Rabbit Laser vs Boss Laser LS 2436, looking to buy, need advice

Hello All,
New to the forum but have been reading for a few years now. I have a few questions.. I have 15,000 to spend and will be cutting acrylic, wood, leather, felt. I will never need to cut metals. I I have narrowed my search down to A Rabbit Laser with 80 watt tube or a Boss Laser 2436 with 150 watt tube. Here is a snippet from The Rabbit laser I am looking at, this machine is approximately 24x36.
I am looking for reliability as I do not want to spend time repairing things. I am handy and have built CNC machines and 3D printers so I would be fine with servicing the units myself (if needed)

Price RL-80-9060(with CW-5000 chiller): $9450 plus shipping and handling services.
The higher power of 80 watts can be needed for some applications while the space savings or rigidity of the smaller frame is also needed. *This 80 watt laser tube is the ReCI laser tube and has rated life of 8000 hours. The rated power output is 93 Watts max / 80 watts nominal. We have tested the laser output power with Coherent Power meter and consistantly find that it does have the proper output power.

The Boss laser comes to about 13,497 With 1,800 3 year warranty) this price is with the 100 watt tube..I have read that I probably wouldn't need a 150 watt tube for most things.

It seems like the Rabbit Laser is the better deal but I am hoping that someone could offer some advice on this.

I have also been entertaining the possibility of a used Universal or Epilog but they still seem to be out of my price range.

Hi Jram,

Get GCC-X252RX-$8K (25"x18", 80W) or GCCX380RX-$10K (40”x29”, 100W). They are incompatibly better than the Chinese machines that Rabbit and Boss sell. GCC have several reps in US and offer excellent support.

I have only hearsay about Boss laser [altho they seem a professional firm], but I visited Ray at Rabbit in Ohio this winter and was very impressed with his operation and stock... not to mention Ray himself. So I would go Rabbit if I were to do it again, I would get the Ruida controller tho- he now offers that as well as Leetro- and I have them both. Gene

Hi Jram,
How thick of acrylic and wood you will cut?
Usually, 100 watt laser tube can cut about 3/4" acrylic, 1/2" plywood.

According to my experience, the lifetime of laser tube is about 2500~4000 hours..
If that tube is about 8000 hours, and working time is about 8 hours/day, the tube can last almost 3 year..
I think you need to change the tube 1 or 2 year later.

Hello Nolan,
I think we would rarely cut 3/4 inch acrylic but I could see us cutting 1/2 inch plywood quite a bit. I think we would use it a bit less than 8 hours per day. It will be in a university setting in which students won't be using it every day. I did not see prices on your site which makes it very difficult to compare prices.

Thanks for the advice guys, I have really heard a lot of good things about Rabbit Laser so I am really leaning towards buying a few machines from them at this point.

Jram, i've had a Boss LS-2436 100W for over a year now. It's reliable, cuts are clean. Doesn't engrave as good as our Universal, but cuts better. Supports been good.
Back when I did a due diligence I didn't think the Rabbit machines (or Full Spectrum) were in the same league.

The Boss machines were designed in house and had a better engineered build and components. They were on their 4th generation design.
Most imported X/Y gantry rails are simple square tubing. Boss' are custom extruded w/ bends and its much stiffer. see img.
You get an inline beam combiner instead of a red dot pointer. 4 pass material pass thrus instead of 2. And I can upgrade to 150w power.
Last I checked Rabbit only offers 80w.

But, big thing was Boss' warranty. They cover the laser tube for 1 YEAR not just 3 months.

I think Rabbit has a good machine but not up to Boss' caliber. Like someone said above if you go with Rabbit dont opt for their Leetro control card.

Attachment 354144

Thanks for the advice Ben M2. How do you feel about the Thunderlaser machines? I've seen lots of great reviews on them and I've been in contact with Nolan who has been very responsive so far. I thought I was sold on Rabbit laser but I really like the prices on the Thunderlaser Mars 35.

Remember that higher power tubes are not very good for engraving. 80 watts seems to be the maximum people recommend if you plan on doing etching and engraving.

Don't forget that Rabbit requires you pay for a person to travel out and install their machine. Just keep this in mind when pricing things.

As far as how it their machine performs probably best to get feedback from a Thunderlaser owner. Thunder markets here so you should get some feedback.
I disagree with their claim that 100w will cut thru 3/4" acrylic... And as far as the tube life Boss 100w is rated at 12,000hrs.

What I would keep in mind are the risks, costs, and lead time associated with importing direct from China. If Customs or FDA finds something wrong at the border it could get stuck
or sent back and usually the importer is held accountable.

Overseas technical support and replacing parts under warranty could also be a challenge. You may want to get details on their warranty is (if any) and who pays for what.
If this will be used on a daily basis then getting timely support / parts could be problematic. Given that students will be using it I would consider timely support a priority. Keep in mind your
cost goes beyond your initial purchase.

Boss has reviews as well. If price is a concern they might be able to work with you especially if its for school. Good luck. ;)
https://www.trustpilot.com/review/bosslaser.com

Hi Ben,
It's very strange, your tube life is rated at 12,000hrs, but it can't cut thru 3"4 acrylic?
For example, if working time is 8hrs/day, your tube can be used for about 4 years!
Are you serious? Some suppliers will say that it is 12,000hrs, but as they are suppliers,
they do advertisement. It's easy to understand what they say.
I really don't believe a tube life is rate at 12,000hrs.:cool:

And you don't know much about our company, we send a container to Los Angeles directly,
our customers don't have any paperwork, don't have any hassle on import and customs..

Of course, when you purchase a product from other country, it means they don't have local
tech support, that's true, everyone know that.
However, the local company will always come and help you to solve the issues? They will
charge you extra travel fee if you need on-site assist. We also can do it if our customers pay.
We have a distributor in USA, do you know that?..
And from our website, you can see many troubleshooting there, many customers will solve
small issues by themselves.

And the students will use the laser, usually, we recommend Class 1 laser for university and
educational institutions. It's safer.
Boss laser just import the laser from ShanDong City, all we know that the machines from
ShanDong is very cheap(they sell more,but they also don't care the quality, I think you should
learn more about Chinese history).
For example, if Boss laser sell you a laser, it is USD 9000, you import it from China, it is about
USD 2000~4000.

Yes, search "bosslaser" or "thunderlaser" on CNCZone, we can see the comments from other users.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nolan Yang

Hi Ben,
It's very strange, your tube life is rated at 12,000hrs, but it can't cut thru 3"4 acrylic?
For example, if working time is 8hrs/day, your tube can be used for about 4 years!
Are you serious? Some suppliers will say that it is 12,000hrs, but as they are suppliers,
they do advertisement. It's easy to understand what they say.
I really don't believe a tube life is rate at 12,000hrs.:cool:

Boss laser just import the laser from ShanDong City, all we know that the machines from
ShanDong is very cheap(they sell more,but they also don't care the quality, I think you should
learn more about Chinese history).
For example, if Boss laser sell you a laser, it is USD 9000, you import it from China, it is about
USD 2000~4000.

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For me it has always been a mystery why would someone in his right mind pay $9-11K for a Chinese machine that costs $2-3K. It's well known Boss and Rabbit re-sell low-cost Chinese machines. There is no mystery in that. Charging markup fees to cover for import, stock, support, service, etc. is understandable. 30-50% markup should cover for all this and allow for a healthy profit. Paying more than that to a "very friendly and professional" local re-seller is a strange decision.

//but as they are suppliers, they do advertisement. It's easy to understand what they say.

I don't know how is in China but where I live people distinguish marketing from lying and stay away from dishonest businesses.

>>Some suppliers will say that it is 12,000hrs, but as they are suppliers,
they do advertisement. It's easy to understand what they say.
I really don't believe a tube life is rate at 12,000hrs.<<

Most every laser tube warranty starts from the manufacturing date and runs constantly, not based on hours used. 12000 divided by 24 hours is 500 days or 1.36 years. More than likely, the warranty is on a sliding scale too. In other words, they do a full replacement when the tube is very new (e.g. maybe up to three months) and then would issue a smaller and smaller percentage partial credit toward buying a replacement as the tube continues to age. Don't forget that shipping costs for a replacement are usually the laser machine owner's responsibility.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Storen

For me it has always been a mystery why would someone in his right mind pay $9-11K for a Chinese machine that costs $2-3K.. Charging markup fees to cover for import, stock, support, service, etc. is understandable. 30-50% markup should cover for all this and allow for a healthy profit. Paying more than that to a "very friendly and professional" local re-seller is a strange decision.

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This kind of hot air being blown into the atmosphere usually touted by non-business owners. In my shop if i charge too much for service or equipment I lose customers. Nobody was wanting to rent a building I marketed recently so I had to lower the rent. In an open and competitive market companies will know they're charging too much when nobody wants to buy what they offer. The Made in China iPhone that cost you $750 cost Apple around $200. A 350% markup. If you find that stranger or even offensive - don't buy it. In your example If you want to charge $3,900 for your own machine that cost $3,000, then start your own business and do it yourself. Just don't tell me or any other business owner that's 'understandable' for them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vrc321

>>Some suppliers will say that it is 12,000hrs, but as they are suppliers,
they do advertisement. It's easy to understand what they say.
I really don't believe a tube life is rate at 12,000hrs.<<

Most every laser tube warranty starts from the manufacturing date and runs constantly, not based on hours used. 12000 divided by 24 hours is 500 days or 1.36 years. More than likely, the warranty is on a sliding scale too. In other words, they do a full replacement when the tube is very new (e.g. maybe up to three months) and then would issue a smaller and smaller percentage partial credit toward buying a replacement as the tube continues to age. Don't forget that shipping costs for a replacement are usually the laser machine owner's responsibility.

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Um, so I can understand it well, warranty starts from the manufacturing. Thank you for explaining.
But I think the warranty for every company is a little different, someone provide 3, 6 or 12 months, someone cover the shipping cost during warranty.
The warranty for our customers is 6 months for consumable and free shipping cost during warranty.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BLshop

This kind of hot air being blown into the atmosphere usually touted by non-business owners. In my shop if i charge too much for service or equipment I lose customers. Nobody was wanting to rent a building I marketed recently so I had to lower the rent. In an open and competitive market companies will know they're charging too much when nobody wants to buy what they offer. The Made in China iPhone that cost you $750 cost Apple around $200. A 350% markup. If you find that stranger or even offensive - don't buy it. In your example If you want to charge $3,900 for your own machine that cost $3,000, then start your own business and do it yourself. Just don't tell me or any other business owner that's 'understandable' for them.

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Yes, I agree. And every company has its strategy. Someone just want to extend business with low cost.. Someone want to make difference with others, they will make a good product and good services.
You know Universal, Trotec are very expensive. There are many people need laser cutters, but not all people are their customers..only that people who can afford to buy it..

Hi Storen, are you a rep for GCC. What makes them better than the Boss and Rabbit lasers? Right now I'm torn between whether or not I need a machine with a Reci tube or not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BLshop

This kind of hot air being blown into the atmosphere usually touted by non-business owners. In my shop if i charge too much for service or equipment I lose customers. Nobody was wanting to rent a building I marketed recently so I had to lower the rent. In an open and competitive market companies will know they're charging too much when nobody wants to buy what they offer. The Made in China iPhone that cost you $750 cost Apple around $200. A 350% markup. If you find that stranger or even offensive - don't buy it. In your example If you want to charge $3,900 for your own machine that cost $3,000, then start your own business and do it yourself. Just don't tell me or any other business owner that's 'understandable' for them.

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BLshop,

You consider yourself a professional (I guess that is what you mean by “business owner”) and accuse me of not being such. At the same time the examples you give are naive at best. I am not going to comment on your renting example, but you should be able to distinguish a manufacturer from re-seller. Come on, these are basic things…..

What manufacturers such Apple, Trotec, ULS, etc. do is they invest huge amount of money and time in research, design, development, testing, and production control. The actual production (parts, assembly and logistics) cost is only a fraction of their investment. There is a huge difference between the criteria and regulations of the Asian companied designing equipment for their local markets and these of the western brands who would use Chinese production facilities for their own designs/products and under their strict quality control. In my line of business I had to travel frequently to China and visited many factories (not related to lasers). The conditions and the quality of the deliverable of the locally managed factories and those managed by the demanding western brands are simply incomparable.

What re-seller companies like Rabbit and Boss (and many others like them) do is, they would contact a Chinese laser-assembly factory and request OEM custom configurations with their own colors and logo painted. Exactly the way YOU could do that if you contact the factory over Alibaba. 99% of the Chinese laser-assembly factories would offer you a long list with available of-the-shelf, third-party components, large selection of colors and the opportunity to add your own logo. You can request that even for a single machine! All they do is importing the machines from China and hoping to re-sell them to people like you with a 300-400% markup… Yes, they offer support that is more convenient than contacting the original manufacturer (that is not so hard by the way) and you can speak with them in proper English. Does that justify the insane markup is for everyone to decide for themselves. You have to keep in mind that these machines are entirely made in China and no better in any way than those you could buy yourself directly from the factory.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jram

Hi Storen, are you a rep for GCC. What makes them better than the Boss and Rabbit lasers? Right now I'm torn between whether or not I need a machine with a Reci tube or not.

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Ha ha, no I have nothing to do with GCC. In fact I overlooked this brand for very long. Not long ago I had to research the options for a couple of machines for my business. I wanted to explore all the opportunities and educate myself as much as I can before spending thousands. I was surprised to find there are so many options. There is no “best” brand or “best” machine. The GCC models I recommended are not for everyone but I think they may be the right machines for your criteria and price range. Definitely better than the cheap machines Boss and Rabbit offer for the same price (because of the insane re-seller markup). I can go in the details and compare the configurations component by component but this would require a lot of writing :) Anyway I think it would be best if you learn about the different technologies used in the different models and do the comparison yourself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Storen

BLshop,

,,.you should be able to distinguish a manufacturer from re-seller.

...What re-seller companies like Rabbit and Boss (and many others like them) do is, they would contact a Chinese laser-assembly factory and request OEM custom configurations with their own colors and logo painted.... You have to keep in mind that these machines are entirely made in China and no better in any way than those you could buy yourself directly from the factory.

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Point here is not manufacturer / re-seller and who decided to invest much or little. Point is that in a free market business owners can adjust their price by listening to their market instead of your recommended 30% markup.


You make these broadly stroked claims about Rabbit/Boss that I doubt you have any first hand knowledge of their actual build process and relationship with their suppliers. I have actually been to China (visit cnc suppliers) and true their working standards dont compare to Western companies. But, understand companies do over come that. Its not uncommon for contracts to be enforced beforehand ensuring what's built adheres to their own innovative design specs. Western companies do this too. Buy enough product at an agreed price and they will build a lot more than their custom config. I think the key is the supplier needs to be held accountable to very specific, clear details with componentry and build quality. Given some of the long standing customer feedback with Ray's Rabbit machines and Boss (in this thread and elsewhere) there's evidence to support they're simply not the stereotypical reseller you presume.

To the contrary, you can't find a lot of user feedback about GCC on this forum or thread. You being the main contributor in the Zone it seems. Not much of anything on Google / FB either?

@Jram. Given your situation I would suggest you find out ongoing the support behind the machine. Given all the different hands that will run it you probably benefit from timely tech support and replacement parts.