Fadals past the point of no return in terms of selling?
I've been on this forum for some years. I have two fadals. VMC4020, VMC20. both in well maintained condition. both with tool and spindle probes. both with 2 year old spindles (replaced myself). both with good way lube. One with full 4th.
Is it past the time for fadals when you can still sell one on for a reasonable street value?
I bought some brother machines recently, they're freaking awesome. totally different world, more or less only good for aluminum but 3x faster than my fadals. think rigid tap at 6000rpm, 2 second tool change instead of up to 30 second.
at any rate im to a point where shop space is important. i need a cmm. my fadal vmc20 is in the space where the cmm should go.
i figure, shoot, ill just sell my vmc20 for a similar figure to what ill need to put into a used cmm. well, looks like street value for a vmc20 might be less than $10k? no idea what the latest ebay machine is like in terms of condition, but how much does that matter? my machine is pretty good having probes and new spindle. makes great parts. hard to give it up on those terms. id do it for 12 to 15k, maybe even 10k. but if the street price is like 5k....
i guess its desitned to just die here? anyone else having similar conflict?
Re: Fadals past the point of no return in terms of selling?
Still good value for someone who needs it, great start-up machine(s). I'm sure many will be interested. I'd check with Fadal themselves who I'm sure will be able to guide you for the re-selling market price based on the type of maintenance that may be required to get them back to a refurbish/new state. You could be surprised!
I know what you mean about the speed of your new toys. I also have tapping centers, not Brother but in the same line... that servo direct-drive tool change is terrifying (2secs) not to mention the rapids velocity. Like yours; excellent for AL and other soft materials but still can manage steel and TI if not pushed too far ;) Particularly enjoying the small form factor, can fit those toys in a closet almost.
glws
Re: Fadals past the point of no return in terms of selling?
If it's running and makes good parts, then it's value should be more than the scrap value of the castings. How much more? I dunno... but I can tell you this - I wound up with my Shizouka AN-S project because I (with egging-on by my dad) put a ridiculously low bid in on a late-nite listing, and came back a couple of days later to find I was a: the high bidder; and b: the only other guy bidding (who later contacted the seller, which is how I found out about it) was going to scrap the iron and only wanted the PCBs from the control as spare parts. It worked out OK for us both in the end - I had no use for the 1978 control; so I sold the PCBs on to him for a price that we both thought was too good (he thought he should have paid more; I thought he paid too much... seriously - it's only method of loading programs was a paper tape reader!).
Anyway... the point of the above rambling is that you should probably set a reserve if you do the auction thing; and if you possibly can, be prepared to list it more than once in order to find it's new home (so... if possible, start early on the process).
:)
P.s. Yes, I do kinda wish I could just swoop down and give them a new home, but I already have too many CNC machines that are projects, and I also have no room, either!
Re: Fadals past the point of no return in terms of selling?
i believe a lot depends on the control and memory/networking features of the machine. for reference, this past november i purchased a 2007 vmc15 for $6k. it is a Fadal re-manufactured machine in very good condition with almost perfect table, rigid tap, 4MB memory, calmotion network interface, 21 changer, etc... i upgraded to 16MB and added a spindle probe and happy with the performance/$. my biggest frustration with this older machine is the memory limitation and network interface. 16MB is sometimes limiting and calmotion is ok but not like a true networked interface. working with a 20-year old computer control system kinda sucks. what is the age of your VMCs?
Re: Fadals past the point of no return in terms of selling?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
everettengr
i believe a lot depends on the control and memory/networking features of the machine. for reference, this past november i purchased a 2007 vmc15 for $6k. it is a Fadal re-manufactured machine in very good condition with almost perfect table, rigid tap, 4MB memory, calmotion usb interface, 21 changer, etc... i upgraded to 16MB and added a spindle probe and happy with the performance/$. my biggest frustration with this older machine is the memory limitation and network interface. 16MB is sometimes limiting and calmotion is ok but not like a true networked interface. working with a 20-year old computer control system kinda sucks. what is the age of your VMCs?
I think the pricing in this post illustrates my point. I didn't pay a huge amount for my machines either, but 2x at least of what you referenced here like 5-6 years ago, and then put new spindles, probes, 4th axis, etc. on. So in total i'm in a decent chunk in the world of fadals. I'm not complaining in the sense that those machines have paid for themselves over and over. its just irritating to think they'd go for even less than what was already cheap 5-6 years ago. I'm pretty sure you cant get a cnc mill going for less than about $12k by the time you rig it in, buy a vise, get the coolant functioning, and so on. but we may be getting to a point where (mostly because of fadals) you can get a viable machine up for less than $10k if you're an experienced equipment guy.
Re: Fadals past the point of no return in terms of selling?
Depends a lot where your located. Around my parts, 15K for a decent 4020 is about right. I gave 10K for mine, but I planned on reworking all the ball screws and replacing the lube system and bearings. So I ended up with around 15k in mine and she is nice and tight.
VMC20 is a pretty small machine. Probably perfect for a garage somewhere, but at what price, I don't know.
Your probes and 4th would probably be worth more sold separately. I still have my eyes out for a decent touch probe and I've about given up on a decent VH-65.
As dead as this forum is, and with the used Fadal parts becoming harder to get, and their prices continue to rise as parts are depleted, you can expect them to die an ugly death. A few years ago it was a decent deal for lots of folks starting out, but as each year goes by, it's getting harder and harder to justify fixing one of these when some of the parts cost more than the machine is worth. I still enjoy the one I have, but I make spare cash with it and I don't pay my bills with it, or it probably wouldn't be a 25 year old Fadal sitting in my shop.
Re: Fadals past the point of no return in terms of selling?
15k is par in my area also for a decent 4020. I havent put the 20 on the market or anything, just was thinking maybe to sell it and get a cmm. i may also move it to another area and use it as a graphite electrode machine.. time will tell.
small machines aren't bad, less distance to go = faster. my brother machines are a lot smaller than the vmc20 even. but damn they're fast.
in terms of paying the bills, thats an odd debate. if you buy a new 100k machine and finance it, the monthly cost is like $4k or something. how the hell are you going to pay the bills using a new machine?
I had a successful machinist tell me once that a new machine should cost $5/hour. i still haven't figured out his math on that. he has real stuff too, brand new mori seiki, brand new fanuc robodrill, brand new brother... etc. he also has like 4 fadals. just sayin'
at any rate to me it seems like the fadals are well worth keeping if you're able to tolerate the abysmal cycle times, and the maintenance time required. it certainly scares me that the parts are less available. sounds like we got into fadals around the same time / a few ish years back at this point. I dont mind parting with a fadal machine, but where to go? my brothers are old too, but they're badass. but, i could never get rid of the 4020 because of its size, and its reliability in terms of accuracy. the brother is a pain, you go helical interpolate a .5" hole and get .488" it works fine once you comp it in CAM, but its not right. each machine has its place i guess?
Re: Fadals past the point of no return in terms of selling?
No such thing as a FADAL past the point of sale. Someone will take it regardless. If it's in good working condition just put it on craigslist. Even if it is bad shape there are the original FADAL techs down in Southern California that buy them and refurbish them.
