emco pc mill 50 & similar

hello all, my first post here. I'm a u.k based machinist and just picked up a few bench top machines. One is the emco pc mill 50, i'd like to start a small thread for any that wants to add information regarding these machines or similar wether good / no good, faults and remedies, programming tips even.
im not experienced in cnc programming and have been a manual toolmaker for 11 years now, this is the first step on the ladder to learning the art of cnc.

with this particular machine i have the use of two different control systems, the emco wincam cad/cam/nc software and also an emulated Ge Fanuc 0 type control which is emulated accurately via the emco Pc program 'winNc'' and controlled via keyboard input so i have the choice of both which will be handy im sure. i have a working area of 190X , 90Y and 190Z, and program controlled spindle speeds of upto 2500rpm. feedrate max of 750mm/min. i appreciate its not a multi-pallet mitsubishi with 2sec cTc !.. but its mine :) and i'm happy with the chance to get going. i'd also like to learn of other similar machines like the home built cnc's so a better gauge of capability can be had you know i might be better off outing it and getting another set-up etc.

ive noted allready a few things which are going to be a small issue to overcome. these are the toolholders which are from what i can understand not freely available in the tooling world MT30 spindle taper i think (will check). i do have 4 of them so i can tool up for small jobs etc, but at the moment they are all esx-25 type collet holders.. now im sure this is the same as ER25 so ive just ordered a set of er's' in the hope they fit. with regards to holding other tools like face mills or morse taper shanks i guess i'm stuck.

heres a picture of the machine installed in my workshop i'm tooling it up slowly to get ready for some cutting what experience have you of these?

http://www.adamhutchison.co.uk/graphics/cnc1.jpg

http://www.adamhutchison.co.uk/graphics/cnc6.jpg

Hi I have the same machine in my workshop/basement.

I think its a wonderfull machine to work with. Its not the quickest but forr me its sufficient.

I only have an ancient version of winnc so if i could have a copy of your software I'll be happy as a baby hahah


Good luck in hobbying with your emco.

Best regards

Binski

Hi

I have the same machine and i think ts great, maybe not the fastest butr its working for me.

I myself have 8 tool holders and a holder for a side rough tool.
The ER-25 collets work fine in the emco tool holders.

If you need some more holders try and search for SK-30 holders and make a couple of Ball-tips with your lathe on top of the holders. That should work.

Personally I have an ancient version of winnc so If I could get a copy of you Ill be happy as a baby.


Good luck with your emco,

I hope it will bring you as much pleasure as it has me.


Best regards

Binski

Hi Hutchison and welcome to the zone :)

I have neither of those machines so wont be much use there but will keep an eye on your thread and if you have any questions I may be able to help you with will jump in.

Good luck,
John

hello and welcome
i also have niether of these machines
as for tooling post up dims in your collets/holders and i'll see what i've got that might be suitable
mike

I have an Emco PC Mill 30 and it still works great even though it programs in DOS. I plan to rip out the control system and add a new driver so I can use MACH 3.

I picked up an Emco F1 CNC and plan to change it over to a Mach3 controller. I am trying to determine what stepper (or servo) motors to switch over to if I ditch the factory ones. I do not know their condition yet.

I can post as I make progress - perhaps there may be some overlapping interests.

I have found a few www links that have Emco manuals (main, pics, etc.) I can post those too if interested. I was looking for F1 info but there may be others.

Good luck with the project!

knigit

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oldmanandhistoy

Hi Hutchison and welcome to the zone :)

I have neither of those machines so wont be much use there but will keep an eye on your thread and if you have any questions I may be able to help you with will jump in.

Good luck,
John

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thanks for the support, i was beginning to think i was on a small island :)

mike, i have found the standard er25 collets to fit the emco 'mt30' holders, which themselves are apparently the same as sk30 but with a pull stud which im sure i can knock up on lathe, i will hopefully buy some sk30's soon if anyone has any? do they have a thread up the back end? and what new tool holding possibilties do they bring?. for now I'm limited to the ER collet sizes of which is 1-16.

I picked up a nice 0-10 with jt2 (jacobs taper) twist grip chuck and had them make me up a 16mm straight shank to jt2 adaptor for use on the mill, not a bad price all in around £44 that included the jacobs manufacture of the adaptor, its not a rohm but for the price i was happy. i also picked one up for the lathe 0-8 twist jacobs ball bearing again, and jt1 fitment so a jt1 to morse taper 1 adaptor was had off the shelf at J&L.


one thing id like to add to this mill is constant suds, at the moment it does not have any and was not manufactured with the provision!, only a spray mist type coolant option was available that isn't really any good except on cold headers in my experience, has anyone applied a system succesfully / spray mist even..how does it perform with steel/alluminium? what type of pump i.e; what pressure does it want to run, i was toying with a 12v fish tank pump & transformer power supply type set-up... :confused:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by knigit

I picked up an Emco F1 CNC and plan to change it over to a Mach3 controller. I am trying to determine what stepper (or servo) motors to switch over to if I ditch the factory ones. I do not know their condition yet.

I can post as I make progress - perhaps there may be some overlapping interests.

I have found a few www links that have Emco manuals (main, pics, etc.) I can post those too if interested. I was looking for F1 info but there may be others.

Good luck with the project!

knigit

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please go right ahead with the links and would like to hear more about that project for sure. so whats the differences to using mach3 and say the normal emco cad/cam software?.. at the moment i'm illiterate with cam systems although i've a few years use on 3d software like solidworks etc. is the mach 3d programming capable?. i've thought about licom alpha cam control etc, as a post processor is available for the 50 .. i got as far as the price!.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hutchison

please go right ahead with the links and would like to hear more about that project for sure. so whats the differences to using mach3 and say the normal emco cad/cam software?.. at the moment i'm illiterate with cam systems although i've a few years use on 3d software like solidworks etc. is the mach 3d programming capable?. i've thought about licom alpha cam control etc, as a post processor is available for the 50 .. i got as far as the price!.

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These links are simply from some Google searching - but they may help others. There are some manuals (programming and maintenance), pics, etc among the sites:

http://www.manus.biz/mem/Page_3.html
http://www.desktopcnc.com/out_of_prod/old_emco.htm
http://www.smoregrava.net/cncdownloads.htm
http://www.kb1.ca/2007/06/emco-f1-cn...on-manual.html

I am looking at the Mach3 controller conversion because I do not have the Emco controller. I am by no standard an expert (perhaps not even marginally informed!) on CNC, yet I have managed to mostly convince myself the Mach3 approach is the route I will take.

The Mach3 is the controller replacement. For generating the G code I will use another piece of software that I have yet to identify.

Motor drivers, etc are also in the plan.

I'll let you know how it goes.

good information in there for the F1.

here is a user manual for the wincam software, pretty pointless as if you have the software it will allready have this built in as the help file!, never the less:

http://www.mediafire.com/?79n9xj09cos

Wow,
I just found you guys. I have been researching for the local High School whether it is possible to upgrade their PC Mill 50 and their Emco Compact 5 CNC Lathe. Both appear to work as delivered 15 years ago. The Mill appears to be the better candidate since it is PC based. So far I have found a dedicated interface card in an old PC that appears to exchange data with the Mills controller using a serial interface. I use Mach 3 at home (on my Taig Mill) and was hoping to be able to use it at school since its user interface is very graphical as well as instructional. Unfortunately Mach does not use a serial interface.
Sorry for the rambling. I guess what I would be interested in finding is what upgrades (software/computer) folks use that is easier and more modern than what was delivered with the system 15 years ago.

thanks in advance Rik

I too am glad to discover this forum. I just acquired the PC Mill 50 but came with the wrong computer. The previous owner never used it thus not knowing that he received the computer for the PC Turn 50. It appears to be for the lathe version. I have a few questions: How do I acquire the Mill version software that will run this machine? Can I use other software to run the machine without any hardware mods and if so, which is prefered. I have a copy of MasterCam 9.1! Can I use that software directly pluged into the RS-232 of my computer and drive the machine. I am new at all this as you can tell. Sorry for all the questions. Anyone want to send me a copy of the original Emco software for the Mill 50? I appreciat all your help and look forward to getting this machine up and running.

you'll need a dongle board which fits inside the back of a windows 98 machine and outputs to rs485 cable, the computer will need to have an 8 bit ISA type slot, and if you want a dongle board..you'll have to approach emco.. theres one in the uk www.Emco.co.uk theres also one your side of the pond.. www.emcomaier-usa.com and also a private guy that deals alot in emco in the usa whom might help.. www.manus.biz.

wincam is the software your hunting, it works on windows Xp BUT.. the dongle board wont run on a modern machine.. so your resricted to a 98 mahcine for running, its no biggy, and a great machine to use if you can find a board.

can you take a picture of the board you have in the PC for the lathe? it may well be the same as the mill board

also .. emco have software downloads from their web sites, not sure if they are the full versions or just trials.. worth investigating! www.emco.at

I have talked to EMCO at some length, and WINcam was targeted at models PC Mill 55 and later and is not compatable with our 50. I have been unable to find the original EMCO software that runs in the windows 95/98 pc so i appreciated your post for sites to go check out. The schools existing computer is having hard disk problems.
If anyone is aware of the information that is exchanged between the PC (and its special ISA EMCO card) and the Mill I would appreciate it, since it does not appear to be sending step and direction info directly to the stepper motors.

vr/rik

The winnc32 software you have or the earlier pcnc program from emco is not only for the lathe but can be configurated for bothe the pcmill 50 and the pc turn 50.

If you have the winnc program on the computer you can run the winnc-config program installe with it and select a pcmill 50 or a pc turn 50.

I hope you do have the original floppy's for the software and the msd-disk (machine data disk) If you install the rs-485 card into another computer you can install and configure the software directly for the pc mill 50.

If you dont have the msd disk you can ask for the data at emco when you supply them with the serial number that can be found near the on/off switch.

I Have the same problem as you, i have only an ancient version of winnc with a lot of troubles.

I'm thinking about retrofitting my machine to mach 3.

The software that you can find at emco are full versions. the only thing you need is a licence which will cost you 2000 euro's . A lot of money, of witch i can retro fit almost 2 machines.


The step/dir signals are sent from the main controll unit trough a flat cable and are sent to the stepper driver unit.

WIth luck i can use my old steppers!!! I only need a motor regulator to controll my spindle with 0-10V and a mach3 card.

In the near future someone is coming over to me to measure on my machine whitch cable does what for whitch stepper.

Good luck with installing!

rik, i have an emco pcmill50, and it was supplied with, from emco uk, wincam, on a windows 98 machine and it runs as it should. here is the mill dongle board:

see if its the same as yours, and if it is, as binski said, all you need do is re-configure the software, or p.m i'll help there.

http://www.adamhutchison.co.uk/graphics/emcoboard1.jpg

http://www.adamhutchison.co.uk/graphics/emcoboard2.jpg

You can use BT30 toolholders for the F1 & PCmill 50 & 55 series. As mentioned above the collets are ER25 style and will also work. You can buy pullstuds on ebay from a company in Canada "dandmfg", I have purchased both the pull studs and the EMCO style holders and they are fine. They copied the EMCO holder and offer them hardened steel.
I am getting my own PCmill 50 this Thursday, cant wait!!

PC mill manuals:
Anyone out there have a source of these manuals for a PCmill 50?. I have a PC mill RS485 control board that is excess to my needs. If there is no interest here will list on ebay.
I may have a line on some manuals for the PCturn 55 lathe & I will post info here if it becomes a reality.