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How is it so far?
I have finally decided to start building my first CNC machine using 80/20. I decided on the 80/20 because I was able to get most of the parts pre-cut. I really didn’t want to cut the aluminum myself because of the limited amount of tool I have. I really didn’t want to risk cutting the parts wrong. The design I finally decided on was a combination of many machines and threads I have read on here. It’s maybe what you call a hybrid of sort. Well I started ordering parts without giving it to much thought on the final outcome. There were many variables I didn’t take into consideration until the parts were on my door step. So with the parts on hand I started building what I think might work. Knowing nothing in advance about this process, I have decided to post on here in order to get as much feed back as I can from people with more experience than I to offer. I have posted pictures of my progress, hopefully not having to change too much from what I have already. I’m realistic in that I’m clueless in this process and will take into consideration altering my design according to the feedback I get. Well what I want to know is will this work? What should I do to improve? I’m doing this project slow because of the amount of money involved. I buy parts as I can and this is as far as I have gotten. Once I have paid what I bought I will move on to purchasing more parts. Please take into consideration that my final design will incorporate a rack & pinion from CNC Router Parts because I have the bearings all ready. I want to use this machine to hopefully cut my own RC Planes someday. In between building I will start learning AutoCad because as was able to get my hands on a copy. Very steep learning curve especially when you can’t find anything on RC Airplane tutorials on this topic. If you know of any please let me know also. Thank you for taking your time to read my thread.
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Well fwiw, here is my $0.02.
It looks like you are using 1530 extrusions for you outside frame and it looks like you are spanning about 6'. I think this will flex more than you would like (I know it would be more than I would like). I would have made it more robust. Here is a link to automation4less. They have some great pdf files that will easily allow you to figure the amount of bending you can expect.
structural aluminum extrusions, TSLOTS, T-Slots, 80/20, Parker, Item, IPS, slotted extrusion
As far are autocad, I'm sure there are people who swear by it. I tried it once and found it awkward and hard to learn. You couldn't give it to me. I use TurboCAD. It's easy to learn (relatively) and cheap. It will probably do all you want and more.
Good luck.
Rick
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Hey RicknBeachcrest
I was looking into figuring out how much flex my machine will and can't figure it out. The actual measurements for my machine is 60"x39" and the height is 39". Can you help me determine how much flex it might have? What would happen if it has to much flex? Is there anything I could add to it in order to make is stiffer? I'm also looking into TurboCad because theirs more tutorials for it. What TurboCad you think I should get so many types?
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Max. Deflection is in inches
° "F" or Force is in pounds
° "L" or Length is in inches
° "E" or Modulus of elasticity is in pounds per inch squared
° "I" or Moment of Inertia is in inches 4
° "W" or Weight is in pounds per inch
MAX DEFLECTION =
FL^3
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48 EI
lets say the force on each side is 200lbs
length is 60"
modulas of elacticity is 10,000,000
moment of inertia is 1.877 for Tslot's 1530 oriented with skinny side up.
This is in the attachment, courtesy of Automation4Less.com (Great company by the way, I bought all my extruded aluminum from them).
Just do the math. So I get about .048" of deflection in the middle.
Ways to reduce the deflection? Reduce the span or change the dimension of the material used.
I've been using TurboCAD deluxe v12 for years. It does everything I need and then some.
Here is v15 for just $15. Can't go to wrong at that price.
http://www.amazon.com/TurboCAD-15-De...ref=pd_cp_sw_0
I also included a photo of my machine. It is about 24" square.
My number one suggestion for anyone just starting out is to spend a couple hours each night reading this forum and do this for a couple of months. I book marked everything I felt to be relevant to what I wanted to build and then I re-read it. If I had any questions on a particular aspect of someones build, I would post it on their build log.
Good luck.
Rick
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All good points and advice. A few points I want to make though.
Using dual rack and pinion drives on the gantry, you can add more legs to support the table, so flex isn't as big of a deal.
99%+ of what gets machined on a table like yours is way more flexible than the table itself, so with a spoilboard that's been machined flat, and the stock clamped down, any flex will not show up in the finished parts, probably even in up to 1" thick aluminum.
I have a very similar table, shorter x and single y drive, 60"long 1530 rails, you can see the sag in the table, has never EVER been a problem with the finished parts because of it. If I was machining molds out of 4" thick aluminum it would be a problem, but that's way out of the scope of the rest of the machine anyways.
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Hey RicknBeachcrest
Thank you so much for taking some of your time to post valuable information for me. I think what I might do to reduce deflection is to add 2 more legs towards the middle. Hopefully that will help reduce it. I'm going to purchase TurboCad for that price you can't go wrong. But the next parts I'm going to buy will be the rack and pinion assembly. But in the mean time I'll have to learn TurboCad:eek:
PS I actually bought TurboCad v18 for $16.05 :banana:
dylwad
Thanks for reading my thread. I mostly want to cut airplanes out of balsa and other light wood so hopefully the deflection should be to much of an issue. But if could find 2 more pieces for a good price for the legs I'll get them. Thanks
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Good choice on Turbocad, I have been using it since 7.0 or so, 2003 I believe, now using 15 deluxe. It does everything I need it to do for 2D work, and is super fast once you learn the keyboard snap shortcuts. Sure is a bargain. I use Rhino3d for the more complicated 3D stuff, but if your used to designing planes on paper, turbocad will be a breeze.
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Dylwad
Well i have no experiance in anything not even designing airplanes on paper. Everything i'm doing i'm learning as i go but love every minute of it. I want to build rc plane but i don't even know how to fly. Their was this guy that was going to teach me how to fly this summer but i never was able to get in thouch with him. Oh well maybe next year. I was wondering how were you able to align the holes down the middle of the metal rail? How wide should i buy metal rails?ie how much should the metal stick out from the sides in order for the bearing to ride on them.
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Gotta love the 8020. Stiff, light, and straight... Good luck!
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The good thing about using 8020 being able to buy pre-cut pieces. I'm not to good with power tools so that's why I decided to go this route. This stuff is so easy to work with and your imagination is limited by your pockets:D
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As someone said, you can simply add a leg in the middle on each side if the concern of bending bothers you much. My machine is on a wood table, so I have no doubt there is bending. And it's on a wood floor which no doubt gives here and there a bit due to the weight. In the end, if you surface the worktop, and you have your x,y and z straight and squared, things will come out fine.
Look forward to seeing the rest of the build as it goes. BTW, if you are basing things off of mine, design your Y to use the R&P drive instead of acme screw. Much easier to clean and maintain... changing the acme nut for the Y on mine is a major job and not at all fun or easy.
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Arbo,
Thanks for your input I really appreciate it. Thank you for the heads up on the y axis I will definitely do R&P all around. I make deliveries to different companies everyday. As I'm making the delivery, I'm always on the look out for parts that I might be able to use for my build. Well I went to this metal and thread shop and noticed they had plenty of metal, so I decided to ask how much. Well for 2pcs of 1/4"x3"x5' with 5/16" holes punched right down the middle they only charged me $40. I want to paint the middle of the rails red to match the other parts. My question is do I have to do anything to the metal where the bearing will be riding on?
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If all your doing is planes check out sketchup 8 and sketchucam plug in all free :)
Google phlatboyz. I found it to be a great tool for open source freeware
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RMHCNC
Thanks for the your suggestion on sketchup 8. I bought turbocad 18, because I was able to purchase a tutorial for drawing up planes. I will try to just learn one program in order not to get confused. Hopefully turbocad will be a good program to learn. Learning two programs might just be to challenging for me.
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Well I have decided to document my progress on here about building a CNC machine. I'm making plenty of mistakes along the way and will like to keep others from making the same mistakes. The one mistake I made early on was trying to figure out what type of 8020 to get for my machine. I made and impulse buy on some 8020 on ebay thinking it was a good price. Once my packaged arrived at my door that's when I noticed why it was such a good price. Not knowing much about 8020 I bought the wrong size that being 40mm. I still have it in my basement collecting dust maybe one day I might be able to use it on something else. Second mistake was buying two pieces of flat steel thinking it was a good price. It was actually hot rolled steel with a thin film of a gray crust. I thought I could still use it by maybe sanding the crust of. I had read on other sites even on here about people doing it, but after 10 circle sandpaper on an angle grinder and 2hrs later all I was able to polish was about 6":mad:. Well to make a long story short hot rolled steel might be a better price but the amount of time needed to just get it prepared is not worth it.:nono: The only positive about the steel I bought is that I could use it as a template to drill the holes on the cold steel i have to buy next.
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yeah you definitely want cold rolled.
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Well I just ordered the cold rolled rails for the x and y axis. I have a drill press and will like to start using it. I will like to build a drill press table in order to drill the holes on the steel. Any one have any ideas on how to drill the holes on the steel without a table? They need to be straight and in the middle.
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I scribed the center, center punched the hole locations, started with a 1/8" pilot bit and opened them up to just over 5/16" so I would have some wiggle room. Wasn't too bad.
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Your table looks awesome! I am at about the same point in my build. You can see it on my site. I should have my screws in the next couple days, and my linear rails within the next two weeks! Have you figured out what size motors you will be using? One thing I am looking into for rigidity is an epoxy/granite type solution to fill the voids in my extrusion. I look forward to seeing your progress, and have bookmarked your build!
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Rusty13jr
I just received my cold rolled steel yesterday and will like to figure out a way to drill the holes. I like dylwad idea which I'm going to try on my old piece of hot rolled steel i bought. As far as the electronic I'm going with the nema 23 gecko system from cncrouterparts because it's plug and play. It's going to be a dual rack and pinion systems and from the answered i have received it should me just fine. I'm just waiting to see if theirs a sale going on soon before i buy. I'm going with the gecko system because of it's good resale value just in case one day I'll build another bigger machine.;) I will keep an eye on your machine also it's looking good. The 8020 stuff does get expensive that's why it doesn't have more support but hopefully it should be good enough. If it's not good I could always add 2 more legs.
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Yea, I am going to go with the center punch, and step drilling for my rails. FedEx says they will be here in five days. I just got three meters of 4590 profile that will become my gantry. I plan on assembling all my electronics this weekend and running some test code through my "machine" to make sure that everything works properly. I can not wait to start making chips with this thing! Good luck on yours, and don't forget to post pictures as you go along.
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Well i just opened my box to a big disappointment. I ordered cold rolled and think i got hot rolled. It looks just like the piece i bought earlier which was covered in a grey coating. To the best of my knowledge cold rolled shouldn't have that grey coating. Now I have to go through the process of emailing to see if they're going to fix their problem. I'm i wrong isn't cold rolled 1018? Can someone post a pic of a cold rolled at a very close distance? This is the image of the one I bought earlier which looks like the one I just received yesterday? Did they send me the wrong one? The receipt says 1018.
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Hey, I really hope that you did not get more hot rolled. I wasn't able to get my electronics assembled, but I hope to tonight. I wrote about my weekend and you can read it over at my site. I would post my build log here, but keeping up two versions would get tedious. I hope I can get my rails by Friday.... Apparently, they never made it to the FedEx office until today. FedEx updated my tracking info to show a friday by 8pm delivery... :(
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Well i received an email from the people i got the rails from and they said their going to send me the right one. I'm just waiting for them to send me an email on when their going to send me the cold rolled.
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I hope they decide to expedite. My bearings just cleared customs in Cali, so they should be here by Friday. I got my screws on Monday, had to have the ends machined, the company I bought them from didn't do a good job cutting the ends. I will put another post on my website tonight, after work, if you want to check out pictures.
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Just wanted to let you know, I got the rails in today! Check it out at rusty.rrusselljr.com. Any luck on your cold rolled yet?
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Well I was finally able to work on my machine this weekend. I have been working many hours and haven't been able to get to it. This was my first weekend of in a month and niece came over so it cut down the amount of time I could work on the machine. Well the company I bought the steel from made good on their promise and I finally received the right cold rolled steel. Here goes another mistake that I made on my part because of lack of knowledge. I bought 3" steel thinking that it would be a perfect size for the linear rails I had, not taking into consideration the risers. I asked this questions many times but I was never able to get a straight answer. So here goes the right answer from my experience so far. If your planning on using the gantry risers from Cncrouterparts the steel shouldn't be no more than 2.5" wide. The 2.5" steel squares up perfect because the 3" I have sticks out 1/4" on each side. With the 1/4" on each side it makes it harder to square it but not impossible. If anyone decides to build a cnc machine with the risers buy the 2.5" steel and the jig cncrouterparts has on their website, it will make your life so much easier. I have a drill press and it doesn't make it easy to center the holes on the steel. Well I have the 3" steel and I will try hard to make it work, but if it doesn't I'm getting the 2.5" steel and jig:mad:.
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Well I decided on the 2.5" cold rolled steel and the jig from cncrouterparts. I just received the parts yesterday and will hopefully work on it on the weekend. I should had bought the jig a long time ago. This thing is nice and it also comes with a drill bit.
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Well it's been awhile since I last posted an update to my build. I have been working on the machine but haven't had a chance to update. I ended up using the 2.5" CRS and used the jig I bought from cncrouterparts. I should have bought the jig and 2.5" steel from the beginning. Now I have 2 3"x60" steel useless to me sitting next to my machine. Well I drilled the x and y axis using the jig, which made it so easy compared to all the trouble i went through drilling the 3" steel. I used superclean to clean the steel thoroughly and lots of fresh water. Made sure it was really dried before applying primer and a red top coat. I used rustoleum, because of its rust protection properties. My gantry riser is red so that's why I used a red color. I had bought a nema 23 motor mount to use as a guide to square off the rails. I started at the ends and worked myself to the middle. Just make sure you have a couple of clamps, they really do come in handy. Adjusting the middle was a little trickier, but a c- clamp is really needed, because the metal might have a bulge, which you need to straighten using a couple of clamps and lots of force. I took lots of pictures but my computer crashed with all the pics. I have my computer working again but this time I’ll be saving all my work to a different partition. The pics I do have from after they were primered and painted red. The are already installed also. I will install linear carriages, gantry risers and gantry next.
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Installing the linear carriages was pretty easy. Cncrouterparts has a section were they explain how to install them. The gantry risers came with all the hardware needed to install them. Being that my frame is pretty squared I used 2 angle brackets to use as a reference point. I double checked the measurements and they are even on both sides. I place both linear carriages against the angle and clamped them there. I placed the gantry risers on top of the carriages making sure they are evenly placed on each carriage. The risers need to be as even as possible to each other in order for the gantry to be straight. This is where the 2 angle brackets I installed on the frame come more into play. Being that i don't have a set of bumpers yet they will have to do.
I continued by installing the gantry on the risers. If anyone decides to use the risers which I recommend make sure to get the ones for your specific size of extrusion. There is only 2 sizes 3030 and 3060, because you don't want to make the mistake of ordering the wrong one and having to return it for an exchange. Ahren at cncrouterparts is a great person to deal with and he will gladly exchange it for the right size, but you’re out shipping cost for the round trip and it's not cheap. Installing the gantry was a little hard because I didn't have anyone to help me hold it in place while I tighten one side with the supplied bolts. Make sure both sides are pretty tight and then check the alignment by rolling the gantry up to the bumpers but in my case the angle brackets.
If for some reason it's not even do not panic, according to the CRP website use a piece of aluminum shim on the opposite side of the gantry like in the picture. I had a piece of thin aluminum I had laying around which I used as a shim, plus a shim made of soda can to bring it even closer. Well I ordered all the parts needed to build the z-axis assembly. Will start working on z-axis next which should be fun. It’s taking long but slowly and surely I’ll get there.:banana:
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Hiya Jerseydog, nice build. I'm a total CNC newbie, but your design looks neat. I do have one question for you though, since I'm building my own rig with 80/20. Why did you not use 80/20's linear motion rails? One of my favorite things about 80/20 is how almost every rail can be used with a nylon slider adapter. My design is a hot wire foam cutter with 1/2" 10 ACME rod and 80/20 slider rail, so I wanted to know if there was any particular reason you aren't using 80/20's sliders.
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Stephen_G
I’m also a newbie like you. I started building my CNC machine after reading countless threads here on cnczone. I really didn’t know what I was doing but did know what I wanted as a final outcome. This website is a great resource but it’s time consuming getting the actual information you really want or need. That’s why I have started this thread to help others fight through the clutter. Sometimes it’s hard to get questions answered in a timely manner if at all. I have made many mistakes which have cost me money but hopefully I could help others not make the same mistakes. Well as for the reason I didn’t choose a linear rail from 80/20 is because of the length of my machine. The overall length of my machine will be 60”x39” which will be hard to incorporate an acme screw because of the backlash and whip that it will create. For more information read here plus using cncrouterparts linear bearing was easier to incorporate into my design which I finally settle on. So in short anything under 4’ feet using an 80/20 linear will be logical but anything over R&P will be better. Maintenance in the long run will be cheaper with CRP part than with 80/20 if you have to replace any parts because of wear and tear. The 80/20 parts are pretty price. If you have any question please feel free and ask will try to answer ASAP. You should also start a thread on your build. I will definitely follow just to see how a machine using a hotwire will turn out. Good luck on your build and hope to hear from you soon.
Jerseydog,
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Re: How is it so far?
Well since there’s not much interest in my build the next post will be of the finished machine. I have been working on and have everything needed to finish, minus the spindle. Once I have enough money I’m going with a water cooled spindle. It’s been a learning curve but its well worth it. I can’t wait to finish this machine. It’s been a long road but it’s almost the end.:banana: If anyone runs into this thread and needs some advice or help just ask. If can help I will if not I’ll let you know I have no idea.
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Re: How is it so far?
I just now found your post, nice looking so far, keep posting... Btw, in case you haven't seen it yet, cncrouterparts has a subforum.
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Re: How is it so far?
Buck thanks for the interest. It has taken me a long time to get where i am but it's been a great learning experience. Once i make a little more progress i'll post more pics. Thanks about the cncrouterparts subforum, i didn't know.
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Re: How is it so far?
Well I have finally finished the machine. All that is needed now is the spindle which I'm still debating on. I'm leaning more for water cooled because of the lower noise. I'm not going to order from china because it's pretty hard to get any warranty and service done to it. I think an American company will give me better technical service than any overseas company. Here are the final pictures. I can't wait to start using it but at the moment I'm on workers comp because I got hurt at work. I'm getting shoulder surgery next week so I'll be out for about 3 month.:wave: So I'll be saving for the spindle and learning mach3 and CAD.
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Re: How is it so far?
Suggest you try CAMBAM for an all-round CAM program for 2D, 2.5D and 3D. Bit of a steep learning curve, but the forum is top notch. One contributor took the CAMBAM help files and translated them into a PDF. Suggest you print the PDF in color as much of the info to be gleaned comes easily from the colored diagrams.
As for MACH3. Though is a lot of pages [350..I think], print out the whole MACH3 manual. [Do it on a laser jet printer, not on an ink-jet printer; laser is faster and better quality, plus less expensive!] I found it is easier to really learn MACH3 when I could write notes in the margins as I read; plus using the usual amount of sticky notes.
Oh, buy a package of paper [ream...500 sheets] that is already punched for a 3-ring binder [they have it at Staples]. Save you lots of grief in both having these two documents always organized...and not having to punch holes with a 3-hole punch!
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Re: How is it so far?
Zool
Thanks for all the good advice. Being that you mentioned staples I'll have them print the mach3 pdf file, it'll be cheaper for me being that don't have a laser. I'll definitely look into cambam. I have plenty of time to learn. I love this site lots of good information.
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Re: How is it so far?
@zool; Your advice is awesome, and I am working kinks out of my machine right now too, so it's useful in the very near future. Thanks much!! @Jerseydog; Your machine looks fantastic! I am glad things have finally worked out for you. I am really keen to see what you make on it. Also, hope your injury gets better really quickly and you can get lots of learning on the machine in while you convalesce.
Rusty
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Re: How is it so far?
Hey rusty13jr how's everything? How is your build going? I have been going over to your site but haven't seen any updates, unless you have updated lately. Thanks for the kind words. Hopefully I'll recover fast because I hate to be home for so long. The advice zool gave was great and I'll be getting the cambam+mach3 bundle once I'm ready. Take care and have a great day. God bless America.