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Hi guys, this is my first post around here. I'm building a hobby cnc and i need some data about these spindles. As an example:
https://pt.aliexpress.com/item/2-2kw-spindle-kit-220v-380V-80mm-2200w-CNC-milling-spindle-motor-2-2kw-inverter-80mm/32807208836.html?
(Couldn't find the resource here in the post section to give an "dns" to the link )
Has anyone used those spindles ? Tested which RPM they start to have the lowest torque ? Which frequency ?
I haven't, I'm afraid that responses on this forum are infrequent at best so hope you get a reply but not holding my breath.
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I dont know if this is any help: HSMAdvisor allows you to download a bunch of generic machine definitions for the common water cooled spindles (although probably the air cooled spindles will be very much similar I assume).
These definitions give us some generic power curve profiles.
I am not sure if the data is based on actual observations or from the manufacturer or just calculated based on certain assumptions. But to me the curves look very crude with not more than 5 data observation points.
But it should be a good starting point, else you may need to contact the seller/manufacturer.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attach...d=369582&stc=1http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attach...d=369584&stc=1http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attach...d=369586&stc=1http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attach...d=369588&stc=1
My HSMAdvisor trial expires in about a week from now, and i just fried my air cooled 1.5kW spindle a week ago while running it at low RPM.
Hope the images provide some help.
Most of the Chinese Water Cooled spindles have a recommended range of 6000 - 24000 RPMs. You need to program your VFD to ensure it can only operate in this range. Now some users have actually run these spindles for short periods of time drilling at much lower RPMs but that is really not recommended as the windings inside the motor get really hot and can damage the insulation.
Russ
Thanks for advice Russ.
i knew i was pushing it too far running it at low rpms but something else caught my attention and by the time i could smell that magical smoke the spindle was a rest in peace.
im sure I damaged the insulation on the motor windings because now my spindle runs for a few seconds and stops with a EOCA error.
no one in this part of the world seems to do motor rewinding jobs for such small cheap motors, especially for no brand stuff such as this spindle.
im taking this up as my new project to try and resurrect the spindle.
i have to dismantle it to have a look inside first and see what can be done.
Kafie,
Honestly, just buy a new spindle. You can take these apart if you have the right tools and are very careful, however they need to be balanced since they turn at such high speeds. You will not find anyone to rewind the spindle professionally and get it back together fully balanced for what the replacement will cost. You can search the zone and a few users actually replaced defective bearings with high quality bearings but these guys had very nice machine shops. None of these even attempted to rewind a damaged spindle.
Russ
Russ,
Yes, your advice is very realistic. I do eventually plan on buying a new spindle when I get some funds to do so.
you are right about special tools needed to refurbish the spindle and probably i may never get anyone to rewind and balance it cheap enough to justify not buying a new spindle.
but let me have fun tearing apart the burned spindle. i might use the bearings etc for some other future project. hhahahaaha
cheers,
kafie1980
With regards to the power curve, I contacted a few sellers and they gave me the standard answer that they dont have such charts or data. Probably, they never bothered even testing their spindles from that aspect.
But if someone does want a real Power Curve for the spindle then it can be put on a dyno test.
I have seen small a dynamometer that the RC guys use to tests their motor performance, but I dont have access to one. Maybe one can put together a jig to measure such information on these Chinese spindles.
None of the sellers have much information of what they are selling they are just a seller, nothing more, the manufactures do have the torque charts, but do not deal with the publicQuote:
Originally Posted by kafie1980
I thought you had learned, some about these spindles, the minimum RPM .6,000 RPM for the water cooled, and with very little useful torque at 6,000 RPM at 7,000 RPM seems to be around the minimum for any useful cutting, what you posted is incorrect with them starting at 4,000 RPM, you could stop it with your hand at that speed
The air-cooled like what you had, have a much higher minimum RPM most are from 8,000 RPM to 12,000 RPM depending on the motor manufacture, even the cheap Chinese spindles are tested, I have been to most of the factories where these router spindles are manufactured
Eu não daria uma segunda olhadaQuote:
Originally Posted by imitheo
I would not give that one a second look
7.000 RPM é onde eles parecem estar em lá menor Torque utilizável
7,000 RPM is where they seem to be at there lowest useable Torque
I got the charts from HSMAdvisor and you are right, the data doesnt look right which is what I suspected in the first place. This means those generic machine profiles in HSMAdvisor are not useable or trustworthy and best we ignore them.
I actually tried to contact the manufacturer of my spindle 'Chanzhou HuaJiang Electric Co., Ltd' as they have a website: http://www.huajiang.cn/english/pro.asp
They replied back giving me the formula to calculate torque based on rpm and power etc. I asked them if they had any dyno testing done to these spindles as I am interested in actual outputs and not theoretical calculations and they said they dont have any such information.
Yes i took a look at those charts some time ago.. but it wasn't real, at 4k RPM a friend of mine said he could easily stop with his hand.
Generally those spindles have their stated peak power only just under their rated speed, maybe 23kRPM on a 24k spindle. Torque should be flat from 0 to there (with vector drive anyway.) So at 12k RPM, half power, 6k, quarter power, etc.
With a cheap VFD, who knows though.
I'm surprised to hear in reality they have that little torque at 4-6k RPM. Not sure why that would be. I've run my 60k, 300W spindle down to 10k or so and it's done ok (given that it didn't have much torque to begin with.) Of course with that spindle the problem is it won't actually run at its "rated" speed (for long anyway.. let the magic smoke out of the first one.)
Bit of an old thread. But I found this PDF
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.duxe.ru/upload/iblock/d29/d2962c368ef7605ad9c6597a65e401d2.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiQ 5JSS89fvAhW-yzgGHaeXDpMQFjAAegQIBBAC&usg=AOvVaw1DvoamBio03be1N ELFihav
Which seems to be for a version of these spindles. Seems to show constant torque out to 15,000 RPM, gradiant power from 0kw at 0 rpm up to peak power at 15,000 RPM with constant power out to 24,000 RPM.
I definitely wouldn't assume that doc applies to most generic 24k spindles. First, it shows running at 220v at 15k through 24k RPM. Most generic 24k spindles don't show getting the voltage to 220/240v until 24k. Second, is there is a bearing seal air inlet on that spindle. The generic 24k spindles I've seen definitely don't have that.Quote:
Originally Posted by bolts
There are plenty of higher-end high-speed spindles (often automatic toolchange,) that have more torque at lower RPM's (from HSD, Colombo, etc. even some Chinese knockoffs of HSD's that claim similar specs.) But your basic generic high-speed spindle for a few hundred $ probably won't.