ALIBRE / GEOMAGIC What are your thoughts about Support and Maintenance

Working with Alibre...now Geomagic for many years now and have gone though a few problems during this time.
I know nothing is perfect but im wondering what are your experiences with Support and Maintenance?
Have you had a support request and if yes. Did they help you and in what time?

thanks for the input....

There's a guy on the GeoMagic user support site that is not too happy with official support right now, so you might want to check over there:

Geomagic ? Index page

I had a few problems getting the support I expected a few years but lately they seem a little more responsive. My main problem with them is that I don't think the upgrades over the past couple years justifies the $400/year maintenance fees I pay. This will be my very last year of maintenance unless they make some major improvements and show evidence that they actually want to retain their customers.

For the money, Fusion 360 or eventually Onshape might make more sense. I've been beta testing Onshape and really like the way they've implemented CAD. They still have a lot more features to add to make the product competitive but are doing so at the rate of 4-6 significant features every 3 weeks or so. Unfortunately it looks like their free plan will be more limited on cloud storage and active projects than I'd like and it would be really nice if they could a support tier at $300-400/year that enhanced those two aspects.

Mike

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Originally Posted by MichaelHenry

There's a guy on the GeoMagic user support site that is not too happy with official support right now, so you might want to check over there:

Geomagic ? Index page

I had a few problems getting the support I expected a few years but lately they seem a little more responsive. My main problem with them is that I don't think the upgrades over the past couple years justifies the $400/year maintenance fees I pay. This will be my very last year of maintenance unless they make some major improvements and show evidence that they actually want to retain their customers.

For the money, Fusion 360 or eventually Onshape might make more sense. I've been beta testing Onshape and really like the way they've implemented CAD. They still have a lot more features to add to make the product competitive but are doing so at the rate of 4-6 significant features every 3 weeks or so. Unfortunately it looks like their free plan will be more limited on cloud storage and active projects than I'd like and it would be really nice if they could a support tier at $300-400/year that enhanced those two aspects.

Mike

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thanks Mike.....just what i thought.
I was not able to use my main computer for almost 3/4 year because they left me stranded and told me they fix it for the next version.
So i was wondering what for i pay the maintenance fee.
Now we have the same situation..since April i am no longer able to open solid works files. I requested help 2 times and still i am stranded again.
Same answer....they will fix it for the next version. Sounds familiar?
in the meantime i have to ask all my customers to convert their solid works file into step and send them to me.
When i asked them what i pay the maintenance fee for i got no answer any more.....thats a way to deal with it.
And yes for the last years the fee has gone up $100 each year. Last time i told them already one more price increase and i stop the maintenance.
Since years they do not that much improvements for the software......oh except increasing the price .... most is moving Buttons and functions around...

Well it seems i am not alone with the problem.

thanks for your input.....

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Originally Posted by Prozesstech

thanks Mike.....just what i thought.
I was not able to use my main computer for almost 3/4 year because they left me stranded and told me they fix it for the next version.
So i was wondering what for i pay the maintenance fee.
Now we have the same situation..since April i am no longer able to open solid works files. I requested help 2 times and still i am stranded again.
Same answer....they will fix it for the next version. Sounds familiar?
in the meantime i have to ask all my customers to convert their solid works file into step and send them to me.
When i asked them what i pay the maintenance fee for i got no answer any more.....thats a way to deal with it.
And yes for the last years the fee has gone up $100 each year. Last time i told them already one more price increase and i stop the maintenance.
Since years they do not that much improvements for the software......oh except increasing the price .... most is moving Buttons and functions around...

Well it seems i am not alone with the problem.

thanks for your input.....

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I paid for the sw and support is so bad I dumped it. No point in learning a sw package that will be gone soon. No way they survive with their attitudes.

I just restarted maintenance after being off it for a few years--it was a pain to do that. After giving them my money, I tried to contact them a few times with some questions, but they don't return my email. I tried calling and no one answered the phone. I'd like to know what the heck is going on with these guys? Does anyone know? Maybe they are being bought out again, restructuring, or just have really really bad management--maybe all of the above........This is sad to see this happen. They could do a lot of good with this CAD software and make a lot of money if they had the right people.

I tried Autodesk 360 and liked it a lot. But, I don't want to store my proprietary files on their cloud servers. If they allowed to me op-out of cloud storage and gave us the ability to keep files local, I would use Fusion 360. Right now staying with Alibre/Geomagic is my only option, but that may change, hopefully.

auburn,

You will have a lot more luck getting answers to your questions at the link in post #2 above.

Thanks, my questions were private in relation to my specific account- not an issue with their product.

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Originally Posted by MichaelHenry

auburn,

You will have a lot more luck getting answers to your questions at the link in post #2 above.

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I started with Alibre PE @ $200 about a decade ago. I think the only time I ever needed the maintenance was last summer when my PC died (and I built a new one) and I needed them to release the tied-up seat.

I dropped maintenance this month. I have zero complaints about the software (I am not a power user or using it commercially) and it was nice to get the 2015 upgrade that included sheet metal, but on the other hand I may never use the sheet metal module. Alibre/GM has almost always done what I wanted it to do, and I suspect that when it didn't it may have been largely my fault (see above about not a power user).

Be that as it may, $400 + sales tax for the next year of maintenance (I think it was $300 this past year and I really vacillated over paying it) was the last straw for me. Bug fixes/minor improvements have almost zero impact on my occasional use of the software, so I'm not going to pay that much for them. If they'd stayed at $100/year I'd probably have said "OK, whatever, that's under $10/month).

I have had a copy of Rhino since V3 (also about a decade a go) and I have Visual Mill 2012 Pro running as RhinoCAM under V5. Two years of skipped maintenance on Geomagic should more than pay for the upgrade to Rhino V6 when it comes out. Anything I did in Geomagic had to be pulled into Rhino (or VM 2012, as I had dual licenses) for CAM so paying extra money for GM when Rhino really should be my main software makes no sense.

I will admit that at times I find GM easier to use than Rhino (and vice versa). I like the parametric tree and being able to go waaaay back and modify something where I messed up without having to start over. But Rhino makes some things hugely easier than GM (like the PIPE command).

Clearly, hobbyists are no longer part of the 3DS/GM target market, at least for GeoMagic Design. I'm fine with that, as it is their decision to make.

So I'll use my copy of GM2015 as long as I can, and McNeel gets my money when they do their version upgrades which include support in the upgrade price.

Oh yeah, I'm on RhinoCAM/VM 2012 because I dropped maintenance when MecSoft went to a yearly program (like GM) instead of "pay us when we release a new version every 2-3 years". I'm sure they've come out with some improvements but the new yearly maintenance amounts were not making sense for my hobbyist budget for the incremental improvements they provided.

So I've got no complaints with GM (or MecSoft) on how the software works. It is just that they priced themselves out of my budget.

cheers,
Michael

Thanks Michael.
I see you put a lot of afford in your Hobby. I have Visual Mill and Visual Turn from Mecsoft and i am very happy with the software and the support i got from them.
I do how ever not agree with these ex-torsion practices what a lot of these software companies are doing now these days.
So they sell a unfinished product and let you pay to fix the problems.
now i talk about bugs in the software not new functions.
That would be an upgrade where i have no problems to pay for.....but on my terms and not on a fix yearly fake maintenance fee.
Just have tried to get an update on my problems with Geomagic (lost the solid works translator and cannot open solid works files). Answer is....... they have not fixed nothing yet...SINCE APRIL.!
Well they had no problems charging my credit card instantly for the maintenance fee.
Funny...... they have no bugs in the system when it comes to get the money....

My maintenance expired in February and I didn't renew it. The last one I paid was $600 here in Australia. I was extremely lucky with the free upgrade to Geomagic Design from Geomagic Design Elements for those who were on active maintenance. Not only that but I got an extra license, only had one with Elements. In that regard I was extremely happy.

However, looking at the talk on the Alibre forum I lost confidence in 3D Systems. They appear to be very financially motivated but without continuing development of the software. I heard their share prices have dropped dramatically too, maybe due to the way they operate. The only emails I get from them now are to advertise their 3D printers. It feels like they have forgot I'm I Geomagic Design user and always have been, and all they want to do is push 3D printers on me. I beleive that is the core of their business.

I can only hope my existing version of GM Design will last me for a good few years and my 2 licenses won't get lost in their system in the future.

A separate company (Flexera) provides licensing support so hopefully you will still be able to rely on them should 3DS drop support for GMD. If they did, however, it would only be fair (and smart) to convert existing licenses to perpetual ones that don't need to phone home every 30 days to function.

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Originally Posted by MichaelHenry

A separate company (Flexera) provides licensing support so hopefully you will still be able to rely on them should 3DS drop support for GMD. If they did, however, it would only be fair (and smart) to convert existing licenses to perpetual ones that don't need to phone home every 30 days to function.

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Thanks for that suggestion Michael.

I'm not exactly sure what a perpetual license it. Does it still allow me to transfer my license to different PCs. Right now I have to de-activate a license on the current PC then it becomes available for a new PC. Yes that reactivating every 30 days can be a nuisance. I've had to do it heaps of times.

Keith.

You'd want verification from 3DS or GMD, but to me a perpetual license is one that works without outside intervention - install it and it works. If the company decides to suspend support, I'd hope that they would release it to public domain, or at least grant original purchasers the right to install on more than one PC. Eventually new OS's will be released on which the software won't run and then you'd be out of luck for new PC installs.

Thanks for the reply Michael,

I'll keep on eye on what happens with Geomagic Design over the next few months or so. I've been allowed to get back on active maintenance in the past after mine had ran out, so if I see any reason to I could consider that. But if 3DS continue on their current path of trying to just sell me 3D printers and make no improvements to Design, I'll contact them about that perpetual license.

Keith.

FWIW, I have 2 perpetual licenses and just reloaded and licensed one copy and am sitting at the computer totally POed because Flexera, as far as I can tell, doesn't recognize that I have a legitimate license and I'm still in demo mode after 3 hours of trying to get it to work. I totally hate Flexera and it would be a definite consideration of getting rid of GM on it's own, even ignoring the fact that 3DS doesn't support any improvements in GM Design. Long ago I quit with the maintenance, it really is over priced considering that at best, they fix a few problems with no additional features, they don't appear willing to invest in the future of Design.. Alibre showed great promise but every year they changed suppliers of add-on programs and then the support or even functionality of them was lost and Alibre showed little concern for their users. When it was sold to 3DS it turned into a real mess, they care about short term profits and users are a second consideration at best. I honestly wish I could have more confidence in them but about every 3 - 4 months they get me POed and it's usually about licensing.

Flexera priortizes support for users that are on maintenance higher than those that are off. If you are off maintenance it may take them a bit longer to respond. GMD does sell a dongle for those users that don't want to hassle with on-line license verification.

Geomagic uses a third party rendering engine, which is notorious for a couple bugs that have been in place for over a decade. I found this out by googling the error, and saw it pop up with a handful of other cad programs. I almost always have issues exporting to third parties, like mold makers. There are almost always surfaces flipped, so there are weird triangles jutting out at odd places. Fortunately, my OneCNC can handle the files.

It also crashes regularly with fillets on corners with compound curves that meet other compounds, especially if the radius is larger than the flat.

Are there ANY cad programs that don't crash with complex files?

As far as their tech support goes, it was so bad many years ago that I gave up, but that was long before it was bought out. Who knows if that has changed, but I doubt it...they practically quit releasing updates after the buyout.

GMD has had several updates since the acquistion by Geomagic and 3DS, the last one about a year ago. They are overdue for another update but there is no official announcement verifying when that might be or what sort of features it will add or bugs that it will fix or even when it might occur.

The hobby version of Alibre was rebadged as Cubify and I don't think that there were any updates for that and some indication that support for that will be terminated in the future, if it hasn't been already. Custom 3D Printing, 3D Designs & Personal 3D Printers redirects to a 3DS site that seem to have no mention of the Cubify software product.

I've got Cubify Design product for sale on my site; its features are a subset of those available in the much more expensive Geomagic Design program, but it does work. It doesn't include the Keyshot rendering program that's included with Geomagic Design. The principal limitation is that it only exports STL, since it was conceived of as a way for people to design mechanical sorts of projects and output them on a 3D printer.

Andrew - do you know when Cubify Design was last updated and if there is a user forum for it anywhere?