Thanks for the Thread!! Made my decision on which company. NOT FLA...

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Originally Posted by wmgeorge

Off the FLA website "We have shipped out over 1,000 CNC Machines to customers so far over eight years. Those machines are being used by people to support their dream business, build dream projects, and more."

Not everyone posts a build Thread, not everyone comes online when they have a good machine to brag. People do complain online however, some over little piddly things, others are are a perfectionist type and will never be happy no matter what, some have real issues. So 6 posted complaints and the guy is still in business after selling a 1000 machines?

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As you know, FLA has a longstanding reputation for poor customer service, e.g., calls not being returned, emails not answered. The website claims, "Our machines come fully assembled, tested, and cut tested." We have empirical evidence that, in at least some cases, machines were not adequately inspected and tested before shipping. Otherwise, it would have been obvious that machines did not meet the advertised spec. and should not be shipped. These are things that can kill a business. Nevertheless, FLA continues. Hard to account for it.

Nate is now offering a 4x8 model and I asked him about the alignment issues. He said those have been addressed - Nate "The alignment issue are reduced. I have another improvement in process that allows each rail a full 1/4in adjustment that should completely remove any lingering issues."

If we had room, as I have said, we would upgrade to the 4x4 in a heartbeat.

David

Correct David, he has been in business for a number of years. In spite of a couple of disgruntled users here and one getting his money back in full. Granted he did not get paid for his time or gas returning it, but does Walmart or any store pay for your time and gas returning an item? A truly dishonest business,…. he would have never gotten a full refund. The other user got a new gantry as I recall. Not a way to run a business but I am a happy user. Had some minor issues but quickly solved. :)

But thinking of selling my 4x4 machine, wife wants to move to a warm climate at least for the six months of Iowa winter, we already had zero degrees and 4 inches of snow by Veterans Day!!

Caveat emptor!

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Originally Posted by GME

Caveat emptor!

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So Gary did you ever get your build done and operational? What have you made? I am trying to come up with some special ideas for Christmas.

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Originally Posted by difalkner

Nate is now offering a 4x8 model and I asked him about the alignment issues. He said those have been addressed - Nate "The alignment issue are reduced. I have another improvement in process that allows each rail a full 1/4in adjustment that should completely remove any lingering issues."

If we had room, as I have said, we would upgrade to the 4x4 in a heartbeat.

David

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The problem with that statement is you can not successfully adjust a Linear rail, with a 1/4" adjustment, having any adjustment would defeat the purpose of having Linear Rails, they have to have a solid machined mounting surface, having adjustment would be a disaster worse than the problems they have had before

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Originally Posted by wmgeorge

So Gary did you ever get your build done and operational? What have you made? I am trying to come up with some special ideas for Christmas.

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Check out Aspire they normally have lots of Christmas ideas they post a new one everyday through December

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Originally Posted by wmgeorge

So Gary did you ever get your build done and operational? What have you made? I am trying to come up with some special ideas for Christmas.

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Hello, Bill. Thanks for asking.

I still have to make the gussets, but I'm mostly operational. Still working on remodeling projects, so I haven't made much. I'm set up to make 9 drawers for some shop cabinets, but haven't run them yet. Using JointCam and the jig I made up to use with it.

I did run into a hiccup that I had to deal with. When making some maple hold downs I found the slots weren't cutting all the way trough. After scratching my head for awhile, I put a dial indicator on my Z axis and ran it over the table surface and found that it was lower in the rear than the front. After thinking about the sequence of events, I realized that I surfaced before installing the line filter on the VFD. I had some errant movement before installing the filter; none after. I resurfaced and rechecked. The resurfacing leveled things out. More evidence that the line filter worked.

I also have a post in the Mach support forum about an issue I'm having with the Mach4 touch module (for zeroing axes). For some reason, the machine sometimes moves to touch off positions, stops against the touch plate and faults. Sometimes it happens; sometimes it doesn't. No pattern whatever. History reports a touch, and then reports no touch and Mach4 goes to disable. If I rerun it it usually works, but not always. Very inconvenient. I'm not sure whether it's an issue with Mach4, the PMDX126 BOB, the ESS Smoothstepper, or an interaction with a combination of components. Hope to get that solved soon.

Gary

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Originally Posted by difalkner

Nate is now offering a 4x8 model and I asked him about the alignment issues. He said those have been addressed - Nate "The alignment issue are reduced. I have another improvement in process that allows each rail a full 1/4in adjustment that should completely remove any lingering issues."

If we had room, as I have said, we would upgrade to the 4x4 in a heartbeat.

David

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FLA's Saturn2 advertising still says the machines are "[b]uilt with an accuracy of 0.1mm," or (.004"). If true, why would they ever need 1/4" of adjustability on anything, except the interface plates for gantry squaring? The FLA site also asserts: "If the frame isn't fixtured properly, you will have issues with the linear rails not being straight and parallel, which ultimately leads to binding, unreliable machine performance and headaches for you. We do it right with the proper fixturing to ensure that each frame is straight and everything is within tolerance." Again, if true, adding 1/4" adjustment would be unnecessary. Finally, the FLA site assures the buyer, "All of the holes and plates on the frame are CNC milled to assure that each rail is within tolerance of each other to provide even more quality not commonly found on equally priced equipment." We know that too many machines don't come close to living up to the advertising.

Seems to me that if the advertising doesn't match the product, the advertising should change to reflect the realities, not aspirations. Just my 2 cents.

Gary

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Originally Posted by GME

FLA's Saturn2 advertising still says the machines are "[b]uilt with an accuracy of 0.1mm," or (.004"). If true, why would they ever need 1/4" of adjustability on anything, except the interface plates for gantry squaring? The FLA site also asserts: "If the frame isn't fixtured properly, you will have issues with the linear rails not being straight and parallel, which ultimately leads to binding, unreliable machine performance and headaches for you. We do it right with the proper fixturing to ensure that each frame is straight and everything is within tolerance." Again, if true, adding 1/4" adjustment would be unnecessary. Finally, the FLA site assures the buyer, "All of the holes and plates on the frame are CNC milled to assure that each rail is within tolerance of each other to provide even more quality not commonly found on equally priced equipment." We know that too many machines don't come close to living up to the advertising.

Seems to me that if the advertising doesn't match the product, the advertising should change to reflect the realities, not aspirations. Just my 2 cents.

Gary

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I my experience, websites are usually the last to be updated when a major change is made. Aren't you glad your away from all that… seems like its been about a year since you returned your machine for a refund. So whats wrong with building adjustments into a machine? Every shop tool including mills and lathes always have adjustments, Plus when you built yours you found it needed adjustments did you not?

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Originally Posted by wmgeorge

I my experience, websites are usually the last to be updated when a major change is made. Aren't you glad your away from all that… seems like its been about a year since you returned your machine for a refund. So whats wrong with building adjustments into a machine? Every shop tool including mills and lathes always have adjustments, Plus when you built yours you found it needed adjustments did you not?

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Maybe advertising is the last to be updated; however, as you point out, it's been about a year. How long does it, or should it take? And yes, I'm glad all this is behind me.

I have no problems with some adjustability. There's a very little built into the linear rails themselves. On the other hand, what does a 1/4" tell you about the care taken in the manufacture? That's a lot, and without a milled reference edge, a nightmare for most to get both straight and parallel. I got it figured out with the very slight amount of adjustability I had, but I'm thinking a lot of folks couldn't pull it off. On my machine, I started with a flat surface. On the Saturn2s, the tubing is dished, as is common with steel tubing. The method I used on my machine wouldn't work well on a Saturn. Also, I, like others had tubing that was welded out of square. That would defeat any effort to get the rails flat/straight/parallel. From the experience I had, 1/4" of adjustability would do nothing to get the rails adjusted correctly. Anyway, as the rails adjust from side-to-side, they follow the dish in the tubing and throw the rails off. Maybe there's something I'm missing, but I don't see how this 1/4" of adjustability improves anything.

Gary

From the experience I had, 1/4" of adjustability would do nothing to get the rails adjusted correctly. Anyway, as the rails adjust from side-to-side, they follow the dish in the tubing and throw the rails off. Maybe there's something I'm missing, but I don't see how this 1/4" of adjustability improves anything.

My square tubing is not dished, as you might recall I even uploaded a few pictures here none show any issues. You were the one that complained about not having any adjustments on your machine. Having .250 inch total is only .125 on either side of the design center. Having seen an extrusion built machine and all the bolts, made me decide on a welded steel frame. Added, it would be interesting to see how his engineer redesigned for the adjustment, instead of just speculation

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Originally Posted by GME

Maybe advertising is the last to be updated; however, as you point out, it's been about a year. How long does it, or should it take? And yes, I'm glad all this is behind me.

I have no problems with some adjustability. There's a very little built into the linear rails themselves. On the other hand, what does a 1/4" tell you about the care taken in the manufacture? That's a lot, and without a milled reference edge, a nightmare for most to get both straight and parallel. I got it figured out with the very slight amount of adjustability I had, but I'm thinking a lot of folks couldn't pull it off. On my machine, I started with a flat surface. On the Saturn2s, the tubing is dished, as is common with steel tubing. The method I used on my machine wouldn't work well on a Saturn. Also, I, like others had tubing that was welded out of square. That would defeat any effort to get the rails flat/straight/parallel. From the experience I had, 1/4" of adjustability would do nothing to get the rails adjusted correctly. Anyway, as the rails adjust from side-to-side, they follow the dish in the tubing and throw the rails off. Maybe there's something I'm missing, but I don't see how this 1/4" of adjustability improves anything.

Gary

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You are not missing anything having any adjustment would be a problem for any linear rail mounting, all rail mounting when mounted should have a minimum of ( 1 ) machined shoulder for the rail to be mounted against, I always machine a pocket this makes Rail mounting very easy and precise and it can not change it's position, most CNC machines of all kinds normally have a minimum of ( 1 ) shoulder without a machined shoulder there is no way to correctly straighten the rail

This being said the rails could be mounted on a sub plate / bar and the Plate / Bar could be moved around, this method is still not as good as direct mounting and can only have adjustment in ( 1 ) plane, which with these type of builds you would need adjustments in ( 2 ) Planes

So the whole thought of having adjustment of any kind would be a bad design idea, to try and solve a problem that should not be there to start with

Show us a picture of one of your precision machines that you build with no adjustments?

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Originally Posted by wmgeorge

Show us a picture of one of your precision machines that you build with no adjustments?

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Not much point of showing machines that don't compare to Hobby machines, There is a post on the Zone of a small machine I built with no adjustment, and had a better than .0005" tolerance as built, just see if you can imagine a machine that is 10meters long with no adjustments, only the support feet that adjust the machine for level we have built this same 5 Axes machine up to 30 meters long with no adjustments only the support feet that are adjusted for level

Just think what you are talking about just say you had a Haas machine imagine if you had to adjust the linear rails what a disaster that would be, it is no difference for a Hobby level Router Build

Found the thread from near 8 years ago https://www.cnczone.com/forums/cnc-w...ld-friend.html

So are your precision CNC machines being sold in USA or just in Eastern Europe? I can't seem to find you in your State business records as even existing or exporting? With the caliber of your machines you should be very well known. I am looking forward to seeing your machines in action. Yes CNC Zone does have commercial users who might be interested in your products. $$

Oh I forgot… thank you for taking time out of your very busy schedule to come here and comment and share your wisdom. BTW How many machines does your company make in say a month?

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Originally Posted by wmgeorge

So are your precision CNC machines being sold in USA or just in Eastern Europe? I can't seem to find you in your State business records as even existing or exporting? With the caliber of your machines you should be very well known. I am looking forward to seeing your machines in action. Yes CNC Zone does have commercial users who might be interested in your products. $$

Oh I forgot… thank you for taking time out of your very busy schedule to come here and comment and share your wisdom. BTW How many machines does your company make in say a month?

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You sarcasm is noted I don't expect anything different from you, I don't have a busy schedule, We don't sell many machines under our company Name GDL they are all custom built for many different seller's like the one below

We normally build 1000 to 1200 machines per year, these are large machines no hobby machines are built, although we do build 4' x 8' size machines and 5' x 10' which could be used in Hobby shops, Here is ( 1 ) in the USA that sells machines we build under there own brand name

https://newcnc.com/

Thats wonderful news I have relatives in Holland Michigan and I travel that way at least twice per year. I will stop in and look at some of your machines. I also have found them on google and contacted them by email. Glad your a successful business based in USA.

Thanks for your post, Mactec54. I'm familiar with NewCNC having seen them at IWF, et al for years. Nice looking equipment!

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Originally Posted by wmgeorge

Thats wonderful news I have relatives in Holland Michigan and I travel that way at least twice per year. I will stop in and look at some of your machines. I also have found them on google and contacted them by email. Glad your a successful business based in USA.

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None of the manufacturing is based in the USA , to build machines like this in the USA they would be too expensive, there are lots of company's world wide that sell these same GDL manufactured machines and use there own branding

All machines look similar the reason is most are made with slight custom changes in GDL's China factory, I may be building some new smaller machines in the USA starting in the new Year, these will most likely only be proto types and will then be built in GDL's factory to the same spec's this will be for the Hobby market, but our philosophy is small machines are just as much work as a large machine to build, so not much to be made $ wise by building small machines so may not get to market, But I will do a trial run though, all the Designs are finished just waiting for the go ahead