Info asked about 5 Phase driver chips.

Salvaged from a copier I have a Vexta 5 phase stepper complete with the driver board.
This board works with the SLA5011 and SLA5012 drivers controlled by a thick film Hybrid EIC0241 and a plcc ic EIC0231. Because of this complex ic I hope it includes a complete sequencer so I can control the board with step, direction , enable and mode signals.
The control input connection has eleven wires, three ground and nine signal lines. I tried to find out if there are step and direction inputs among these nine lines, but it is not that simple. I find three inputs who act as a kind of enable but I cannot find a step input.
Is somebody familiar with this combination of drivers ? On the net I cannot find any datasheets, so if anyone has some information about this controller I would be very happy.

AbSat.

It seems not to be a commen used chipset :)
But I got the PCB working. It runs nice with the three 5 phase motors I have.
With a 0.72 degree motor the PCB can control the motor from 1000 steps/rev till 125000 steps/rev. With a 1MHz pulsrate at the step input I got 480 rev/min.
It seem a little overdone to me, but the hardware could.
The motor and the driver PCB came from a Konica copier so if you need a high resolution and have a lot of time, look for it. :)

AbSat.

You will need very fast hardware to run it as cnc with that resolution. 1Mhz=480rpm :eek:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DennisCNC

You will need very fast hardware to run it as cnc with that resolution. 1Mhz=480rpm :eek:

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The hardware on the PCB can as it proofed, but I do not think that any CNC program in a PC through the printerport will do so. For the test I used a 0.1Hz to 20MHz quarewave signal generator. :)

AbSat.

Hi , I have the same Vexta 5 phase stepper and driver.
The motor :
VEXTA Model : A5309-9215FK
5-PHASE ; 0.72° / step ; DC 2A ; 0.45 Ω ; 5 wire :blue ;red;yellow;green;black .
The driver is build with EICO231 and EICO241 chips as controller and SLA5011 and SLA5012 as drivers .
The driver has 3 connectors :
J271 ( 9 pins ) – for power supply
#1,2 : +24V
#3,4 : GND
#5 : +12V
#6 : GND
#7 : VDD (+5V)
#8 : GND
#9 : -12V
J272 ( 12 pins ) – for control input
pins : 1,7,11 connected to GND )
pins :3,4,5,6,8,9,10,12 -> 74HC541A (IC7) -> EIC0231 (IC6)
pin 2 -> LM358 (IC9) pin 3
J273 (5 pins ) – for motor (#1:blue ; #2:red ; #3:yellow ; #4:green ; #5:black ).
I can not find any datasheet for EIC0231 to identify the control pins ( STEP , DIRECTION , ENABLE etc. )
Can you please help me , if it is the same driver and connectors, with connections for the direction , step , enable and microstep selection signals ( J272 connector ) ??
Thanks for any info

Hello corbo.

Yes that seems the same driver board I have.
I send you a PM with my email adres so we can
exchange info.

AbSat.

:drowning: Help! VEXTA A5309 driver circuit please send to [email protected]

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Originally Posted by faruqx

:drowning: Help! VEXTA A5309 driver circuit please send to [email protected]

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Sorry faruqx but I do not have any schematics.
I have a few driverboards salvaged from copiers with the EICO 231 EICO 241 chipset. If you have the same driverboards I can only give you the signal inputs I found.

AbSat.

I've been salvaging Photocopiers nonstop for the last 6 months. I've just recently ran into the EICO0241/SLA5011 combo. The board it's on is rediculously complex, but I'd love any info you can share on the 241. Seeing as I have a dozen or so 5 phase steppers, this could be helpful with some future builds.

There are some things that shouldn't be salvaged no matter how pretty they look. 5-phase step motors (0.72 degree) are an example. 5-phase step are orphans because normal 2-phase (1.8 degree) motors require less expensive microstepping drives to equal the performance of 5-phase step motors. This economic reality has strangled the 5-phase motor drive market in its cradle. You won't find any commercially available 5-phase step motor controller ICs.

It's a tough, dog eat dog world out there.:-)

Mariss

"There are some things that shouldn't be salvaged no matter how pretty they look. 5-phase step motors (0.72 degree) are an example. 5-phase step are orphans because normal 2-phase (1.8 degree) motors require less expensive microstepping drives to equal the performance of 5-phase step motors. This economic reality has strangled the 5-phase motor drive market in its cradle. You won't find any commercially available 5-phase step motor controller ICs."
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About that: The only reazon for not using 5 phase motors is the drivers price??
Because, if you manage to make it work with the ones on the printer (Very dificult, i agree, but not impossible) you will get: lovely torque, great resolution (0.72 degrees) and no resonance...so the dam things look like a clockwatch... if you make it work
I have four 5 phase Vexta steppers im planning to use on my project. They are lovely, but it was a pain in the ass to find some information (I used a 16f84a pic at the end).

Maybe i´m missing sometingh here?
There´s any other reazon to dismiss them??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by corbo

Hi , I have the same Vexta 5 phase stepper and driver.
The motor :
VEXTA Model : A5309-9215FK
5-PHASE ; 0.72° / step ; DC 2A ; 0.45 Ω ; 5 wire :blue ;red;yellow;green;black .
The driver is build with EICO231 and EICO241 chips as controller and SLA5011 and SLA5012 as drivers .
The driver has 3 connectors :
J271 ( 9 pins ) – for power supply
#1,2 : +24V
#3,4 : GND
#5 : +12V
#6 : GND
#7 : VDD (+5V)
#8 : GND
#9 : -12V
J272 ( 12 pins ) – for control input
pins : 1,7,11 connected to GND )
pins :3,4,5,6,8,9,10,12 -> 74HC541A (IC7) -> EIC0231 (IC6)
pin 2 -> LM358 (IC9) pin 3
J273 (5 pins ) – for motor (#1:blue ; #2:red ; #3:yellow ; #4:green ; #5:black ).
I can not find any datasheet for EIC0231 to identify the control pins ( STEP , DIRECTION , ENABLE etc. )
Can you please help me , if it is the same driver and connectors, with connections for the direction , step , enable and microstep selection signals ( J272 connector ) ??
Thanks for any info

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Corbo, do you have some good pic about you driver board and maybe power source? Tanks!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by patriciooholegu

Corbo, do you have some good pic about you driver board and maybe power source? Tanks!

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In the attachments a picture of the driverboard I found and a schematic of the input functions I found. With these info a few members got there steppers running.

AbSat

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AbSat

In the attachments a picture of the driverboard I found and a schematic of the input functions I found. With these info a few members got there steppers running.

AbSat

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Tanks Corbo. I was hoping that your board may be the same i have but dont. As i say i was able to make it work like a clockwatch, but never shure about the ideal power supply: I used 5,12, and 24 in mine, but not -12. Last night i tried to take some pictures but they are all low quality ones.
My boards use Sanken SI-7501, they are not on any datasheet web page, but Sanken SI 7502 is, and they seem to be the same.
Do you now about amps of your power supply??
I will try to have a better camera to make photos of my driver and motors.
Sorry about my English.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by patriciooholegu

Tanks Corbo. I was hoping that your board may be the same i have but dont. As i say i was able to make it work like a clockwatch, but never shure about the ideal power supply: I used 5,12, and 24 in mine, but not -12. Last night i tried to take some pictures but they are all low quality ones.
My boards use Sanken SI-7501, they are not on any datasheet web page, but Sanken SI 7502 is, and they seem to be the same.
Do you now about amps of your power supply??
I will try to have a better camera to make photos of my driver and motors.
Sorry about my English.

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Hello patriciooholegu.

The pictures are not from Corbo but from me, AbSat. I am not shure if I had contact with Corbo because I exchanged info over email and I do not know if Corbo was one of them.
If there is any analog circuitry such as opamps on the board, in many cases -12V will be necessary. If it is only logic ic's then most of the times -12v is not used.
I had the luck that on my board test points for the supply voltages where labeled so it was easy to find out. I tested the system with a 24V 5A power supply but I do not remember the exact current values the board used.
Looking at the datasheet of the SI 7502 this IC controls only the driver stage, as a level shifter, and the motor current by the chopper curcuit. The sequencer for the excitation signals you have to build yourself. So I think that -12v is not used on your board.

Succes with your project. AbSat.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AbSat

Hello patriciooholegu.

The pictures are not from Corbo but from me, AbSat. I am not shure if I had contact with Corbo because I exchanged info over email and I do not know if Corbo was one of them.
If there is any analog circuitry such as opamps on the board, in many cases -12V will be necessary. If it is only logic ic's then most of the times -12v is not used.
I had the luck that on my board test points for the supply voltages where labeled so it was easy to find out. I tested the system with a 24V 5A power supply but I do not remember the exact current values the board used.
Looking at the datasheet of the SI 7502 this IC controls only the driver stage, as a level shifter, and the motor current by the chopper curcuit. The sequencer for the excitation signals you have to build yourself. So I think that -12v is not used on your board.

Succes with your project. AbSat.

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Ok AbSat. I succesfully manage to make the sequencer using a 16f84 and drives trough step-dir-enable signals from parallel port. i have plans on posting the entire project with eagle board and schematic. Just need some time.
maybe with the project beign published on cnczone someone is able to tell my from what photocopier it is (I buy it already dissasembled) and what is the EXACT power supply used by Ricoh.
Tanks for the info and i will let yu now wen is posted.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AbSat

Hello patriciooholegu.

The pictures are not from Corbo but from me, AbSat. I am not shure if I had contact with Corbo because I exchanged info over email and I do not know if Corbo was one of them.
If there is any analog circuitry such as opamps on the board, in many cases -12V will be necessary. If it is only logic ic's then most of the times -12v is not used.
I had the luck that on my board test points for the supply voltages where labeled so it was easy to find out. I tested the system with a 24V 5A power supply but I do not remember the exact current values the board used.
Looking at the datasheet of the SI 7502 this IC controls only the driver stage, as a level shifter, and the motor current by the chopper curcuit. The sequencer for the excitation signals you have to build yourself. So I think that -12v is not used on your board.

Succes with your project. AbSat.

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Hey Absat sorry for the inconvenience, but using reverse engineering on the board i found 1 PNP transistor (2SB1031) and for the datasheet should be negative voltage.

2SB1031 pdf, 2SB1031 description, 2SB1031 datasheets, 2SB1031 view ::: ALLDATASHEET :::

It is side by side to a positive rectifier diode and both ends going to the n-channel mosfet and p-channel mosfet
So I’m sure now about the negative voltage: It has to be there...but why?
Like i say, i managed to make it work using 5, 12, and 24 volts so i didn’t understand why it have to be in there.
What do you think?
This weekend will try to use a power supply i have: It have +35 and -35 volts on it. Something like 4 amps on itch one.
If i burn out everything, at list i will have 3 more boards to keep playing.
Thanks again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AbSat

In the attachments a picture of the driverboard I found and a schematic of the input functions I found. With these info a few members got there steppers running.

AbSat

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Thank you AbSat, I don't know how you got that info, but you saved my life. Between yesterday and today I butchered 16 photocopiers and all of them had EXACTLY those motors and drivers (between other precious guts). I'm happy to hear these are very rare and cool motors. Tomorrow I will test them thanks to your diagram. The photo is identical to mines. Just one question, just curiosity: are you sure microsteps are listed? 2x, 4x, 8x, 20x, 40x, 80x, 129x (yes, 129), and 250x microsteps per raw step are just sick!!!
it means 0,00288° deg/pulse!!
Other thing, do you know which is the max input frequency, and the minimum pulse width the boad accepts?

Does it work without -12v??
How is torque performance???

My son is a copier tech. If you knew what model these came from he could supply voltage info. Its possible when I show him the pic of the driver he willknow right off and may be able to tell me what voltage PS they ran from.


Most copiers run 24v or 28v on the motors, but a few have 35v or even 48v supplies (older ones I think run the higher voltages). The motors themself could probbaly stand much more voltage, but the drives may be a different story. I will see what he says about the pic of the drive.



Jess

Sorry for this late reaction, but I was busy with other things.
In fact I did not do anything with steppers and routers for the last 3 years.
I found the function of the connections by reverse engineering from the PCB and carefully putting signals on the inputs.
I got the motors running with a square wave generator as step input pulse.
I do not recall the exact values, and the microstep table is made measuring the output signals and rpm's of the motor compared with the input frequency.
There must be a post on this forum in witch I named some values.
The pulse rate I feeded was far beyond the possibility of CNC software programs. ;)
I did not connected -12V, so it is possible that some analog circuitry on the board did not work properly. I even did not use the motors in real live because I found other interesting things to do.
I hope you get the motors running properly.

With kind regards AbSat.