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Re: Emcoturn 120 retrofit
so far bought a spindle motor and the axis stepper drivers. Its not inverter duty but Im going to try it, since its larger HP my hope is it will not have temp issues. Have the VFD identified but its common so no hurry. Im going to Ebay the Emco drivers to raise money for the retrofit, I also have the transformer to sell. Im modelling the control to fit in a commercial wall cabinet, should have pics soon of the 3D models.
Attachment 314600Attachment 314602Attachment 314604
Re: Emcoturn 120 retrofit
motor was delivered today. I have a pretty good handle on the rest of the control except for the turret. I put in a request for info from Barrowdynamics for the emco turret PCBA he has created but have not heard back. if that doesnt pan out I think I will try to work it out with an arduino. Im impressed with the cnc4pc offerings and will likely move from the simple parallel breakout to their more complete board with a watchdog circuit and relays for 3 devices.
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Re: Emcoturn 120 retrofit
proposed control in 24x24 metal wall cabinet
Attachment 314854
Re: Emcoturn 120 retrofit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CincyTJ
so far bought a spindle motor and the axis stepper drivers. Its not inverter duty but Im going to try it, since its larger HP my hope is it will not have temp issues. Have the VFD identified but its common so no hurry. Im going to Ebay the Emco drivers to raise money for the retrofit, I also have the transformer to sell. Im modelling the control to fit in a commercial wall cabinet, should have pics soon of the 3D models.
Attachment 314600Attachment 314602Attachment 314604
You don't need to change the Pulley with this motor, you will need the 5hp for your machining, this motor will do the 6,000 Rpm you need by just using your VFD programing
Re: Emcoturn 120 retrofit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CincyTJ
motor was delivered today. I have a pretty good handle on the rest of the control except for the turret. I put in a request for info from
Barrowdynamics for the emco turret PCBA he has created but have not heard back. if that doesnt pan out I think I will try to work it out with an arduino. Im impressed with the cnc4pc offerings and will likely move from the simple parallel breakout to their more complete board with a watchdog circuit and relays for 3 devices.
I tried to contact Barrowdynamics also with no reply back, post it they get back to you
Re: Emcoturn 120 retrofit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mactec54
You don't need to change the Pulley with this motor, you will need the 5hp for your machining, this motor will do the 6,000 Rpm you need by just using your VFD programing
thats great thanx, I wasnt sure if I could overdrive it 100% without heat issues. Likely I wouldnt be using the 6000RPM for 99% of the stuff I want to do anyway, but I do have some small aluminum parts and would like the capability. Do you think the continuous duty ather than inverter duty will have an issue? Finding a metric 100 frame and 3-5hp and inverter duty proved frustrating at best. I imagine in Europe it would have been much easier but the pickings are slim in US.
Re: Emcoturn 120 retrofit
Im conceptualizing a magnetic pickup to positively identify the tool position at start up and during use rather than finding position 1 then resetting. Should be a simpler method but it may preclude using the barrow board and mach3 code anyway.
Re: Emcoturn 120 retrofit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CincyTJ
thats great thanx, I wasnt sure if I could overdrive it 100% without heat issues. Likely I wouldnt be using the 6000RPM for 99% of the stuff I want to do anyway, but I do have some small aluminum parts and would like the capability. Do you think the continuous duty ather than inverter duty will have an issue? Finding a metric 100 frame and 3-5hp and inverter duty proved frustrating at best. I imagine in Europe it would have been much easier but the pickings are slim in US.
Baldor Washdown motors are rated to 6,000 in there spec's, I have run them at 8,000 if you get one get it with the Rotor Grounding Brush already mounted, you will have a much better Bearing life, this is something to add to your VFD driven motor, or any for that matter
Re: Emcoturn 120 retrofit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CincyTJ
Im conceptualizing a magnetic pickup to positively identify the tool position at start up and during use rather than finding position 1 then resetting. Should be a simpler method but it may preclude using the barrow board and mach3 code anyway.
I guess you know the the turret only rotates CCW to find a tool, once it has a tool it will rotate forward CW a small amount to lock
Re: Emcoturn 120 retrofit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mactec54
I guess you know the the turret only rotates CCW to find a tool, once it has a tool it will rotate forward CW a small amount to lock
my thought is this, if I use 2 bipolar hall sensors and a set of magnets at every tool slot, the exact tool location is always known. Im not sure if Mach3 can read +5V, 0V, -5V, im still investigating that, but if it does I can use 2 inputs in the Mach3 to show turret position. Then drive the dc motor using the z axis and encoder input to rotate to the correct position, advance slightly then back in with a current sensor to stop and switch it to a hold current. I think with this set up I wont need the turret board. If Mach3 cant read -5V, then I can use an intermediate board to read the hall output and then I would need 3 pins which would be +5vdc or 0 on the mach to tell it position. But I think this will work well and be simpler. Im not a mach3 programmer by any means if someone can help with that. I will have to get the tool changer apart to see where to put the magnets but I think this will work pretty well, I know it already has optical sensor in the turret so there should be plenty of room.
Re: Emcoturn 120 retrofit
I already have the motor, is there something off the shelf I can add or do I need to design a custom shaft ground? I saw this in another Emco120 retrofit build and didnt know what it was.
Re: Emcoturn 120 retrofit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CincyTJ
I already have the motor, is there something off the shelf I can add or do I need to design a custom shaft ground? I saw this in another Emco120 retrofit build and didnt know what it was.
It's not an Emco thing, it is what should be done for any VFD driven AC motor, yes Baldor have them fitted to some of these motors, like the one you saw, they are easy to make, can be a lot less complicated than that one was, Baldor mounts it inside the Housing, very simple, just a single Brush holder, I have tried to find someone at Baldor to get some of them, but no luck yet
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Re: Emcoturn 120 retrofit
sounds good, Ill design something as part of the initial buildup, thanx, Im an ME so Im learning a lot. looks like there are commercial parts avaialble. a quick search found these, I would make a shaft sleeve and a mounting bracket and then use something like this, does that sound like it would be sufficient?
Re: Emcoturn 120 retrofit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CincyTJ
sounds good, Ill design something as part of the initial buildup, thanx, Im an ME so Im learning a lot. looks like there are commercial parts avaialble. a quick search found these, I would make a shaft sleeve and a mounting bracket and then use something like this, does that sound like it would be sufficient?
You need the Brush holder like this, that has a built in spring that pushes on the back of the Brush, you are on the right track, some have the spring and some do not, there is room to mount them inside the motor housing
Re: Emcoturn 120 retrofit
Emcotronic TM02 control and the Emco transformer are listed on Ebay
control 111955514667
transformer 111955523257
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Re: Emcoturn 120 retrofit
picture of the DC motor with the back cover removed. this thing is big, the housing on the left side is a squirrel cage fan
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Re: Emcoturn 120 retrofit
started the dis-assembly in earnest tonight. pulled off the side covers and separated all of the cables and cut off the old plugs. I also pulled the cover off the tool changer to see whats up with that. looks like the ring for the sensors is damaged. If anyone has a picture of that ring could you please post it? I am guessing it will have 2-3 slots so that each tool position is identified discretely with 4 sets of on/off counters. I think I can duplicate this logic in mach3 and drive the toolchanger directly from mach3 using the z-axis output.
found pics of the ring and it is correct. so upon reflection it doesnt need 3 slots, one long slot that is over 90 degrees does the same thing. it will give alternating sets of sensor readings for 1 then 2 sensors as it indexes around giving 8 distinct combinations of sensors on/off. 1,1&2,2,2&3,3,3&4,4,4&1. just seems like they would have done a cleaner job of cutting the ring, it looks like it has been broken off.
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Re: Emcoturn 120 retrofit
here are some more pictures of the teardown. motor is removed, pulley came off motor very nice, I had soaked it over night with pb blaster. I now have all of the covers off but one. the last one wraps around the spindle tightly and I am not sure about the 3 bolts in the side of the spindle. Can anyone tell me what these are for and if it is OK to remove them? then I can clear in earnest. the ways look clean, there is some surface rust in non critical areas and the whole thing has a layer of oily dirt and chips.
Re: Emcoturn 120 retrofit
The one on top holds a tool eye. The ones on the bottom, are probably for securing a lever for an optional manually actuated collet chuck. These can be removed, but will expose the inside of the spindle, so should be cleaned.