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30x30" open source CNC machine design
Sienci Labs - Simple and Affordable Desktop CNC Milling
Has a new open source shapeoko / xcarve type machine using inexpensive aluminum angle profiles.
One can get all the x and z axis laser cut steel plates on line at https://www.2twentytwosteel.com/ for about $125
3d parts can be printed at home using abs or petg
aluminum angle can be bought online or locally
and all the wheels, threaded rod, etc can be bought at Bulk-Man 3D – Online Store
They are selling them for $1300, but I think one can get them made for around $600 to $700 not including labor.
everything is well documented on their onshape model and any part can be downloaded easily.
I've never made an x/y cnc machine before would this be a good starter project?
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Re: 30x30" open source CNC machine design
That machine looks like it has serious flex issues. Especially on the X-axis beam. If you want to get into CNC cheap, look at the CBeam machines like the workbee. Still has some flex but more substantial looking than the Scienci frame.
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Re: 30x30" open source CNC machine design
Quote:
Originally Posted by
aluminumwelder
Sienci Labs - Simple and Affordable Desktop CNC Milling
Has a new open source shapeoko / xcarve type machine using inexpensive aluminum angle profiles.
One can get all the x and z axis laser cut steel plates on line at
https://www.2twentytwosteel.com/ for about $125
3d parts can be printed at home using abs or petg
aluminum angle can be bought online or locally
and all the wheels, threaded rod, etc can be bought at
Bulk-Man 3D – Online Store
They are selling them for $1300, but I think one can get them made for around $600 to $700 not including labor.
everything is well documented on their onshape model and any part can be downloaded easily.
I've never made an x/y cnc machine before would this be a good starter project?
No not a good starter project
These machines are worse than buying a Chinese machine V-roller slides for machines like this are history
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Re: 30x30" open source CNC machine design
Why... ???
T-slot aluminum (2020, 3030, etc) and associated hardware (connectors, etc) is readily available, and not very expensive, and a lot stiffer?
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Re: 30x30" open source CNC machine design
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B27nUN1ejIQ
machine does not have much flex at all. Its' not even been delivered yet so bit premature to judge how good it is?
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Re: 30x30" open source CNC machine design
Because even when you buy direct from China a complete machine is $1200 usd shipped. That $1200 price includes a $363 air cooled spindle though so more like $937 usd total without spindle. I can make this for about $600 so saving a few hundred . https://bulkman3d.com/product/wbf/
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Re: 30x30" open source CNC machine design
the X beam initially did have too much deflection so they doubled it up two angles back to back. Personally I might try just using steel angle that has the end of each leg milled down to give it a square profile. You tube video shows very little deflection.
I am surprised no has has come up with an aluminum external profile that can accomodate a steel tube epoxied into the inside to give it more rigidity. Steel is about 3x stronger than most aluminums.
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Re: 30x30" open source CNC machine design
Quote:
Originally Posted by
aluminumwelder
the X beam initially did have too much deflection so they doubled it up two angles back to back. Personally I might try just using steel angle that has the end of each leg milled down to give it a square profile. You tube video shows very little deflection.
I am surprised no has has come up with an aluminum external profile that can accomodate a steel tube epoxied into the inside to give it more rigidity. Steel is about 3x stronger than most aluminums.
You obvious did not know what you are looking at the deflection is a massive amount for that small force 0.010" @ 3Kg, the max it should be is .0005" which would be 1/2 of one of those divisions on the dial which would be .0005" above this number and you are wasting your time
There are plenty of people that has added strength to aluminum profile after the fact, the deflection you are seeing in this video is not the aluminum extrusion that is flexing it is the Z axes V-Bearing slide the aluminum extrusion flex is going to happen when you start cutting which will add to this flexing of each axes, even if you are just cutting wood you will see this in the cut
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Re: 30x30" open source CNC machine design
sorry your assumptions are incorrect. The z axis does not use Vbearing slides it using linear bearings. And if your material is pine wood and depth of cut is only .062" then 3kg is adequate, heck it might be adequate for 1/4 Depth of Cut. the fact that you do not give material or depth of cut specifications with your above assumptions makes it looks like you work for a competitor trying to bad mount the competition.. IMHO.
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Re: 30x30" open source CNC machine design
"There are plenty of people that has added strength to aluminum profile after the fact" and everone I have seen is a slow painful process. the aluminum extrusions should be made to easily epoxy a standard steel extrusion into it taking about 30 to 60 seconds to do.
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Re: 30x30" open source CNC machine design
It sounds like you are already sold on the design. You should go for it instead of arguing the points. Then report back what you learned.
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Re: 30x30" open source CNC machine design
sorry did not mean to sound defensive. Still trying to figgure out how good these V wheels are and if adding 8 per rail would help vs the only 4 per rail they have now?
Also would ball screws be a significant upgrade?
This will be a hobby machine, cutting mostly softwoods and some hard ones.
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Re: 30x30" open source CNC machine design
Quote:
Originally Posted by
aluminumwelder
sorry your assumptions are incorrect. The z axis does not use Vbearing slides it using linear bearings. And if your material is pine wood and depth of cut is only .062" then 3kg is adequate, heck it might be adequate for 1/4 Depth of Cut. the fact that you do not give material or depth of cut specifications with your above assumptions makes it looks like you work for a competitor trying to bad mount the competition.. IMHO.
The Z axes in the Video is using V-Bearings 4 of them for the Z axes he states this in the video, the whole machine is using V-Bearings, I will tell you again you are wasting your time with this design, even with 1Kg this design is a fail
If you want to build junk then go ahead, there is a new one that pops up everyday but most don't stay very long in the market place
I'm sure you can find an extrusion that you could epoxy some steel tube into, you have to do your own home work for that, most aluminum extrusion manufacturer's give all the profile dimensions how hard could it be to size some steel tube for what the profile is
Aluminum Extrusion can be manufactured to any spec's you want if you want to buy 5ton for your first order, which some machine builder do have there own Extrusion Profile
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Re: 30x30" open source CNC machine design
THE X & Y USE V WHEEL BEARINGS, THE Z AXIS USING LINEAR RAILS. THE V SLOT ALUMINUM ON THE Z AXIS IS FOR ADJUSTING THE DUST SHOE UP AND DOwn. i see a ton of nice hobby stuff made on youtube using v wheel cnc based machines. 1/2 a thou for hobby work is necessary. LOL, you think i am making swiss watches as a hobby. lol.
most aluminum extruders require about $1500 to $2000 die fee and only a 1.5 ton minimum order, kind of silly suggestion for someone just looking to make a hobby cnc.
if it's so easy to find a cnc appropriate extrusion to put a steel tube in then google it and show me.
sorry your replies are just flippant.
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Re: 30x30" open source CNC machine design
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mactec54
[U] most don't stay very long in the market place
shapeoko and x carve have been around for years.
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Re: 30x30" open source CNC machine design
Quote:
Originally Posted by
aluminumwelder
THE X & Y USE V WHEEL BEARINGS, THE Z AXIS USING LINEAR RAILS. THE V SLOT ALUMINUM ON THE Z AXIS IS FOR ADJUSTING THE DUST SHOE UP AND DOwn. i see a ton of nice hobby stuff made on youtube using v wheel cnc based machines. 1/2 a thou for hobby work is necessary. LOL, you think i am making swiss watches as a hobby. lol.
most aluminum extruders require about $1500 to $2000 die fee and only a 1.5 ton minimum order, kind of silly suggestion for someone just looking to make a hobby cnc.
if it's so easy to find a cnc appropriate extrusion to put a steel tube in then google it and show me.
sorry your replies are just flippant.
Yes your are correct, in the Video though at 2.32 he is calling the Linear Bearings (A 4 Wheel configuration ) someone that builds a machine like this and does not know the correct names of the part he is using is not someone you want to be buy a machine from, they also must be very poor quality Linear Bearings to have that much slop in them
The normal Z axes build with Linear Bearings will have no more than .0005" to .001" of movement depending on the grade of bearing being used, so he has a big problem with his Z axes
At that point of a Z axes you want it to be as rigid as possible and .0005" is quite normal for any of these machine, this has nothing to do with machine accuracy, it is a rigidity requirement
If your cutter can move around +/- .010 you are going to be breaking cutters, that is why the Z axes has to be rigid
There is no die fee if you do a 5 Ton deal, I have done it this way, and it works out better, ( have you ) :)
Do your own home work Google the aluminum extrusion manufacturer's yourself I have no need to use extrusion to build a machine which I would not use for a machine like this unless it was just a 3D printer or laser
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Re: 30x30" open source CNC machine design
Quote:
Originally Posted by
aluminumwelder
shapeoko and x carve have been around for years.
Yes there is a market for suckers and those that don't know any better
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Re: 30x30" open source CNC machine design
LOL, there is no die fee, or maybe the economies of scale make it cheaper so instead of just reducing the price they keep the price the same and tell you its' free, when one spends $25,000 or more it is easy to throw in "free stuff"
anyways I can tell you are a perfectionist with no real solutions for a lame hobby person like me, so you make your swiss watches, and I'll make my birdhouses OK?
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Re: 30x30" open source CNC machine design
Quote:
Originally Posted by
aluminumwelder
LOL, there is no die fee, or maybe the economies of scale make it cheaper so instead of just reducing the price they keep the price the same and tell you its' free, when one spends $25,000 or more it is easy to throw in "free stuff"
anyways I can tell you are a perfectionist with no real solutions for a lame hobby person like me, so you make your swiss watches, and I'll make my birdhouses OK?
The are hundreds of hobby guys that have built simple machines to start with and then built better machines once that see the short comings of the first build, just trying to move you past the first stage so you don't have to do it all over again
If you did spend $25,000 and made $60,000 from that $25,000 investment I think that would be a successful outcome, If a design requires you to do this then some of us do this to move forward, there is a Zone members that did do there own Extrusions for there CNC Router machine builds
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Re: 30x30" open source CNC machine design
so I want to buy a hobby machine and you are telling me I could get my own custom extrustions made if I only spent $25,000? LOL talk about not understanding my needs. Some people just go way overboard. The only people that are going to pay to get custom dies made and stock pile 5 tons of aluminum are cnc manufacturer's not hobbiests, I thought that would be obvious !
only machine I could find that uses rack and pinion and is under $2000
https://millrightcnc.com/product/mil...router-bundle/
not being sold till spring of 2020 anything that is currently available less then $2000 and around 24x24" at least , 30x30" would be better?
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Re: 30x30" open source CNC machine design
Quote:
Originally Posted by
aluminumwelder
so I want to buy a hobby machine and you are telling me I could get my own custom extrustions made if I only spent $25,000? LOL talk about not understanding my needs. Some people just go way overboard. The only people that are going to pay to get custom dies made and stock pile 5 tons of aluminum are cnc manufacturer's not hobbiests, I thought that would be obvious !
First off you said you could make it for X amount of dollars, then you complained that you could not find extrusions that you could epoxy steel tube into, I gave you some choices did not say you had to have your own extrusions made but what is possible
Quote:
Originally Posted by
aluminumwelder
only machine I could find that uses rack and pinion and is under $2000
https://millrightcnc.com/product/mil...router-bundle/
not being sold till spring of 2020 anything that is currently available less then $2000 and around 24x24" at least , 30x30" would be better?
So why do you keep looking at the same kind of junk !! build your own most people can do better than what you can buy the cheap junk for figure out a design type you want and go for it
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Re: 30x30" open source CNC machine design
Anything under $5K-$7K is a tradeoff, price vs performance.
The only thing that matter is if it meets YOUR expectations. For most of the members here, those cheap machines are just not good enough. Some people take their hobbies more seriously than others.
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Re: 30x30" open source CNC machine design
nevermind you have not helped me at all , you just like arguing bye.
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Re: 30x30" open source CNC machine design
Quote:
Originally Posted by
aluminumwelder
nevermind you have not helped me at all , you just like arguing bye.
Just for you here is someone that is having a problem with his machine, just the type you have been talking about https://www.cnczone.com/forums/uccnc...br />
cnc.html may be you could solve his problem for him
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Re: 30x30" open source CNC machine design
Hi Alumweld - You need to think about what you want to do. You need to have a specification for what you want to do then the decision is made.The machine will do it or not. To answer your questions. 1) Yes its an excellent starter machine you will learn alot and it may or may not do what you want 2) adding more wheels does not improve the performance of the device. I've looked at many of these things and generally the ones with more then 3 or 4 wheels have wheels that are not working. At this quality level the extrusions, the eccentrics, the wheels etc its not possible to adjust everything so all wheels contact. Even if they did the middle ones would not be doing anything. Why do motor cars only have 4 wheels? same question and answer. My suggestion is that you will build a far better machine in plywood then the ones discussed and it will be cheaper.... if you want to understand the issues in designing a machine and what it has to do read the Maximus thread. It starts from scratch and works through most design issues. Cheers Peter
https://www.cnczone.com/forums/austr...76822-cad.html
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Re: 30x30" open source CNC machine design
I will mention this again: T-slot extrusions are stiff, cheap, and readily available. There is a whole ecosystem of connectors and parts that fit them. They can be cut with a regular miter saw, or even a hand saw if you are looking for a workout.
There are many machines built from them; and there's even a whole sub-forum here for the subject: https://www.cnczone.com/forums/t-slot-cnc-building/
Linear rails - both the round and the rectangular variety - are also available for not much money, from the same general sources as the T-slot extrusions. They just bolt on to the extrusions.
Anybody with some basic skills, a bit of persistence, and willingness to read and learn from the resources freely available online, can make their own hobby-grade machine, and bring it in at a hobby budget. It's almost like playing with Lego, except you have to clean up the chips afterwords.
:)
P.s. - edited to add: if you get the round linear rails, be sure to get the fully supported version! It makes it much stiffer.