8055 Motion Master Problems

Major problems with control operation. Attached are the programs that we are attempting to run. In this case they are a simple 2d operations. The first step we are facing the the box, in which the part surface is equivelant to the table, not Flat (we are thinking play in the linear rails, possibly :confused:). Then the second operation in putting in a grove around the inside, although the first cut operation is off (98% of the time) in the X by .02" to .08" and every Z step after is perfect in respect to X. On the second operation I am getting a drop in Z of .05" over a 72" span as Y increases, no steps gradual. Even though we are seeing the Z go - as Y goes + it does not even come close to the facing operation. On top of this the Display does not show the change in Z.

The Zip has both the Surfcam generated code as well as the uploaded code from the controller. P000001 is the First / Facing Operation and P000002 is the Pocket / Contour Operation.

Any help Ideas are greatly appreciated! I am just on the lost side of things with these problems.

Attached is a picture of the part that we are getting.
http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/v...idav/part1.jpg

Sounds like the mill-itself is not set-up correctly as well as proper compensations for the individual axis.

The only problem is that some times it works just fine. I downloaded all the manuals last night so I can see if there is somthing that I am missing.

The facing op ends up as:
x0y0 z=0.0 then x48y0 z=-.012 then x0y72 z=-.018 last x48y72 z=.01

This is totally different than the .05 slope we are seeing when we do the inside pocket. Which is why we are thinking the control, rather than the machine. At the same time frequently if we start at the oppisite side of the part, it is looking like we don't have the problem (will confirm some more today on that).

1. Is the table leveled? 2. Is the surface below your workpiece faced? or is material mounted directly to the table? Is the Motion Master rigged for vacuum hold down or just a flat steel table? You might want to use spoil material under and face that first to ensure flatness. Then your workpiece, you might see better results. Is this a 3 axis Motion Master or a 5 axis?

This is a 5 Axis Motion Master, with a Second Table "U", The unit is setup for vacuum but that is currently off the machine andthe part is anchored directly to the table, which is faced. We did go over the leveling, but what is throwing us is that the facing operation, the first operation, isn't even parallel to the second operation. If they were even close to being parallel then I would definatly be going all over the machine releveling.

I just double checked, on some different parts that were not critical and found we had the same issue.

Does anyone else have a Motion Master? If so what do your program headers look like? Should we be clearing anything?

I don't have time to go through your program - but now it sounds like either Surfcam is giving you whacky code or the model that you programmed from has bad geometry.

You are trying to troubleshoot too many things at once.
Start with the machine and control.
Try hand coding a couple of simple straight line cuts and check them for accuracy.

I think I may have the X step issue figured out (Mechanical Issue), I will explain in a little while. I am running some more test to see if it occurs again. If it does it is somthing every Motion Master owner should know.

Have you inspected axis drive belts for wear and tightness? On 5 axis the z counterbalance cylinder seals can be an issue. Servo encoders can also be a problem. Worked with Motion Masters for 6 years, doubt this is a control issue.

Just peeked at your programs..... you don't have much of a header. Start of our Fagor progams included these lines in the header:

G40 G44 G53 G80 G90

G51 E.005

Check your programming manual for g code definitions the G90 is Absolute versus G91 for Incremental. Wish I had more time, waaaaaaaay busy here.

It is rare to see someone talking about a Motion Master. Not too many left out there. We have two twin table 5-axis motion masters that I have programmed with surfcam and run for 12 years. I love the machines, but getting support is virtually impossible, since they went out of business. I hear the main guy started another company in Texas, somewhere.

Does your z-axis plunge on the left table (M14) as well as the right table (M15) when milling in the Y direction? Does it plunge when milling in X driection?Also check your air supply to your z-cylinder, regulators, and filters. What about your leveling pads in the front and back? Are they loose? The last thing I would do is attach an indicator to the head, touch down on table, then run table back to check for level.

One of them went here: http://www.westerncncinc.com/AboutUs.html and they still help out. Good peeps. If you have a Motion Master their machines will look just a little similar.Thought you should know since you have two of their twin table 5 axis, hope you don't have that wacked early tool changer.

Your file header information is completely missing. I don't think this will solve all of your problems but most of them. I am having a problem with my motion master 5 axis fagor also but i might be an encoder on the Z.. Here is some code you need in your files the most important is G51 E0.01 (look ahead tolerance) with out this everything we be "average" out of spec... You need to download the fagor 8055 programing manual as well obviously.

%TEST R ,-MX,
;(CUSTOMER- )
;(PROJECT- )
;(DRAWING NO- -REV-A)
;(OPERATION- )
;(MATERIAL- ALUMINUM INCH - 2024)
;(CYCLE TIME- )
;(PROGRAMMER- )
;(MASTERCAM FILE- TEST.MC9)
;(DATE- 11-18-09)
;(TIME- 12:15)
;(TOOL INFORMATION)
;(POSTED WITH 10.1811 TOOL LENGTH)
;(SAFETY CODES)
G53 ;CLEAR ALL ACTIVE OFFSETS
G44 ;CANCEL TOOL LENGTH COMPENSATION
G90 ;ABSOLUTE/INCREMENTAL MODE: G90=ABS G91=INC
G49 ;CANCEL INCLINE PLANE DEFINITION
G40 ;CANCEL TOOL RADIUS COMPENSATION
G10 ;CANCEL MIRROR
G17 ;SET PLANE TO X-Y
G80 ;CANCEL CANNED CYCLE
G70 ;PROGRAM UNITS: G70=INCHES, G71=MILLIMETERS
G94 ;FEED MODE: G94=INCHES/MIN. G95=INCHES/REV.
G01 G53 Z-1.0 F100.
G00 B0.C0.
G51 E0.010 ;LOOK AHEAD TOLERANCE (E)
;(START FILE)
T1
;( Undefined )
S18000 M3
G53 Z-1. F100.
;(ORGX54=0,ORGY54=0)
G54

CODE HERE...

THEN... END OF FILE IS

M5
G53 G01 Z-1. F100.
G53 X0 Y0 B0 C0
M30

focusroger

Well to simplify everything, the problem with Z has not shown back up, so I am starting to believe that it was a setup issue, even though we thought we double checked everything.

The problem with the "Step" is a Machine problem. Reading back to my original post I misspoke a little, it was with the Y not the X. The problem is the way the head is Driven. The Motor is on a Spring Loaded pivot plate. Even though the spring was pretty tight to begin with, the rapid at the start of the program casued the position to be incorrect. The spring basically is an adjustment for backlash.
http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/v...IMAG0165-1.jpg
We ended up replacing our spring with the next step heavier spring. The original was a Blue, and we replaced it with a Red. For anyone that want to know it is easily adjusted with a 3/8" Allen Wrench from the Front Side.
http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/v...IMAG0166-1.jpg

I am currently working on my header attempting to evaluate all the past programs to determine what if any you guys recommendations are going to effect our past programming method, in order to prevent future program hickups.

I just picked up this thread - its been a while since I have had a chance to work my way through the various website forums.

By way of a bit of advice and also a question; we have one of only two Motionmasters in Britain, so support can seem a bit thin on the ground. However, support is definately available in US, from the company that rose from the ashes of Motionmaster, employing the engineering brains behind the operation.

The company is:

Diversified Machine Systems
2310 Executive Circle
Colorado Springs, CO 80906
Phone 719-226-5066 x 227
Fax 719-226-9810
[email protected]

We have always been able to get telephone support and spares, and they are super helpful. Give them a try.

On the issue of the question, we are in the early stages of deploying some new software - Vero Machining Strategist - and are really struggling with the whole rotating head thing. So far, we have managed to successfully rotate round the tool tip in G48, but when we do so, the X and Y co-ordinates seem to be out by the tool offset - D01.

If any one has any sample 3 + 2 programs, or a crib sheet, to help us get on the right track, it would be really appreciated. At the moment, the boffins at Vero are also struggling to sort this out.

Many thanks,

Robert Smith