2 Attachment(s)
Gantry 3-axis milling machine Design preparation phase
Hello, I have been planning to build a Gantry 3-axis milling machine that can work with (wood, aluminum, maybe steel)
I have some experience with running a wood router, but now i'm trying to build a smaller one just as hobby
The machine that i'm trying to build will be
Over all length of linear rail (Y 1200mm, X 800mm, Z 350-400mm)
Parts i bought
- 20mm Linear rail way
- 20mm Ball Screw
- BK15 BF15
- Cheap Angular Contact Ball Bearings
- Stepper Motor Nema 34 4.5NM
- Stepper Driver DM556
- Power Supply 48v
- NVCM 6 Axis Control board
I started to design the machine on Solidworks before i buy the Steel that i will be using to build the machine, since i'm planning to build the machine out of Steel plates and connecting them using screws + welding since i don't have access to a welding stress releveling shop around me
If you look at the design i'm planing it looks like Mr-1
I will keep updating this post with the design for each phase since i didn't finish it yet, hoping i get some feed back on the design and the choices i made
Now the Questions part
- BK Balls crew support came with Deep Grove Ball Bearing, I'm planing to change it with a cheap Angular Contact one, is it gonna make it better Or because it's Cheap unMatched Angular Contact it will be even worse than the stoke Ball Bearing
- For the x Gantry it will be made of 10mm steel plates combined into a Square or Rectangle Which size is the Strongest and is it even worth going to higher size (200x200 Or 150X200 Or 150x150 Or 100x150 Or 100x100)
I will have more questions in the future, just waiting to have the parts in solidworks so i can ask based on them
Thank you in advance.
Re: Gantry 3-axis milling machine Design preparation phase
Hi Mog- If you do not stress relieve do not weld. Welding leads to unhappiness and lots of rework. Your attached images do not work. Do not buy anything more until you have completed your design otherwise you will have a cupboard full of unused parts....Use the bearings you have until they fail, they may not fail....Peter
Re: Gantry 3-axis milling machine Design preparation phase
Hi,
Quote:
- For the x Gantry it will be made of 10mm steel plates combined into a Square or Rectangle Which size is the Strongest and is it even worth going to higher size (200x200 Or 150X200 Or 150x150 Or 100x150 Or 100x100)
If you weld then you have to stress relieve, over a long length like a gantry after welding it will be as crooked as a dogs hing leg. It would need to be stress relieved then machined. If you do not have access to either
or can't afford it then do not weld.
I would suggest an RHS section, say 100mm x100mm x 9mm. Standard steel section sizes for columns in steel construction list 200mm x 200mm x 9mm, 200mm x 200mm x 12.5mm and 200mm x 200mm x 16mm.
If you can find a part length of one of these heavy walled sections....and avoid welding....they will in all probability be straight enough without machining. Some hand grinding maybe.
Craig
Re: Gantry 3-axis milling machine Design preparation phase
Quote:
Originally Posted by
peteeng
Hi Mog- If you do not stress relieve do not weld. Welding leads to unhappiness and lots of rework.
Thank you for your answer, About that, do you think if i bolt the parts first in various locations then weld them, would that stop some of the unhappiness, i will machine all the mating parts anyhow with milling machine or surface grinder
Quote:
Originally Posted by
peteeng
Your attached images do not work
It's strange, i can see it on my computer but not on my phone
here it should be visible
Front Image
https://en.industryarena.com/forum/a...1&d=1678132743
Side Image
https://en.industryarena.com/forum/a...3&d=1678132743
Quote:
Originally Posted by
peteeng
Do not buy anything more until you have completed your design otherwise you will have a cupboard full of unused parts
Yes you are right about that
Quote:
Originally Posted by
peteeng
Use the bearings you have until they fail, they may not fail
I will
Re: Gantry 3-axis milling machine Design preparation phase
Quote:
Originally Posted by
joeavaerage
Hi,
If you weld then you have to stress relieve, over a long length like a gantry after welding it will be as crooked as a dogs hing leg. It would need to be stress relieved then machined. If you do not have access to either
or can't afford it then do not weld.
Thank you for your Answer, If i bolt the parts before welding, would that stop the crooking, also i have access to surface grinders and milling machines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
joeavaerage
I would suggest an RHS section, say 100mm x100mm x 9mm. Standard steel section sizes for columns in steel construction list 200mm x 200mm x 9mm, 200mm x 200mm x 12.5mm and 200mm x 200mm x 16mm.
If you can find a part length of one of these heavy walled sections....and avoid welding....they will in all probability be straight enough without machining. Some hand grinding maybe.
Craig
Yes that is what i'm looking for mainly, but i only need 1 meter of it and most of the places i can buy from only sell it as 6 meter, i will keep looking then.
Re: Gantry 3-axis milling machine Design preparation phase
Hi Mog - If you have the capability of edge finishing then just edge bolt and dowel and it will be very very stiff and accurate. Welding with or without bolts will be an unhappy experience. There are lots of sad stories in this forum with welding. Do not listen to welders who say it will be OK, I have worked as a welder so I'm not speaking in theory here. Machines require a level of accuracy that welding destroys. The only way is to rough finish, weld and stress relieve then finish machine if you weld. I suggest since you can edge machine that you do not use hollow structural sections. 1) if you build from bolted plate you can control thicknesses and size and you get square edges, so bolts can be closer to edges which is stiffer 2) if you use SHS or RHS you have round corners, no access to insides etc etc. 3) Assembled machine parts are accurate, stiff if designed to be stiff, easy to pull down and modify, all round a very good way to go. You bolt your rails and small parts together so there is no reason the entire machine can't be bolted together. Peter
Re: Gantry 3-axis milling machine Design preparation phase
Quote:
Originally Posted by
peteeng
I suggest since you can edge machine that you do not use hollow structural sections. 1) if you build from bolted plate you can control thicknesses and size and you get square edges, so bolts can be closer to edges which is stiffer
I will take that into consideration, i will search more for a stress relive shop in the city near me if i couldn't find i will go with your approach , Thank you.
Re: Gantry 3-axis milling machine Design preparation phase
Hi Mog - Here are some alternative connections for you:
1) If you are good with oxy acetylene you can soft solder the connections - use lead solder at around 200C the metal does not change colour. I have made saddles and parts like this and they have been very good. No deformation. Use minimal number of screws so it can be set up and aligned and checked then soldered
2) stepping up in heat use hard solder (silver solder) around 600C metal will go soft red. Again very good process very little or no deformation
3) upping heat use tobin bronze or any low temp brazing material - you can flow braze or weld braze. Braze welding is like TIG welding but no metal melted
I have done all of these on machines with excellent results
4) if you have TIG then look at TIG brazing. Use silicon bronze rod and no parent metal melted. I have played with TIG brazing but not put it to the test.
If you bolt the assemblies together you can use wicking loctite after assembly and the connections will be rock solid forever and be easy to pull apart. Loctite 290
Good Luck Peter
Re: Gantry 3-axis milling machine Design preparation phase
Hi,
there was a heat treatment company about three blocks from me. The problem was that the biggest item that could fit into the oven was 700mm. That's why my mill beds are 695mm long.
At the time, about two years ago, the cost was $6NZD/kg. (approx $4USD/kg) The price of natural gas has gone up since so I imagine has the price. That company has since closed and
folded into the parent company in Auckland,1500km distant and a sea strait crossing from me, but the oven is 3m x 1.5m.
Thermal stress relief is possible but not cheap or easy, but pretty much mandatory if you weld anything.
There is a process called Vibratory Stress Relief, and there is a company only 1 km away in Christchurch here that does it. It's hard to get a definite read on how well it works reading
scholarly articles about it, but sure is a whole bunch cheaper. Read about 71cents NZD/kg!!!!.
Quote:
Yes that is what i'm looking for mainly, but i only need 1 meter of it and most of the places i can buy from only sell it as 6 meter, i will keep looking then.
Ask companies that specialize in steel construction for buildings. They will often have off-cuts, not that they charge off-cut price....oh no....but you don't have to buy a whole length, and RHS
is commonly 8m/length.
Craig
Re: Gantry 3-axis milling machine Design preparation phase
Hi,
about eleven years ago there was a major earthquake 5km directly underneath the city, and while most buildings survived many were so badly damaged they had to be knocked down.
Scary as hell I can tell you!
Not surprisingly many building owners are opting for steel construction rather than reinforced concrete that had been the norm prior to 'The Big One'. As a consequence there is a number of
quite substantial steel fabrication businesses (100 plus employees) that have grown up to satisfy the demand. There may be locally, (Christchurch, New Zealand) the steel you need.
Where are you? Would it be feasible for me to source some material and send it to you?
Craig
Re: Gantry 3-axis milling machine Design preparation phase
Hi,
well Turkey is still on the planet is it not? I live in New Zealand and am used to people saying 'its so out of the way'...it's like they can't read a map! I think I could find Turkey without
a map. Best apricots in the world I've been told and I love apricots!
Anyway as the re-build after the earthquake, very bad news by the way, I hope your family survived unscathed, but all too many have not, but Turkey will see a huge influx of steel just
as New Zealand has. Then you'll have your choice.
Quote:
I will look into that also, one thing I heard is hot rolled steel require stress relive also, even the process of creating the RHS is the same as welding so back to square one, is that true ?
That is true but the section is still hot when its formed. I have bought sections of 100 X 100 x 9 and 50 x 50 x 6 and found they are straight to within about 0.05mm over 1.5m.
With any sort of luck an RHS will be straight enough as is, or can be made so easily, and will be stable without stress relief. If you take to it with a welder afterwards it will stress
up and move over time.
Craig
3 Attachment(s)
Re: Gantry 3-axis milling machine Design preparation phase
Hi Mog - Since you may go the path of edge bolting consider plate aluminium. Easy to work with 12, 16 & 20mm are good for edge bolts and then loctite. No need to paint and Al is light and stiff. Where I live there are a few laser plate cutters and they cut up to 25mm steel and 16mm aluminium economically and accurately maybe they are near you too... add a 0.5mm or 1mm edge allowance then machine flat and its good to go. Only mahcine surfaces that need to be flat ie faying surfaces. This will remove the edge kerf from the laser. Good Luck Peter
Its a small world I've helped a guy in Cairo build his router... skype has changed things like that.
I've attached a couple of images from my current build. One shows the bolted aluminium saddle. It's the best saddle I've built, super stiff and accurate. The priors were welded and I had to have them re-machined after welding and I don't think they are as good as the al one. The Al saddle was also used on a bigger machine (Scoot-S3 see attached) and we tested that quite hard and the owner is really happy with the machine.
The "Frankie" machine is made from 16mm plywood and will cut aluminium. My prior machine was bigger and from mdf and its cuts aluminium. The plywood is a test build for a mill. The 16mm ply will become 12mm and 16mm aluminium plate. Its edge screwed and glued together.
Scoot-S3 is made from laser cut, folded & bolted 3mm steel. Its extremely stiff and works great. Again, good Making
Re: Gantry 3-axis milling machine Design preparation phase
Quote:
Originally Posted by
joeavaerage
Anyway as the re-build after the earthquake, very bad news by the way, I hope your family survived unscathed, but all too many have not, but Turkey will see a huge influx of steel just
as New Zealand has. Then you'll have your choice.
Thank you, where i live thx god i'm far from the earthquake
Quote:
Originally Posted by
joeavaerage
That is true but the section is still hot when its formed. I have bought sections of 100 X 100 x 9 and 50 x 50 x 6 and found they are straight to within about 0.05mm over 1.5m.
With any sort of luck an RHS will be straight enough as is, or can be made so easily, and will be stable without stress relief. If you take to it with a welder afterwards it will stress
up and move over time.
Anyhow i'm planing to machine the part after it's ready it be RHS or welded part, so it being straight is not a big deal for me, What i'm afraid of is after i finish machining it and installing it, the part start to change shape due to stress.
Re: Gantry 3-axis milling machine Design preparation phase
Quote:
Originally Posted by
peteeng
Hi Mog - Since you may go the path of edge bolting consider plate aluminium. Easy to work with 12, 16 & 20mm are good for edge bolts and then loctite. No need to paint and Al is light and stiff. Where I live there are a few laser plate cutters and they cut up to 25mm steel and 16mm aluminium economically and accurately maybe they are near you too... add a 0.5mm or 1mm edge allowance then machine flat and its good to go. Only mahcine surfaces that need to be flat ie faying surfaces. This will remove the edge kerf from the laser. Good Luck Peter
Its a small world I've helped a guy in Cairo build his router... skype has changed things like that.
I've attached a couple of images from my current build. One shows the bolted aluminium saddle. It's the best saddle I've built, super stiff and accurate. The priors were welded and I had to have them re-machined after welding and I don't think they are as good as the al one. The Al saddle was also used on a bigger machine (Scoot-S3 see attached) and we tested that quite hard and the owner is really happy with the machine.
The "Frankie" machine is made from 16mm plywood and will cut aluminium. My prior machine was bigger and from mdf and its cuts aluminium. The plywood is a test build for a mill. The 16mm ply will become 12mm and 16mm aluminium plate. Its edge screwed and glued together.
Scoot-S3 is made from laser cut, folded & bolted 3mm steel. Its extremely stiff and works great. Again, good Making
Thank you, You are giving me hope :) that is no matter the route i go with i will get a fair result for a hobby machine
Re: Gantry 3-axis milling machine Design preparation phase
that looks like that guys router that he pours concrete into a steel shell, langmuir. https://www.langmuirsystems.com/mr1/base
There's been concerns about vibration issues regarding the two sides, sitting on three supports, it might vibrate in between them, as the plate sitting on them is quite thin.
Re: Gantry 3-axis milling machine Design preparation phase
Hi Ard - Which machine are you talking about that looks like the MR1? Peter
Re: Gantry 3-axis milling machine Design preparation phase
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ardenum2
that looks like that guys router that he pours concrete into a steel shell, langmuir.
https://www.langmuirsystems.com/mr1/base
There's been concerns about vibration issues regarding the two sides, sitting on three supports, it might vibrate in between them, as the plate sitting on them is quite thin.
Yes you are right, i'm building my Machine to look similar to theirs and i will pour concretein the base also
The plate I'm planing to use is 30mm thick 100m width, What they are using is 25mm thick 80mm width and supported on 2 side
Mine since it's longer 1350mm I will support it on 3 side, and there is a plate on both side that will be inside the concrete that is bolted to the plate to give it extra support looks like this
https://assets.langmuirsystems.com/i...r1_assy-20.png