1 Attachment(s)
Can anyone recommend a VFD brand and a good supplier?
After my difficulties with my VFD (Here's the thread if your interested: https://www.cnczone.com/forums/spind...esnt-stop.html). I am going to buy a new VFD.
I would like to know what are some brands you have had good experience with and what to stay away from. And do you have any recommendations for a good supplier. I don't have a lot of experiance with VFD's so a good supplier is important.
What is important to me is:
Well made product that does not need tinkering (A set it and forget it).
A supplier who can sell me the correct product, (being able to size it etc.)
A supplier/company with good tech support that would be willing to walk me through every step of setting it up if needed.
Price is always a concern, but I am willing to pay more for a good product.
I will be avoiding the Huanyang brand after this.
I've attached a picture of my Spindles plate if interested.
Attachment 408902
Re: Can anyone recommend a VFD brand and a good supplier?
Do you have 3 phase power available?
Re: Can anyone recommend a VFD brand and a good supplier?
I cannot vouch for customer service but real vfd manufacturers have manuals that are way way better than the junk packaged with generic Asian import ones. Step one, ignore most of the vfds on Amazon and buy one from an actual process control place like Automation Direct
I've heard great things about the Lenze SMvector drives.
The WEG Cfw300 is a good one, same with durapulse gs3, and maybe a small step down, TECO.
You should not have to oveesize with a good vfd. Just buy the one with the same hp rating (and amp rating) as your spindle.
Re: Can anyone recommend a VFD brand and a good supplier?
The ones I have used in the past that also have good customer support:
Hitachi
WEG
Mitsubishi
also Allen-Bradly and Telelmecanique, at higher $$.
Al.
Re: Can anyone recommend a VFD brand and a good supplier?
I don't have 3 phase. As seen in the picture it is only 6.6 hp. My power to the unit can handle 60 amps conservatively.
Re: Can anyone recommend a VFD brand and a good supplier?
Looks like a 18,000rpm spindle 380v 3ph.
Al.
Re: Can anyone recommend a VFD brand and a good supplier?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TTalma
I don't have 3 phase. As seen in the picture it is only 6.6 hp. My power to the unit can handle 60 amps conservatively.
The reason I asked the question is because the motor is 380V (400V class) so this limits your options a bit. Most 400V class VFDs require 3 phase input. There are some 230V single phase in and 380V out VFDs, but most are from Asian vendors. Not sure if there are any mainstream manufacturers that supply a VFD like that.
If I needed to run that motor, I would install a rotary phase converter and a transformer to get 3 phase 400V power available. Then your VFD options increase dramatically, and in that case I would go with a Automation Direct GS3 VFD.
Re: Can anyone recommend a VFD brand and a good supplier?
I've done a little checking. I haven't made any calls, but It looks like Danfoss, Hitachi, and Delta make a VFD that I can use. I was looking for a TB Woods one, but apparently they sold their motor control division to Danfoss.
I do not know a lot about motors but from what I can gather from online discussions etc, I need a VFD that takes 240V in and can put out 380V. And since I would be using 2 phase rather than 3 phase I would need one rated for double the Kw draw (or double the hp) since the current draw on the 240V will be double, and the math supports this.
And in most instances a VFD that is 3 phase will work with single phase 240V input. But I need to verify this with the manufacturer.
But mainly since I am not sure I will definitely need to make a call before I order one. If you had to call someone to select one for you who would you call?
Re: Can anyone recommend a VFD brand and a good supplier?
Out of the selection I have only used Hitachi, and received good service when contacting them via Hitachi USA site.
Al.
Re: Can anyone recommend a VFD brand and a good supplier?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TTalma
After my difficulties with my VFD (Here's the thread if your interested:
https://www.cnczone.com/forums/spind...esnt-stop.html). I am going to buy a new VFD.
I would like to know what are some brands you have had good experience with and what to stay away from. And do you have any recommendations for a good supplier. I don't have a lot of experiance with VFD's so a good supplier is important.
What is important to me is:
Well made product that does not need tinkering (A set it and forget it).
A supplier who can sell me the correct product, (being able to size it etc.)
A supplier/company with good tech support that would be willing to walk me through every step of setting it up if needed.
Price is always a concern, but I am willing to pay more for a good product.
I will be avoiding the Huanyang brand after this.
I've attached a picture of my Spindles plate if interested.
Attachment 408902
If you had of posted your spindle spec's in your other thread, you may not of messed up the other VFD drive, going by what I can see from this Combo Spindle spec's, you had all the main Parameters set wrong, if this is the same spindle you where trying to run on the other VFD Drive
It does not matter what brand of VFD Drive you buy, very few tech support people know how to setup VFD Drives for High Speed Spindles
Re: Can anyone recommend a VFD brand and a good supplier?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TTalma
I've done a little checking. I haven't made any calls, but It looks like Danfoss, Hitachi, and Delta make a VFD that I can use. I was looking for a TB Woods one, but apparently they sold their motor control division to Danfoss.
I do not know a lot about motors but from what I can gather from online discussions etc, I need a VFD that takes 240V in and can put out 380V. And since I would be using 2 phase rather than 3 phase I would need one rated for double the Kw draw (or double the hp) since the current draw on the 240V will be double, and the math supports this.
And in most instances a VFD that is 3 phase will work with single phase 240V input. But I need to verify this with the manufacturer.
But mainly since I am not sure I will definitely need to make a call before I order one. If you had to call someone to select one for you who would you call?
Well that's not going to happen, what you put in in this case is what you get out, the only way you can do this is with a transformer 240v to 380v and then a VFD drive that is 380v
But even then this may not work very well, you really need 380v 3 phase for this Spindle
All 3phase VFD Drives can run on single phase, up to the max that you can get from your supply as single phase, 12Hp is around the limit for most Single Phase supplies
Buy a Spindle and VFD to suit your Power source which seems to be 240v single phase and 4.5Kw would be around the max Spindle you could run
Re: Can anyone recommend a VFD brand and a good supplier?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mactec54
If you had of posted your spindle spec's in your other thread, you may not of messed up the other VFD drive, going by what I can see from this Combo Spindle spec's, you had all the main Parameters set wrong, if this is the same spindle you where trying to run on the other VFD Drive
It does not matter what brand of VFD Drive you buy, very few tech support people know how to setup VFD Drives for High Speed Spindles
This is the spindle that I had on the other forum. I still haven't ordered a new one yet, If you are able to point me in the right direction concerning the settings I am willing to try them. The on I am most interested in getting working is how to make the spindle stop when I press the stop button. I currently have nothing connected to the VFD other than power and and the spindle. So I would like to be able to get that working. and would very much appreciate the help in doing that.
I am surprised by your comment that very few tech support know how to setup high speed spindles. I spoke with people from several suppliers and while I was switched to a couple of different tech because it was a high speed spindle, in every call there was someone familiar with the spindle and exactly with what I am trying to do, apparently it's very common.
Re: Can anyone recommend a VFD brand and a good supplier?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mactec54
Well that's not going to happen, what you put in in this case is what you get out, the only way you can do this is with a transformer 240v to 380v and then a VFD drive that is 380v
But even then this may not work very well, you really need 380v 3 phase for this Spindle
All 3phase VFD Drives can run on single phase, up to the max that you can get from your supply as single phase, 12Hp is around the limit for most Single Phase supplies
Buy a Spindle and VFD to suit your Power source which seems to be 240v single phase and 4.5Kw would be around the max Spindle you could run
I'm surprised by this comment as well. I was given many options of how to achieve what I wanted to do, but not a single person mentioned stepping up the the 240v to 380V with a transformer and then buying a 380V vfd. They offered me VFD's that had step up transformers built in to them to go from 220V to 380V.
Not all 3 phase VFD will work single phase. I was told that specifically some of the VFD's check for this and log a fault, you need to select one that is designed to handle single phase.
In my discussions, the techs recommended the VFD's with the step up transformer, but these are priced way out of my budget. The second best option would be to replace the VFD with a similar sized unit, for this they all recommended 230V,15 hp VFD that would accept single phase input and would put out 230V 3phase to the spindle. I would lose some of the HP of the spindle. Since this is what the other VFD that was sized and sold with the spindle, I am planning to do the same thing.
Fortunately my spindle is only 4.4Kw so it looks like I'm in the range you are suggesting.
Re: Can anyone recommend a VFD brand and a good supplier?
If you use a plain 240v VFD and derate the spindle, you would only get around 4 HP out of it, but get full torque up to around 7500 RPM. I would think a 10 HP VFD should be plenty. As far as a 240V VFD knows, it's a 4.1 HP spindle, not 6.6.
You'll need to be careful with the parameters though, some light math will be involved in determining some.
Re: Can anyone recommend a VFD brand and a good supplier?
Frequency does determine speed, but the 'base' frequency will now be around 126 Hz (200 from nameplate *240/380). Rated voltage will be 240v. Max frequency should still be 300 Hz.
I'm not 100% sure on what the power will be above 126 Hz. I've heard it should derate linearly, but I've also heard it is or can be square law. So best case 4.1 HP, worst case @ 18k 2.6 HP (I think 12k worst case would be somewhere between.)
Re: Can anyone recommend a VFD brand and a good supplier?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TTalma
I'm surprised by this comment as well. I was given many options of how to achieve what I wanted to do, but not a single person mentioned stepping up the the 240v to 380V with a transformer and then buying a 380V vfd. They offered me VFD's that had step up transformers built in to them to go from 220V to 380V.
That is possible, these VFD Drives would not be from a common manufacture, that you have been asking about, I have seen them to from China you are forgetting one thing, the Chinese VFD Drive manufactures are good at one thing selling anything someone is looking for, I know there are some that go from 120v to 240v and they work but have a low Hp rating, I have not seen anyone use a 240v to 380v VFD in the Hp range that you need and run on Single Phase, and it work how it should, now all that being said TB woods did have one but it soon disappeared as it was not successful
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TTalma
Not all 3 phase VFD will work single phase. I was told that specifically some of the VFD's check for this and log a fault, you need to select one that is designed to handle single phase.
No that is not correct, you are talking to people that just don't know, you just have to know how to wire for Single Phase power input, they all work even the VFD Drives that have sensors for Phase loss detection which is common with quality VFD Drives
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TTalma
In my discussions, the techs recommended the VFD's with the step up transformer, but these are priced way out of my budget. The second best option would be to replace the VFD with a similar sized unit, for this they all recommended 230V,15 hp VFD that would accept single phase input and would put out 230V 3phase to the spindle. I would lose some of the HP of the spindle. Since this is what the other VFD that was sized and sold with the spindle, I am planning to do the same thing.
Again you where talking to someone with no experience, they where right about having a VFD with a step up transformer, the rest is ridiculous running a 15Hp VFD on Single Phase, the supply current needed would be more than you have available
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TTalma
Fortunately my spindle is only 4.4Kw so it looks like I'm in the range you are suggesting.
Except you have a 380v spindle motor, which will perform very poorly running on 240v and most likely will fail
So if you want it to work as it should you need a step up transformer that can handle 3 times the VFD Drive max output current, and a 380v VFD drive 2Hp larger than you max spindle Hp, 380v 10Hp would be a good match this would be the closest step up from your spindle Hp and would be the normal any good tech would tell you
Re: Can anyone recommend a VFD brand and a good supplier?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
skrubol
Frequency does determine speed, but the 'base' frequency will now be around 126 Hz (200 from nameplate *240/380). Rated voltage will be 240v. Max frequency should still be 300 Hz.
I'm not 100% sure on what the power will be above 126 Hz. I've heard it should derate linearly, but I've also heard it is or can be square law. So best case 4.1 HP, worst case @ 18k 2.6 HP (I think 12k worst case would be somewhere between.)
You are not sure, so you should not post what you don't know it's only confusing for those that don't know any better
The Colombo spindle name plate tells me it has one speed either the 12,000 RPM configuration or the 18,000RPM configuration which most likely is setup for 18,000RPM 300Hz 10A and 380v I would need to know the model number to post the exact spec's, most Colombo spindles like this are only used at one speed
I'm sure you would see a lot of smoke if you tried to run it at 126Hz
Re: Can anyone recommend a VFD brand and a good supplier?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mactec54
You are not sure, so you should not post what you don't know it's only confusing for those that don't know any better
The Colombo spindle name plate tells me it has one speed either the 12,000 RPM configuration or the 18,000RPM configuration which most likely is setup for 18,000RPM 300Hz 10A and 380v I would need to know the model number to post the exact spec's, most Colombo spindles like this are only used at one speed
I'm sure you would see a lot of smoke if you tried to run it at 126Hz
You should not throw stones.
So you're saying it can only be run at 2 speeds??
Colombo spindles list their base frequency and their max frequency and the respective powers at those speeds. It's not a wye vs delta configuration.
Please teach me how 126 Hz (at the proper voltage on the Vf curve,) would smoke a high speed spindle with a max 300 Hz frequency?
Re: Can anyone recommend a VFD brand and a good supplier?
The way I see it is that you have a few choices:
1) Get a 230 Volt spindle
2) Have your current spindle rewound to operate on 230V, if that's possible
3) Install a RPC/Transformer to have a 400V, 3 phase system as I described in a previous post above
4) Have 3 phase power brought into your shop.
The least hassle option is just to buy a 230V spindle like the one you want, whatever that is. Trying to torture a 380V 3 phase spindle into operating on 230V single phase is more trouble than it's worth.
I have a 12 HP, 230V, 18000 RPM, ER32 spindle I'll let you have for $500, runs fine, but needs bearings.
