Have Tree 310 w/ 3 phase power. Best solution to hook to my shops Single Phase 240 V
I just bought a Tree 310 CNC Mill with Dynapath Control (20 series I think). It uses 3 Ph 230 V 30 FLA power. My shop is wired for 240 V 200 amp Single phase power.
What is the best way to interface this machine with my shop power-- Rotary Phase Converter? Solid State Phase Converter, VFD for the spindle and 120V AC for the controller?
What size do I need and any recommendations for make/model?
Thanks,
Smitty
Re: Have Tree 310 w/ 3 phase power. Best solution to hook to my shops Single Phase 24
If the control system will run on 120V then it would make the most sense to run it from a wall plug, and power the spindle with a 3HP VFD rated for single phase input. This is the way I am running my machine. My personal preference for a VFD is the Automation Direct GS3 units. https://www.automationdirect.com/adc..._vac)/gs3-23p0
Re: Have Tree 310 w/ 3 phase power. Best solution to hook to my shops Single Phase 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by
UtahSmitty
I just bought a Tree 310 CNC Mill with Dynapath Control (20 series I think). It uses 3 Ph 230 V 30 FLA power. My shop is wired for 240 V 200 amp Single phase power.
What is the best way to interface this machine with my shop power-- Rotary Phase Converter? Solid State Phase Converter, VFD for the spindle and 120V AC for the controller?
What size do I need and any recommendations for make/model?
Thanks,
Smitty
What VFD Drive and motor Hp does the machine already have, you can most likely run this with the 240v single phase supply and use ( 1 ) L1 or L2 to supply the rest of the machine
Re: Have Tree 310 w/ 3 phase power. Best solution to hook to my shops Single Phase 24
I believe that model is very similar to the XLO's I had and retro fitted, these were fitted with single speed 230v 3ph spindle motors with Vari speed head, some versions of the Tree 310 were very similar.
I replaced the vari-speed head with direct drive and used a 240v 1ph for a VFD.
The control fed from 1ph 120v.
The one down side in using a VFD with the existing controller is that it may not be able to be configured for other that direct drive to the VFD, i.e. no variable VFD speed, just start/stop. If so you will need to keep the vari-speed.
Al.
Re: Have Tree 310 w/ 3 phase power. Best solution to hook to my shops Single Phase 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jim Dawson
If the control system will run on 120V then it would make the most sense to run it from a wall plug, and power the spindle with a 3HP VFD rated for single phase input. This is the way I am running my machine. My personal preference for a VFD is the Automation Direct GS3 units.
https://www.automationdirect.com/adc..._vac)/gs3-23p0
Thanks, Jim. I was hoping to be able to run the spindle from a VFD and not have to get a Rotary Phase Converter. I'll have to research more and see how to do that.
Smitty
Re: Have Tree 310 w/ 3 phase power. Best solution to hook to my shops Single Phase 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mactec54
What VFD Drive and motor Hp does the machine already have, you can most likely run this with the 240v single phase supply and use ( 1 ) L1 or L2 to supply the rest of the machine
It doesn't have a VFD at present. I bought it from a guy that wanted it to help build custom off-road vehicles, but he never hooked it up, and finally lost interest.
Regards,
Smitty
Re: Have Tree 310 w/ 3 phase power. Best solution to hook to my shops Single Phase 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Al_The_Man
I believe that model is very similar to the XLO's I had and retro fitted, these were fitted with single speed 230v 3ph spindle motors with Vari speed head, some versions of the Tree 310 were very similar.
I replaced the vari-speed head with direct drive and used a 240v 1ph for a VFD.
The control fed from 1ph 120v.
The one down side in using a VFD with the existing controller is that it may not be able to be configured for other that direct drive to the VFD, i.e. no variable VFD speed, just start/stop. If so you will need to keep the vari-speed.Al.
Thanks, Al. That's good information. I converted my previous mill with a stepped pulley to run on a 2 hp treadmill motor. It worked pretty good and gave me infinitely variable speed.
I actually would like to do the same with this mill, but the motor and vari-drive seem a little daunting to try to convert over., so I figured I'd just have to go with something that would work with the 3 ph motor. I'll have to research it more.
Smitty
Re: Have Tree 310 w/ 3 phase power. Best solution to hook to my shops Single Phase 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by
UtahSmitty
Thanks, Jim. I was hoping to be able to run the spindle from a VFD and not have to get a Rotary Phase Converter. I'll have to research more and see how to do that.
Smitty
If the control uses contactors to run the spindle, those can be used to switch the VFD control circuit and the wiring changes are minimal. You would only need to remove all of the 230V wiring from the contactors and wire in the VFD control wires, just simply using the contactors as control relays.
Re: Have Tree 310 w/ 3 phase power. Best solution to hook to my shops Single Phase 24
I assume the present mill has just a start stop command, if so I would find out the nature of it, as in some cases it can easily be used for the usual VFD start input it might just be a small control relay?
If going the route mentioned by Jim, I would just replace the contactor with a small control relay.
Al.
7 Attachment(s)
Re: Have Tree 310 w/ 3 phase power. Best solution to hook to my shops Single Phase 24
Here's some pictures of the mill. That company that last used it was cutting plastic on it and it's covered with plastic "dust". It also has some rust on it.. hopefully not too serious.
I think it has an Ericksen QC spindle nose... didn't get any Cat 30 tool holders... the ones from my Enco manual mill fit in the taper, but the ring is too large for the knurled collar to go over them.
Smitty
https://www.cnczone.com/forums/attac...d=425284&stc=1https://www.cnczone.com/forums/attac...d=425286&stc=1https://www.cnczone.com/forums/attac...d=425288&stc=1https://www.cnczone.com/forums/attac...d=425290&stc=1https://www.cnczone.com/forums/attac...d=425292&stc=1https://www.cnczone.com/forums/attac...d=425294&stc=1https://www.cnczone.com/forums/attac...d=425296&stc=1
Re: Have Tree 310 w/ 3 phase power. Best solution to hook to my shops Single Phase 24
Based on what I can see of the panel, it doesn't look like the spindle is connected to the control panel at all. Maybe there is more than the pictures show.
The QC spindle takes NMTB 30 tooling, same as my machine. A good selection on EBay. https://www.ebay.com/b/NMTB-30-Tool-.../bn_7024943710
Re: Have Tree 310 w/ 3 phase power. Best solution to hook to my shops Single Phase 24
Looks like the panel had a option for Spindle Override on some versions.
Do you have the control documentation? Generally most CNC systems have a dual controller, one for the CNC (motion) and one for the PLC (M,S,T codes) , the PLC usually has an output to turn on the spindle, at minimum.
If it does have a M3, M4, M5 even if no S command , you may be able to use this for the VFD.
Al.
Re: Have Tree 310 w/ 3 phase power. Best solution to hook to my shops Single Phase 24
Thanks, Jim. I have some various NMTB tooling for another mill and I tried to insert it in the spindle on the Tree 310. Even when I took the nut off, the outside diameter of the flange was too big to work with it. I believe this is an Erickson 30 QC spindle, but I'll have to try to find some brand name Erickson, Kennametal, or Valenite tool holders... the one's I've seen are pricey...
Smitty
Re: Have Tree 310 w/ 3 phase power. Best solution to hook to my shops Single Phase 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Al_The_Man
Looks like the panel had a option for Spindle Override on some versions.
Do you have the control documentation? Generally most CNC systems have a dual controller, one for the CNC (motion) and one for the PLC (M,S,T codes) , the PLC usually has an output to turn on the spindle, at minimum.
If it does have a M3, M4, M5 even if no S command , you may be able to use this for the VFD.
Al.
Al
I have the Dynapath book, plus some drawings, but I haven't gone through them, yet. I'll do some looking and hopefully find more information. I'd like to use a VFD as my Trak lathe uses a 10hp RPC, and I'd like to keep the load on my circuits down as much as possible.
Thanks for your information,
Smitty
Re: Have Tree 310 w/ 3 phase power. Best solution to hook to my shops Single Phase 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by
UtahSmitty
Thanks, Jim. I have some various NMTB tooling for another mill and I tried to insert it in the spindle on the Tree 310. Even when I took the nut off, the outside diameter of the flange was too big to work with it. I believe this is an Erickson 30 QC spindle, but I'll have to try to find some brand name Erickson, Kennametal, or Valenite tool holders... the one's I've seen are pricey...
Smitty
I did buy some standard NMTB 30 holders, I just turned down the flange, and also narrowed it up a bit.
Re: Have Tree 310 w/ 3 phase power. Best solution to hook to my shops Single Phase 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jim Dawson
I did buy some standard NMTB 30 holders, I just turned down the flange, and also narrowed it up a bit.
Jim
How did you narrow up the flange? There's instructions available from Erickson on how to narrow the flange, and the dimensions, etc. but they say to use a cylindrical grinder--for accuracy I suppose.
I don't have access to a cylindrical grinder, but I do have a 12" lathe with a 4 jaw chuck. I maybe could rig up a tool post grinder but I hate to get grinding grit on the ways, etc.
Smitty
Re: Have Tree 310 w/ 3 phase power. Best solution to hook to my shops Single Phase 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by
UtahSmitty
Jim
How did you narrow up the flange? There's instructions available from Erickson on how to narrow the flange, and the dimensions, etc. but they say to use a cylindrical grinder--for accuracy I suppose.
I don't have access to a cylindrical grinder, but I do have a 12" lathe with a 4 jaw chuck. I maybe could rig up a tool post grinder but I hate to get grinding grit on the ways, etc.
Smitty
I just used my 13 inch lathe and carbide tool bits, the $2.00 ones from Harbor Freight, 1/2 inch AR-8, but I suppose any decent carbide bit would do.
I didn't take any material off of the bottom of the flange, only the top. That way the original concentricity is not disturbed, the top of the flange should not touch the spindle nose before the taper is fully engaged, there should be a bit of clearance between the flange and the spindle nose when seated in the taper.
Over the years I have scrounged up some genuine Erickson QC holders at pretty good prices, so they are out there if a bit hard to find. EBay is a pretty good source as is Craigslist.
Re: Have Tree 310 w/ 3 phase power. Best solution to hook to my shops Single Phase 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jim Dawson
I just used my 13 inch lathe and carbide tool bits, the $2.00 ones from Harbor Freight, 1/2 inch AR-8, but I suppose any decent carbide bit would do.
I didn't take any material off of the bottom of the flange, only the top. That way the original concentricity is not disturbed, the top of the flange should not touch the spindle nose before the taper is fully engaged, there should be a bit of clearance between the flange and the spindle nose when seated in the taper.
Over the years I have scrounged up some genuine Erickson QC holders at pretty good prices, so they are out there if a bit hard to find. EBay is a pretty good source as is Craigslist.
Ok... I thought a good carbide bit might do it. I'm a little confused, though... all of the toolhoolders I checked had a gap between the spindle nose and the toolholder flange, what I understand you calling the top of the flange. It seems to me that if the collar's too thick, you'd have to take material off the tool bit side (bottom??) of the flange to allow the collar to operate.
Just wondering...
Smitty
Re: Have Tree 310 w/ 3 phase power. Best solution to hook to my shops Single Phase 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by
UtahSmitty
Ok... I thought a good carbide bit might do it. I'm a little confused, though... all of the toolhoolders I checked had a gap between the spindle nose and the toolholder flange, what I understand you calling the top of the flange. It seems to me that if the collar's too thick, you'd have to take material off the tool bit side (bottom??) of the flange to allow the collar to operate.
Just wondering...
Smitty
OK, a senior moment, I'm 70 so I can have those. :) I did those about 5 years ago. You made me get up from my chair and go out the the shop to look at a modified tool holder. You are correct, I did take the material off of the tool bit side.
Re: Have Tree 310 w/ 3 phase power. Best solution to hook to my shops Single Phase 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jim Dawson
OK, a senior moment, I'm 70 so I can have those. :) I did those about 5 years ago. You made me get up from my chair and go out the the shop to look at a modified tool holder. You are correct, I did take the material off of the tool bit side.
LOL No problem. I'm 65, and my senior moments are turning into hours... thanks for all your help.
Smitty