24000rpm rated spindle but only getting approx 18200rpm?

Hi,

I’ve just wired up a spindle and 2.2kw air cooled spindle. I’ve programmed in a few perimeters into the inverter to set the 400hz frequency etc. With no load its current top rpm is 18,200, where as it rated for 24,000rpm?! What setting should I be looking at programming to set up this particular inverter correctly?

Obviously life would have been a lot easier if i’d bought a Huanyang with all the posting about the set up of those but it wouldn’t fit the enclosure

Heres a couple of the scans from the XSY-AT1 manual although this list below might be more useful.


P00 Max voltage
P01 Reference frequency
P02 Intermediate voltage
P03 Intermediate frequency
P04 Min voltage
P05 Min frequency
P06 Max operating
P07 Min operating
P08 password
P09 password
P10 working frequency
P11 start stop

Additional to this will be programming 2 poles, 6amp motor rating and rpm if I can find the program number!


Spec:

Inverter
XSY-AT1
Model: AT1-2200X
Ver: A03
Power:2.2KW
Rated Current:12A
Input:1PH AC 220V 50HZ/60HZ
Capacity:8.0KVA(2.2KW/3HP)
Output:3PH
—
Spindle
Power: 2.2kw air cooled
?Voltage: 220VAC
?Current: 6A
?Frequency: 400 Hz
?Speed: 24000 rpm


Attachment 403788
Attachment 403790

Quote:

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Originally Posted by marbles

Hi,

I’ve just wired up a spindle and 2.2kw air cooled spindle. I’ve programmed in a few perimeters into the inverter to set the 400hz frequency etc. With no load its current top rpm is 18,200, where as it rated for 24,000rpm?! What setting should I be looking at programming to set up this particular inverter correctly?

Obviously life would have been a lot easier if i’d bought a Huanyang with all the posting about the set up of those but it wouldn’t fit the enclosure

Heres a couple of the scans from the XSY-AT1 manual although this list below might be more useful.


P00 Max voltage
P01 Reference frequency
P02 Intermediate voltage
P03 Intermediate frequency
P04 Min voltage
P05 Min frequency
P06 Max operating
P07 Min operating
P08 password
P09 password
P10 working frequency
P11 start stop

Additional to this will be programming 2 poles, 6amp motor rating and rpm if I can find the program number!


Spec:

Inverter
XSY-AT1
Model: AT1-2200X
Ver: A03
Power:2.2KW
Rated Current:12A
Input:1PH AC 220V 50HZ/60HZ
Capacity:8.0KVA(2.2KW/3HP)
Output:3PH
—
Spindle
Power: 2.2kw air cooled
?Voltage: 220VAC
?Current: 6A
?Frequency: 400 Hz
?Speed: 24000 rpm


Attachment 403788
Attachment 403790

---

You should not be running it unless you have all the basic Parameters set you can smoke them in a flash with the incorrect Parameter's set

This will get you started, but must set as many of the motor spec's as you can, if you can't find them, then some VFD Drives are auto ranging and will set them what it thinks it is driving the snips of the manual are not very clear

P00=220
P01=400
P02=15
P03=15
P04=8
P05=20
P05=100
P06=400
P07=100
P10=400
Acceleration start at 10 and adjust
Deceleration start at 10 and adjust

Hi,
there is a small point you need to be aware of......your spindle is an asynchronous motor.

What that means is that if your VFD is producing voltage at 400Hz, the rotating magnetic field in motor is rotating at 400 revolutions per second or 24000
revolutions per minute. The rotor will not quite do the same speed, I would expect something like 23500 rpm at no load and about 23000 at full load.
The slight difference in frequency is a fundamental part of how induction (asynchronous ) motors work and is called slip.

Craig

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joeavaerage

Hi,
there is a small point you need to be aware of......your spindle is an asynchronous motor.

What that means is that if your VFD is producing voltage at 400Hz, the rotating magnetic field in motor is rotating at 400 revolutions per second or 24000
revolutions per minute. The rotor will not quite do the same speed, I would expect something like 23500 rpm at no load and about 23000 at full load.
The slight difference in frequency is a fundamental part of how induction (asynchronous ) motors work and is called slip.

Craig

---

Most reach the full 24,000 RPM or very close to it and some go above the 24,000RPM

Thanks for the info. I'll check tomorrow against what I have input already when in the workshop. These are certainly different from the Huanyang.

P10 I have incorrectly specified, it is for selecting the panel or external analogue signal, therefore cannot be 400. Apologies.
P11 similarly is for selecting the panel or external analogue signal .

No idea where to find the acceleration or deceleration program settings ha :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by marbles

Thanks for the info. I'll check tomorrow against what I have input already when in the workshop. These are certainly different from the Huanyang.

P10 I have incorrectly specified, it is for selecting the panel or external analogue signal, therefore cannot be 400. Apologies.
P11 similarly is for selecting the panel or external analogue signal .

No idea where to find the acceleration or deceleration program settings ha :)

---

P10 yes I had a closer look it is hard to see in your photos it looks like it could be 0 1 2 3 Etc depending on how you want to control the VFD if it was a frequency setting it would be 400

It may not have acceleration or deceleration for a normal 50Hz 60Hz motor it would not matter, for your spindle it does matter but still may not have it most VFD Drives do have it though

Look at P034 for acceleration and P042 for deceleration they have some strange terminology this could be it I can't read your manual pages very well

Looks like you are ok for the Pole count it is 2 by default

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by marbles

Thanks for the info. I'll check tomorrow against what I have input already when in the workshop. These are certainly different from the Huanyang.

P10 I have incorrectly specified, it is for selecting the panel or external analogue signal, therefore cannot be 400. Apologies.
P11 similarly is for selecting the panel or external analogue signal .

No idea where to find the acceleration or deceleration program settings ha :)

---

I Have some more Parameters and some changes, I found I had a manual for your VFD, these are different from the first Parameters I Posted

AT1-2200XSY

P00=220

P01=400

P03=25 Default set to 15 and adjust

P04=220

P05=100

P06=400

P07=100

P10=1 Default Potentiometer control ( 2 ) External Control

P011=0 Default Key Board Control ( 1 ) External Control

P025=0 2Pole

P034=25 Default start at 12 and adjust Acceleration

P042=25 Default start at 12 and adjust Deceleration

P078= Max Amp Overload set to suit your spindle

P069=220/240 Over Voltage

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mactec54

I Have some more Parameters and some changes, I found I had a manual for your VFD, these are different from the first Parameters I Posted

AT1-2200XSY

P00=220

P01=400

P03=25 Default set to 15 and adjust

P04=220

P05=100

P06=400

P07=100

P10=1 Default Potentiometer control ( 2 ) External Control

P011=0 Default Key Board Control ( 1 ) External Control

P025=0 2Pole

P034=25 Default start at 12 and adjust Acceleration

P042=25 Default start at 12 and adjust Deceleration

P078= Max Amp Overload set to suit your spindle

P069=220/240 Over Voltage

---

Great stuff! I'll try these out today and report back :)

Hi,

Quote:

---

Most reach the full 24,000 RPM or very close to it and some go above the 24,000RPM

---

You really want to grab one of those ones that's goes faster than 24000 rpm, that's super synchronous, or an induction generator. If you can get a induction motor
to generate just by powering it up you could solve the worlds energy woes....for free!!!

Craig

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joeavaerage

Hi,



You really want to grab one of those ones that's goes faster than 24000 rpm, that's super synchronous, or an induction generator. If you can get a induction motor
to generate just by powering it up you could solve the worlds energy woes....for free!!!

Craig

---

I guess you no understanding what you are talking about, even the most basic VFD Drives have slip compensation try to under stand what is being talked about before you post with ridiculous replies

If someone has a need for a faster spindle why not they come in all speed ranges 6,000 12,000 18,000 24,000 30,000 40,000 60,000 160.0000 and they all can reach there programed speed

Slip compensation
The load-dependent difference between the reference speed and the actual speed of the 3-phase motor is referred to as the slip. This dependency can be compensated by the current measurement in the output phases of the variable frequency drive.


The activation of Operation Mode for the slip compensation enables as speed control without feedback. The stator frequency and speed are corrected depending on the VFD load.
The variable frequency drive slip compensation is activated during the first run or startup. The Stator Resistance is required to ensure a correct function and is measured during startup of a new motor when first commissioning.
If no guided commissioning is executed, the slip compensation can be activated manually. In these cases, enter the VFD value for the Stator Resistance manually according to the motor data sheet.

The variable frequency drive control behavior of the slip compensation can only be optimized via the parameters in the case of specific applications. The VFD parameter Amplification determines the correction of the speed and the effect of the slip compensation proportionally to the change of load. Parameter Max. Slip Ramp defines the maximum frequency change per second in order to avoid an overload in the case of a load change.
The VFD parameter Frequency Lower Limit determines the frequency as from which the slip compensation becomes active.

No Voodoo Required

Even though this thread has not much to do with my setup, a 1.5hp 720 rpm 6 pole 415V original motor in a 1940 Adcock & Shipley Model 1 mill, it helped me set up my AT4, the motor drives the horizontal cutting shaft and table motion.

So thanks to all the contributors.

I had been attempting to run the motor on a 240V VFD set to 29hz but at higher cutter shaft revs settings the motor would not start, there is the cutting shaft and the intermediate shaft to drive and both are substantial hunks of metal. I got it to run at intermediate revs by slowing the acceleration and using the VFD initial torque boost function. I expected this as A&S went to a 2hp motor later on. 6 pole 2hp motors are thin on the ground so I looked for another solution.

So I went to an AT4 which is 220v single phase input and 380v 3 phase output version of the AT1. On initial setup I set the amps limit P78 to 3A to be close to the 2.9A on the motor plate and at lower shaft revs it worked well, drawing only 2.2A at the lowest revs. But at the highest revs it was pulling 5.5A before cutting out with Err-6 over current, extending the P24 overload delay did not work as the amps stayed at 5.5A even with the shaft at full revs ie no longer accelerating.

The solution was 2 fold, the latest info sheet sent with the VFD omits any mention of P025 but thanks to this thread I set it to 6 pole, this drew the amps down to 4.5A.

Next I went into P034 and dropped the acceleration from 10hz/s to 2hz/s, the motor now only draws 3.2A at full speed and stays there even after engaging table feed. The extended acceleration time does not bother me so happy to leave it there. As the motor is from 1940 is is substantially built compared to modern motors, 10% higher on the amps should be no issue.

alguien sabe como utilizar la comunicacion rs485 en este modelo de variador sale poca informacion en el manual gracias