Fineline Shutdown or Perpetrating a Fraud!!
I ordered and received confirmation on a 2x4 Router Kit with accessories on 3/27/2019. My credit card was charged for the kit, accessories plus shipping. Multiple attempts to contact Nathan via email and voice mail for order status has failed. Absolutely no response from him. Does anyone know what’s going on. The business next to his facility says he’s only there in the evenings and weekends.
Re: Fineline Shutdown or Perpitrating a Fraud!!
Agree with Dave - Nathan has a great product line but stretches himself pretty thin in what is a competitive market - have faith
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Did you get the machine?
Re: Fineline Shutdown or Perpitrating a Fraud!!
Thats sad, I wish there was an answer. When did you purchase the machine?
Re: Fineline Shutdown or Perpitrating a Fraud!!
Not good...sorry to hear about your hassles! Hopefully these posts will make him do the honorable thing...
Re: Fineline Shutdown or Perpitrating a Fraud!!
What is the size of this machine?
Re: Fineline Shutdown or Perpitrating a Fraud!!
Not good, i had a look at their website. They claim to have good quality machines. Later this year i plan to put control panels up for sale, my biggest concern is quality and customer satisfaction.....
Re: Fineline Shutdown or Perpitrating a Fraud!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Erik F
It is a 2x4' machine. Other thought was to use the existing threaded holes to mount 80/20 extrusion and then mount the rails to that. That would definitely give enough adjustment. Or maybe drag it behind my truck town the highway.
80/20 has wiggle room, but it may be iffy to get 3/16 - 1/8" adjustment from 80/20 mounted on each side (3/32 - 1/16" per side). I use a lot of 80/20, and am just completing a new build with it.
If you saw my build thread for a 4 x 4 Saturn 2, you saw that mine was defective in about every way. Fortunately, when if first opened the box, I saw the in washer between the gantry mounting and interface plates. I knew something was very wrong. That led me to check everything right away, and found out how bad things really were. Fortunately, I acted quickly enough and was able to send the machine back for a full refund.
Something else to consider. Will you have enough Z axis movement, if you raise the gantry height with the 80/20? I didn't get my Saturn 2 set up (I had it on end on a large dolly), so I didn't check Z axis travel. I looked at some possible fixes (I really like the idea of a welded frame), but abandoned the idea in favor of sending it back. Way too much wrong with the machine.
You should also check to make sure the two side rails are in the same plane. I'd be surprised if they are. If there is a twist, 80/20 won't help you with that. Also, look at the steel tubes for square. If they aren't square, it may be impossible to get the profile rail properly aligned. The very best repair solution would be to have steel plates welded to the frame and have the frame stress relieved. Then find someone to mill/grind the on plates flat and mill reference edges for the linear rails. Finally, get new mounting holes drilled and tapped. I didn't get so far as getting the work quoted, but it has to be expensive.
I feel for you Erik. It's terrible to drop all that money on a machine that isn't even close to what's advertised, or nowhere close to being fit for its intended purpose.
Gary
Re: Fineline Shutdown or Perpitrating a Fraud!!
Its a shame that it can't be fixed and used. I did present a fix I thought would work months ago but it got shuffled off to the side. The other fix that could work is all the racks, R&P drives the entire workings be transferred to a CNCRP frame kit of the same size. They are a great company to deal with and they would not be growing as large as they are if they been putting out junk machines that could not cut straight parts or work everyday. Anyway that would be one alternative. I can't figure out why my machine works so well.
Re: Fineline Shutdown or Perpitrating a Fraud!!
GME and WMGEORGE. Thanks for the kind words. Nate has not responded to any of my text messages for the last 3 months. Before this when trouble shooting it could be weeks before I could get an answer from him. So a lot of the time I have had the machine it has been waiting for responses from Nate or parts being sent to try and correct the problems. He did at one point offer to take the machine back and I stupidly decided to keep at trying to get the machine right. In some ways knowing that Nate has abandoned my issues is sort of a relief...it sounds strange maybe, but wondering if you are gonna be screwed is sometimes worse than knowing you are screwed. I am not a machinist, so I don't know the best way to find how far out of parallel, square and if the rails are leaning in one direction or the other because the frame is twisted. I don't feel like putting any more cash toward this machine other than a little bit to see if I can find a solution to getting the bed rails parallel. Once the machine is to good working order I think I will sell it off for cheap. I have half of what I need right now to purchase the CNCRP Desktop Pro. I think that is what I will end up with next...and honestly what I should have done the first time, but I got fooled with the steel welded table and extra size. The Saturn was more in my budget also, but more proof that cheap pays twice. As far as mounting 80/20, I would have to drill straight through holes to mount the 80/20 with the existing theaded holes for the rails, then using t-nuts mount the rails to the 80/20. As long as my through holes in the 80/20 are large enough I should be able to get the rails parallel. Then if there is any roll to the bed rails I can shim the 80/20 to get the rails parallel, vertically and horizontally....hopefully the bed is not SUCH a hunk of garbage that there is no twist to it. I can tell you that with the rails loosened the gantry slides MUCH smoother. I'm sure half of that made no sense at all, but hopefully enough to get my jist across. Thanks guys for you input in means a lot.
Erik
Re: Fineline Shutdown or Perpitrating a Fraud!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Erik F
GME and WMGEORGE. Thanks for the kind words. Nate has not responded to any of my text messages for the last 3 months. Before this when trouble shooting it could be weeks before I could get an answer from him. So a lot of the time I have had the machine it has been waiting for responses from Nate or parts being sent to try and correct the problems. He did at one point offer to take the machine back and I stupidly decided to keep at trying to get the machine right. In some ways knowing that Nate has abandoned my issues is sort of a relief...it sounds strange maybe, but wondering if you are gonna be screwed is sometimes worse than knowing you are screwed. I am not a machinist, so I don't know the best way to find how far out of parallel, square and if the rails are leaning in one direction or the other because the frame is twisted. I don't feel like putting any more cash toward this machine other than a little bit to see if I can find a solution to getting the bed rails parallel. Once the machine is to good working order I think I will sell it off for cheap. I have half of what I need right now to purchase the CNCRP Desktop Pro. I think that is what I will end up with next...and honestly what I should have done the first time, but I got fooled with the steel welded table and extra size. The Saturn was more in my budget also, but more proof that cheap pays twice. As far as mounting 80/20, I would have to drill straight through holes to mount the 80/20 with the existing theaded holes for the rails, then using t-nuts mount the rails to the 80/20. As long as my through holes in the 80/20 are large enough I should be able to get the rails parallel. Then if there is any roll to the bed rails I can shim the 80/20 to get the rails parallel, vertically and horizontally....hopefully the bed is not SUCH a hunk of garbage that there is no twist to it. I can tell you that with the rails loosened the gantry slides MUCH smoother. I'm sure half of that made no sense at all, but hopefully enough to get my jist across. Thanks guys for you input in means a lot.
Erik
Erik, I'm not a machinist either. Before I retired, I was a suit and tie professional. I have a benchtop mill, but I'm self taught in its use. I hardly ever use my drill press anymore. You don't have to be a pro to figure things out. In case you haven't seen it, here is a link to my thread on my Saturn 2 build that turned into a big CNC disappointment. https://www.cnczone.com/forums/finel...cnc-posts.html It shows most of what I did, and how I did it with liberal use of photos. You might find something useful there.
I don't know your experience with 80/20. I've used more than my share of it. In fact, after sending my Saturn back, I started another build of my own design out of 80/20. On this one, I'm using Hiwin profile linear rails. 25mm on Y and 20mm on X. I bought the CNCRP pro Z linear rail axis, rather than try to build one. Here's a link to that build, which is still open. https://www.cnczone.com/forums/diy-c...machinist.html Maybe you will find something useful there as well.
If you would like any help, feel free to ask.
Gary
Re: Fineline Shutdown or Perpitrating a Fraud!!
One option might be to scrap the frame, and build a new frame from 8020 extrusions. Then just transfer the components over. This would be easiest option, if you can get all the dimensions to work out.
Re: Fineline Shutdown or Perpitrating a Fraud!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Erik F
I put a lot of thought in that direction. And on paper probably makes the most sense. However I just don't think I'm willing to put any more major $$$ at this machine. I have no idea how much wear and damage has been done to the components from just about everything being misaligned and all the issues with the drives I've had. My feeling is the pile of parts I have to work with are from Nate and no matter what that will never change. His care for quality is obviously very low. I doubt the components are any different. I feel the only thing that makes sense financially is to make this as good as it can be for the least amount possible. Right now in my mind it is worth zero dollars. If some labor and another 100 bucks can make it function with out it eating itself it's worth it but nothing else.
My suggestion from months ago.... add a piece of CR steel plate 2.5 inches wide .375 thick and as long as needed to the top rail and remount the linear rail on top of that. That plate can have slots cut in the top for mounting adjustment, ground true and shimmed as needed to make it level or on the same plane as the other. No it would not be perfect enough for some folks but it would work and the cost would be less than $300?
Or as I and Gerry suggested just build a new one using either 80/20 or CNCRP and transfer the controls and everything over.
He uses the same parts to built as CNCRP as far as I can see anyway from when I did mine.