SINUMERIK 840 D HARD DRIVE FAILURE - PLEASE HELP
Dear forum experts,
Waking up to a horrible nightmare and finding out we weren´t dreaming. We had a crash on the SINUMERIK 840D control (1996) and have NO BACK UP.
The machine is a BOSTOMATIC 1000 5 AXIS that was RETROFITTED by a small company out of TOLLAND CT. which seems to be out of business, meaning WE ARE ALL OUT OF LUCK! :eek:
Just in case someone will know this company GORDON ELECTRONICS INC. we tried contacting them but no luck, it appears that the engineer who put that retrofit together has passed away already. R.I.P
With all that said. here I go:
Considering that I am a fairly well experienced technician, who is very familiar with PLC, Servodrive, etc programming and also familiar with CNC equipment, other brands like FANUC, MITSU, FAGOR, HAAS, etc. not much familiar with SIEMENS though.
How possible would be for me to go through the whole process of bringing this beauty back to life. ??
I assume the PLC program is still untouched and standing by, so that should be one less thing to worry about ?
Secondly, first thing to do would be to purchase a replacement HARD DRIVE to replace the original one. but that´s as far as I go...
I have been doing some research and I understand that I would also need to acquire OS and Siemens s/w and load it into HD. but then what? considering that this machine came in with a retrofif control, How possible it is to start basically from scratch and reprogram this controller?
Any lights or guidance please?
Thanks in advance.
FLX
BTW: we are located in Lima PERU, so there is no much help around here, it´s pretty much "we are on our own" type of situation, to fly someone from overseas will be way too expensive.
Re: SINUMERIK 840 D HARD DRIVE FAILURE - PLEASE HELP
...maybe your HDD files can be recovered by someone local. Are you sure its the HDD or dead CMOS battery and the MB BIOS has defaulted causing system not to boot?
https://www.werecoverdata.com/SA/Lim...yLima-Peru.htm
wish you luck
Re: SINUMERIK 840 D HARD DRIVE FAILURE - PLEASE HELP
Dear FLX,
1st question- what exactly is the nature of the issue on the machine? Is the control booting? Is the control with PCU50 and the windows is booting? or is it not booting? Is the NCU 7 segment display lighting up with a number? Is the PCU 7 segment display lighting up with a number?
Your machine might work without a backup depending on the situation
Could you please share the details of your control system? Is it with PCU50? If yes, which version?
The Siemens hard disk usually have the Windows operating system and front end software. The NCU box has the backup which is in the back panel- this may be on the board or on a PCMCIA card installed in there (I might be wrong- please verify!). If the Hard disk has crashed and the machine PLC/NCU backup is intact, you can make the system work by a clone/ghost backup from any other machine's PCU hard disk. This is assuming your retrofitted did not make any custom displays/screens for your machine. Once the PCU is up and running and communication is established with the NCU, you can take fresh backups of the PLC and NCU.
I have changed my 810D systems with PCU50 to SSDs to reduce the risks invovled.
Best regards
Jaideep
Re: SINUMERIK 840 D HARD DRIVE FAILURE - PLEASE HELP
hello machinehop5, we have sent the HDD to a company located in the US hoping to get it clonated or fixed. The company gave us back a new portable HDD with about 6000+ files (107 carpets) but weren´t able to come up with a "bootable clone", and to be honest, i don´t have a clue in how to use any of that rescued data. Here in Lima, now that we have the HDD back, we are trying with Perú Data Recovery, still hope. thanks for your reply. Regards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
machinehop5
Re: SINUMERIK 840 D HARD DRIVE FAILURE - PLEASE HELP
Dear Jaideep,
Thanks a bunch! all of this info you shared seems very interesting and gives me hope! I will now try answering your questions.
Regarding the nature of the issue, Windows OS will not boot.up and after a few seconds, a "n-system disk or disk error" is generated and that´s as far as it goes. (black screen)
The segments of the NCU were not been observed since I didn´t know about their existance until now. (I will check monday)
About the description of the components, it´s an older model but in excellent condition, I believe is a 1994 system, or close by.
PCU050 p/n = 6FC5210-0DA21-0AA0
NCU p/n = 6FC5247-0AA00-0AA0
MMC102 Software Version 2
I have created a photo album with a bunch of pictures of the control, please take a momment to take a look.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/pKBbFxtBj5ewj8hm6
I am away from the machine until monday, but I had all these pictures captured on my cellphone. and by looking a the pictures of the NCU, I think I have located something that could be a PCMCIA card. I am truly optimistic about finding an easier solutions now since I´ve read your message. Thank you once again!
Best regards,
FLX
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jaideepshinh
Dear FLX,
1st question- what exactly is the nature of the issue on the machine? Is the control booting? Is the control with PCU50 and the windows is booting? or is it not booting? Is the NCU 7 segment display lighting up with a number? Is the PCU 7 segment display lighting up with a number?
Your machine might work without a backup depending on the situation
Could you please share the details of your control system? Is it with PCU50? If yes, which version?
The Siemens hard disk usually have the Windows operating system and front end software. The NCU box has the backup which is in the back panel- this may be on the board or on a PCMCIA card installed in there (I might be wrong- please verify!). If the Hard disk has crashed and the machine PLC/NCU backup is intact, you can make the system work by a clone/ghost backup from any other machine's PCU hard disk. This is assuming your retrofitted did not make any custom displays/screens for your machine. Once the PCU is up and running and communication is established with the NCU, you can take fresh backups of the PLC and NCU.
I have changed my 810D systems with PCU50 to SSDs to reduce the risks invovled.
Best regards
Jaideep
Re: SINUMERIK 840 D HARD DRIVE FAILURE - PLEASE HELP
Dear FLX,
Thank you for sharing the detailed photos. This helps us out quite a bit. From the photos, the error you are seeing is "NON SYSTEM DISC ERROR" which is a standard computer error where the computer cannot detect the hard disk. The reason you cannot see the full error is because the external LCD resolution does not match the native output from your control. Also is your control LCD dead that you're using an external LCD? The control LCD can be replaced (the LCD module inside is a standard part- you'll need to check the part number and can order it on ebay. Usually costs about $100-$200 if I remember correctly and its DIYable if you're careful enough)
Your NCU/PLC backups should be intact in my opinion. You need to find a friend with a Siemens control of similar vintage, and get a clone of their hard disk. I will try to see if I can find you one on ebay. You would also be able to buy a hard disk in standard configuration with the system software loaded for this control from Siemens itself- they usually support these controls even now.
Do you have the part number which was on the hard disk carrier?
If there are no customized screens made by your retrofitter, and it set up in standard configuration, you would be good to use the machine there itself.
I would suggest taking good backups of the NC and PLC area once this is done.
Best regards
Jaideep
Re: SINUMERIK 840 D HARD DRIVE FAILURE - PLEASE HELP
Good morning dear Jaideep,
Yes, I apologize for not mentioning the issue we have with the LCD display, one of the operators had told me that this screen started acting up not too long after the HDD failed. He said that the screen will work once the machine warms up for a while. So that´s another item on my to-do-list for monday. so we will know for sure what´s going on with that component, also pending to find out HDD p/n.
I will keep my fingers (and toes) crossed hoping that you are right about the backups being stored somewhere in there safe! that would be awesome! Thank you so much! your help is greatly appreciated.
Best regards,
FLX
Re: SINUMERIK 840 D HARD DRIVE FAILURE - PLEASE HELP
Dear Jaideep,
You were absolutely right! There is a PCMCIA card attached into the NCU unit :cheers: I have added up seven new pictures into the same album of pictures, please click on the link and take a look at it.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/pKBbFxtBj5ewj8hm6
As we can see on the picture of the PCMCIA card, there is a part number that had been altered by handwriting. I am assuming that this was made because this machine is 5axis. Just a thought.
Also, I powered up the machine to watch the 7 segments LED status indicator on the NCU and it shows a #6 (as shown on the picture)
One thing I haven´t been able to find was the #HDD number, because the disc carrier is missing. :( so the only info that we have on the HDD is the one showed on the disc itself. (picture)
Last but not least, the control LCD will not start up, but if we play with the power cycle OFF and ON a few times, there will be this instant where the screen starts up but it will fade away almost inmiidiately. I hope is not something more complicated such a video card or motherboard problem.
Following up on your recommendations, I will focused on how to acquire a replacement HDD and in order to do that I will give Siemens a try to see if they can help us out. If you have any leads in where else to get it please do so, I will be greatly appreciated.
Once again, Thank you!
Best regards,
FLX
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jaideepshinh
Dear FLX,
Thank you for sharing the detailed photos. This helps us out quite a bit. From the photos, the error you are seeing is "NON SYSTEM DISC ERROR" which is a standard computer error where the computer cannot detect the hard disk. The reason you cannot see the full error is because the external LCD resolution does not match the native output from your control. Also is your control LCD dead that you're using an external LCD? The control LCD can be replaced (the LCD module inside is a standard part- you'll need to check the part number and can order it on ebay. Usually costs about $100-$200 if I remember correctly and its DIYable if you're careful enough)
Your NCU/PLC backups should be intact in my opinion. You need to find a friend with a Siemens control of similar vintage, and get a clone of their hard disk. I will try to see if I can find you one on ebay. You would also be able to buy a hard disk in standard configuration with the system software loaded for this control from Siemens itself- they usually support these controls even now.
Do you have the part number which was on the hard disk carrier?
If there are no customized screens made by your retrofitter, and it set up in standard configuration, you would be good to use the machine there itself.
I would suggest taking good backups of the NC and PLC area once this is done.
Best regards
Jaideep
Re: SINUMERIK 840 D HARD DRIVE FAILURE - PLEASE HELP
...email this guy maybe to see if, something compatible in a Compat flash setup HDD.... I just bought 2 to upgrade a couple of 1995 machines.they worked perfectly as replacements HDD's after using the BIOS to format them.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/31311759074...IAAOSwRute6M9H
Re: SINUMERIK 840 D HARD DRIVE FAILURE - PLEASE HELP
Thank you! we will give him a try for sure!
Regards,
FLX
Quote:
Originally Posted by
machinehop5
...email this guy maybe to see if, something compatible in a Compat flash setup HDD.... I just bought 2 to upgrade a couple of 1995 machines.they worked perfectly as replacements HDD's after using the BIOS to format them.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/31311759074...IAAOSwRute6M9H
Re: SINUMERIK 840 D HARD DRIVE FAILURE - PLEASE HELP
Hi,
LED number 6 on the NCU is excellent news- that means the PLC/NCU system is powered up and functional. The problem is only with your hard disk.
Regarding LCD- do NOT frequently restart your machine to try to get it to work. Its a simple replacement. You need to open up your PCU module to see the LCD model number, and order a replacement via ebay or some other similar website. Repeated restarts risks your 840D system as the backup there can crash on frequent restarts.
You need a hard disk with the operating system and system programs available on it. Buying a blank disk will not help unless you have the backup available from someone else. I am trying to contact my local Siemens friends to see if anyone can help with this. If we can get our hands on this, I will send you a norton ghost backup which you can then load onto a new hard disk. Try out the machine using the external LCD, and repair the internal LCD later on whenever time permits and once your parts arrive. The normal problem in the internal LCD is that the backlight or backlight driver fails. I have replaced one machine backlight with a regular LED strip temporarily instead of using an external LCD- however, I do not recommend this for you.
Replacing the LCD with a new part (these are usually sharp/toshiba LCDs) does the job.
This person has the same MMC in stock with hard disk- https://www.ebay.com/itm/122053249972 you can contact him and ask him if he can send you a clone for which you could negotiate some amount. If he's charging a lot for the backup, make an offer for the full unit which you can then keep as a spare.
For the hard disk, I suggest using the following https://www.ebay.com/itm/203101179448 . The PCU will not be able to recognise the hard disk as it is- when you clone the hard disk, make sure you select the partition sizes being same as the original. I think your original hard disk is only 170mb, which means your partitions would be 40-50mb each. Please follow the same (the software will ask you what to do with the free space- do not allocate it to the partitions as the system would not work otherwise)
Best regards
Jaideep
Re: SINUMERIK 840 D HARD DRIVE FAILURE - PLEASE HELP
Hi,
One more thing- you would need a cable to read the hard disk from your laptop/desktop. Link below..
https://www.ebay.com/itm/131523455944
This is to read the Siemens hard disk and make a new one using your computer.
best regards
Jaideep
Re: SINUMERIK 840 D HARD DRIVE FAILURE - PLEASE HELP
Dear Jaideep,
With your permission, I would like to send you a PM. thank you.
Regards,
FLX
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jaideepshinh
Hi,
LED number 6 on the NCU is excellent news- that means the PLC/NCU system is powered up and functional. The problem is only with your hard disk.
Regarding LCD- do NOT frequently restart your machine to try to get it to work. Its a simple replacement. You need to open up your PCU module to see the LCD model number, and order a replacement via ebay or some other similar website. Repeated restarts risks your 840D system as the backup there can crash on frequent restarts.
You need a hard disk with the operating system and system programs available on it. Buying a blank disk will not help unless you have the backup available from someone else. I am trying to contact my local Siemens friends to see if anyone can help with this. If we can get our hands on this, I will send you a norton ghost backup which you can then load onto a new hard disk. Try out the machine using the external LCD, and repair the internal LCD later on whenever time permits and once your parts arrive. The normal problem in the internal LCD is that the backlight or backlight driver fails. I have replaced one machine backlight with a regular LED strip temporarily instead of using an external LCD- however, I do not recommend this for you.
Replacing the LCD with a new part (these are usually sharp/toshiba LCDs) does the job.
This person has the same MMC in stock with hard disk-
https://www.ebay.com/itm/122053249972 you can contact him and ask him if he can send you a clone for which you could negotiate some amount. If he's charging a lot for the backup, make an offer for the full unit which you can then keep as a spare.
For the hard disk, I suggest using the following
https://www.ebay.com/itm/203101179448 . The PCU will not be able to recognise the hard disk as it is- when you clone the hard disk, make sure you select the partition sizes being same as the original. I think your original hard disk is only 170mb, which means your partitions would be 40-50mb each. Please follow the same (the software will ask you what to do with the free space- do not allocate it to the partitions as the system would not work otherwise)
Best regards
Jaideep
Re: SINUMERIK 840 D HARD DRIVE FAILURE - PLEASE HELP
Dear FLX,
Sure please do. Do check your message inbox as I may not be able to reply if your inbox is full. I think max 30 are allowed or so.
Best regards
Jaideep
Re: SINUMERIK 840 D HARD DRIVE FAILURE - PLEASE HELP
Hello,
We have a problem with HDD of machine Deckel Maho DMC63V with Siemens 840D (810D). I checked HDD and found bad sectors in it. One file corrupted, maybe anyone has such or at least similar to check what it is.
Target HDD drive: 840D-SYSTEM, folder: mmc2 , file: proto.txt.
Maybe someone know can it be restored from Archive file on HDD or at least share it. Not all file corupted. I extracted data and missing middle of this txt file.
