other Windows PC CNC solutions is flexibility of customization. This is conferred
by Lua, Mach4's structure and API. That may appeal to you...then again maybe it doesn't. There are certain features that are not available in
Mach3, or rather if they are available in Mach3 the Mach4 version is way more sophisticated, not the add-on features of Mach3.

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If I understood you correctly I would need to install a parallel port connector to my computer, hook the Darwin and then to the USB port on the controller box (PRT-E1500W) so I can use Mach 4, right?

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No, if the idea of a cheap ($25) parallel port appeals (assuming you have a 32bit Windows7 or earlier PC), then you would install a parallel port card,
if not already fitted, a regular parallel port BoB. The outputs of the BoB hook to your stepper drivers and spindle control board. I mention the
parallel port (Darwin) not because I recommend it but rather as a matter of completeness. It is a cheaper option but I suspect the restricted
realtime supports that Darwin offers would wear thin after a while.

In reality Mach4 requires an external motion control board like an ESS. The Bitsensor board has no Mach4 plugin and is just not up to the task.
The ESS, and indeed most of the other Mach4 boards require a BoB between the ESS and your wiring. The BoB, for example the C25 ($29.55)
has screw terminals that you would connect to your drivers.

https://www.cnc4pc.com/c25-smooth-st...nal-board.html

A breakout board is little more than an amplifier/buffer and a convenient place to hook wires and relays etc. It doesn't do any smart processing.

A motion control board on the other hand is a very smart piece of gear. It receives numerical data from Machs trajectory planner and
converts that data into precisely timed pulse streams. Your Bitsensor is a motion controller for instance, and it does not require and additional
breakout board, and that coupled with their price is why they are so popular, even if they don't work as well as they might.

Given that you have a Bitsensor motion controller you need not downgrade to 32 bit, it will run on 64 bit machines OK. The Bitsensor is
restricted to Mach3 but as you know Mach3 works fine. One of the things that annoys me about Bitsensor is no manufacturers backup,
they've got your money so they don't give a damn about you. I absolutely refuse to give any such company a cent if that's how they treat you.

Often Chinese motion controllers don't handle homing and/or probing very well and few, if any, have lathe threading, backlash comp or THC.

I mentioned UCCNC, LinuxCNC and Centroid Acorn not necessarily because I recommend them but for the sake of completeness. Whether I like
any of them or not is only my opinion, they are ALL good enough for you to do some serious research.
Ger21 for instance uses and very much likes UCCNC, and he has also a great deal of experience with Mach3 and suspect he did not much like
Mach4 when he tried it. Ger21 is a seriously experienced CNCer and if he likes UCCNC you really should have a close look.
Likewise there is some experienced users who make a cogent case for LinuxCNC and Centroid Acorn.

It occurs to me that you can do a lot of research on these systems on-line and all for nothing. It makes sense to research them all, its
all part of the learning curve.

Craig

Good day Craig,

Thanks for you thorough explanations. It really helps.

I know its all part of the learning curve and that is one of the fun part of it. I'm being careful not to loose myself in this jungle and put the efforts in the right places.

If Mach3 is reliable once well setup, then I don't think I really need the Mach4 flexibility of customization and some extra features for now. At this moment, my wisest move would be to get the machine started and to confirm that it is working alright with its stock hardware and Mach3. In the upcoming month I would decide to continue with Mach3 or upgrade it to 4 with the required parts. It's too bad that the Bitsensor isn't presently compatible with Mach4 because I would switch right away. Going with Mach4 with my present machine involves investing much more money and time. If I decide to upgrade, then I will seriously consider Warp9's and CNCdrive's hardware and software.

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Originally Posted by joeavaerage

Given that you have a Bitsensor motion controller you need not downgrade to 32 bit, it will run on 64 bit machines OK. The Bitsensor is
restricted to Mach3 but as you know Mach3 works fine.

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The Chinese support told me yesterday night that their machine doesn't work with64 bit OS. I'm wondering why they mentionned this. Would there be something else that could limit the machine from working on 64 bits?

If my motion controller fully supports 64 bits, then how can I confirm that the computer is well communicating with the Bitsensor board?

For the Mach3 plugin, I now understand that Ger21 was referring to the "RnRmotion.dll" file. After the Mach3 (Chinese version) installation, as indicated I proceeded to copy their files to the c:\Mach3 directory, these files included the RnRmotion.dll file in the plugin directory. What is bizarre is the I also tried the legit Mach3 trial version without any luck on having the motors move. But the installation seemed better accomplished like I mentionned in an earlier message to Gerry.

Thanks,
Leo

Hi,
if support say it won't work with 64 bit OS's then they are probably right. I personally refuse to to have anything to do with Bitsensor/RnR or
whatever they call themselves.

Quite a few of the Chinese manufacturers hav modified Mach3 to work with their boards, often times standard Mach3 will not work, or work
properly.

Craig

Hi Craig,

The person who answers my question takes her about 24 hours to get back to me, but to be honest, she answers me just about anything. She is not consistent in her answers and they are unreliable. That is one reason why I prefer asking questions here to people with experience on those machines.

I was able a few minutes ago to download a manual on Bitsensor.com and it mentions that their board is compatible with 64 OS. They mention not to install the Mach3 driver during the installation.

I will see Gerry's recommendation.

Regards,
Leo

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Would there be something else that could limit the machine from working on 64 bits?

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Might have something to do with the pirated copy of Mach3 they supply, or their plugin. It sounds like the issue is with the plugin installation
Many people use Mach3 on 64 bit operating systems, with no issues.

Did you go to Config>Config Plugins, and enable the RNR plugin? You might also need to use COnfig > Reset Sel Device.

Hi Gerry and Craig,

Again thanks for your precious help.

I'm happy, I was finally able to make the machine communicate with the controller box. While doing your suggestions under "Config/Config plugins" I noticed that the RnRmotion was enabled "checked". When I accessed "CONFIG" in this same window, a message appeared mentioning that RnRmotion.dll plugin was not found or unplugged and that I had to check the USB cable and after press reset or the E switch. It didn't work on the first trial, so I suspected that the USB cable or its port was the cause. I cannot confirm exactly which one of the two was faulty, but after trying a few times by hooking it in and out and changing USB rear port on the computer and the VFD box it suddenly acknowledged it in the lower-left Mach3 message box.

I will have to further investigate so I don't later experience hiccups in the transmission.

Are you aware of a way to see in real-time if a USB connection is communicating between two subjects?

Other thing that I noticed is that I hear some small noise coming from one of the stepper motor when it's in idle position. What could be the cause of this?

Thanks,
Leo

Another newbie here ... and I could really use some guidance from the experts here. I am interested in purchasing one of the 6040 3 axis Chinese machines and nee some help selecting the right interface.

All I have available is a Windows 10 64 bit computer. The circuit board used in these Chinese machines appear to be a combination motion controller and break out board. They seem to come in two versions DB25 parallel port and USB. They all indicate only Window 7 32 bit.

Question: If I were to purchase a UC100 - USB Motion Controller ( with MACH3 or Mach4 license ) could I plug it into the parallel port version of the Chinese control and have it work? The UC100 works with Windows 10. What is confusing to me is that it seems like I would have two motion controllers.

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Other thing that I noticed is that I hear some small noise coming from one of the stepper motor when it's in idle position. What could be the cause of this?

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Cheap drivers. It's normal.

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Originally Posted by Cricket

Another newbie here ... and I could really use some guidance from the experts here. I am interested in purchasing one of the 6040 3 axis Chinese machines and nee some help selecting the right interface.

All I have available is a Windows 10 64 bit computer. The circuit board used in these Chinese machines appear to be a combination motion controller and break out board. They seem to come in two versions DB25 parallel port and USB. They all indicate only Window 7 32 bit.

Question: If I were to purchase a UC100 - USB Motion Controller ( with MACH3 or Mach4 license ) could I plug it into the parallel port version of the Chinese control and have it work? The UC100 works with Windows 10. What is confusing to me is that it seems like I would have two motion controllers.

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You'd need a new breakout board for the UC100, and you'd remove the controller that comes with the machine.

Thank you so much for your help. It looks like this could work. A little leery of dropping a grand on a machine that I immediately modify.

Is there a better way to get one of these machines to work with Windows 10?

Hi,

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A little leery of dropping a grand on a machine that I immediately modify.

Is there a better way to get one of these machines to work with Windows 10?

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No, Chinese made controllers a really fraught with problems, the only real way to overcome the crappy Chinese electronics is to replace them.
Even if you remove the junk electronics and ditch them what you have left is all the mechanical stuff, and even all that stuff alone is still a good buy.

Mach will run only one motion controller at a time, thus you cannot run two UC100's together. If however you use a UC400 then you have a two
port controller for a total of 34 inputs and outputs. Better still a UC300 for 85 input and outputs.

Other alternatives are the Ethernet SmoothStepper with 51 IOs and the 57CNC with 57 IOs. Most of these boards either require, or benefit
from, having a breakout board, for example the C25 ($29.55):

https://www.cnc4pc.com/c25-smooth-st...nal-board.html

The C25 is a very basic breakout board, you can get rather more sophisticated boards, for instance:

https://www.cncroom.com/interface-ca...bdol94hleales0

Setting up a CNC machine for the first time is a challenge, having a decent controller and breakout board which are well supported will lessen the hurdle
whereas Chinese controllers of uncertain performance and little or more often NO backup increases the hurdle. I would guess there are thousands of
machines around the country that have been purchased but the owners has not been able to get them going and as a consequence they sit idle.

One thing to pay a grand (or more) and have a useable machine, and entirely another to pay a grand (or more) and NOT have a usable machine......
your wife will give you serious grief if that happens!

Craig

Craig,

Thank you so much for your reply. I agree ... I do not want a $1000 paper weight as that would be some very serious grief. So ,that's why I ask the expert. Let's see if I have I properly understand what you have indicated.

My goal is to obtain one of the 6040 machines (like the tan colored ones you see all over ebay) and have it work with Windows 10. They would seem a good value just for the mechanical apparatus.

It would appear these are offered USB and parallel port versions and it makes little difference which one I should get.

So, I could get a USB100 with a software license ( Mach3,4 or UCCNC) and a C11s or C11g card. Then I would take out card in the 6040 cnc electrical box and replace it with the C11. I like that the CG11 has a 0 - 10V out for the VFD. Would this work? If not where am I missing it? Trying to understand how deep the water is before I jump off the cliff.

Hi,
the C11G is a single port board, that is to say it has a maximum of 12 outputs and 5 inputs. Traditionally this was all a lot of
hobby machines had.

More commonly people have two or more ports these days to ease the shortage of inputs particularly. You could easily add a second single port board
like a C10 should you require it.

This would rely on your motion controller having two or more ports. The UC100, which you seem to be favoring, has one port only, and only one UC100
can operate at a time. I would recommend you consider a larger control board like the UC400 (34 IOs),the UC300 (85IOs), the ESS(51IOs), or the 57CNC.
All of these boards have Mach3 AND Mach4 plugins. The UC400 and UC300 can run either Mach OR UCCNC.

By the way, there are a swag of fake Chinese made UC100's on Ebay and Amazon and places like that. If you get a UC100 make sure you get it direct from CNCDrive
or their nominated distributor....you don't want a fake...i dont care how cheap it is, you don't want it!.

Many of the Chinese controller boards have one single PCB that has the motion controller/parallel port interface and stepper drivers all on one board.
If you used an external controller you would have to connect to the Chinese board, maybe by soldering wires at well chosen locations. Depending on
your familiarity with electronics that may not be easy. As it turns out the single PCB controller boards almost all use TB6600 stepper driver ICs and they
are not reliable. If I were you I would ditch the single PCB in favor of a Gecko G540.

The G540 has four stepper drivers built in and in addition functions as a breakout board for the remaining IOs including a 0-10V PWM output.
Th UC100 plugged directly into a G540 is an absolute classic hardware combination. A 26pin ribbon cable to db25 adapter would allow you to use
an Ethernet SmoothStepper or UC300 in the same way. Both the ESS and UC300 would still have additional ports which you could fit a second breakout
board should you require more IO.

https://www.geckodrive.com/g540-4-ax...per-drive.html

If you went with say a UC100 and a G540 or an ESS and G540 you have substantially replaced all the Chinese electronics and that will allow you to extract
the most from all the mechanical goodies. I think it wise to consider these two components as part of the setup as far as budget goes.

Craig