Info on Fadal probe electronics and M codes

I've been studying the wiring diagrams for probes and have some questions.

What is the difference between M64, M65, M66, and M67? How do they map to the solid state relays on the 1100-1 board? In particular, the Fadal M code manual says that the MP12 requires M64 + M66, and a laser probe requires M64 + M67.

Also, with all these M codes to turn probes on, I don't see any to turn the probes off. How does this happen?

What, in addition to acting as a 24V power supply, does the 1570-1 board do? I see that the 1100-1 board is wired to supply 120VAC, which I'm guessing powers relays. How are they wired to connect the probe to J12? Am I correct in assuming that they are used as SPST and connect each probe to pin 11 on J12?

Thanks,
Ryan

Doing some testing with a volt meter, it seems:

* Solid state relay K16 / Fuse F10 are turned on with M64 and turned off with M65.
* Solid state relay K31 / Fuse F40 are turned on with M66 and turned off with M67. (The wiring diagram has a typo and says K41!)

Both M64 and M66 can be turned on at once. I don't know if these M codes are in any way used by the probe routines or alter the software behavior.

Without having access to an actual 1570-1, and the description that it switches between three probes when it only takes two input pairs and has two mechanical relays, I'm guessing that:

* It is using two double pole relays
* One relay has two probe inputs on its two poles
* The common contact of that relay goes to one pole of the second relay, and a third probe input is on the other pole of the second relay.
* The common contact of that second relay goes to the machine.

So that supports 3 input probes. It explains why M64 M66 are used to turn on the MP12 according to the diagram, and M65 is used for the tool setter.

Any thoughts? Do any of the probing routines actually set these M codes or change their behavior based on which M codes are active? And does the 1570-1 have any kind of signal conditioning? I'm asking because the tool setter probe appears to be just a switch and in the wiring diagram where it is used alone, and it needs a Fadal signal conditioner, but in the diagram where it is used with a 1570-1, the signal conditioner is absent.

Thanks,
Ryan

Old thread, but did you figure any of this out? I have a TS27 tool setter on my Fadal and now thinking about adding a touch probe.
Is there any reason why the M65 can just run the coil of a DPDT relay that swap the signal between the 2 different probes?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ryanpierce

Doing some testing with a volt meter, it seems:

* Solid state relay K16 / Fuse F10 are turned on with M64 and turned off with M65.
* Solid state relay K31 / Fuse F40 are turned on with M66 and turned off with M67. (The wiring diagram has a typo and says K41!)

Both M64 and M66 can be turned on at once. I don't know if these M codes are in any way used by the probe routines or alter the software behavior.

Without having access to an actual 1570-1, and the description that it switches between three probes when it only takes two input pairs and has two mechanical relays, I'm guessing that:

* It is using two double pole relays
* One relay has two probe inputs on its two poles
* The common contact of that relay goes to one pole of the second relay, and a third probe input is on the other pole of the second relay.
* The common contact of that second relay goes to the machine.

So that supports 3 input probes. It explains why M64 M66 are used to turn on the MP12 according to the diagram, and M65 is used for the tool setter.

Any thoughts? Do any of the probing routines actually set these M codes or change their behavior based on which M codes are active? And does the 1570-1 have any kind of signal conditioning? I'm asking because the tool setter probe appears to be just a switch and in the wiring diagram where it is used alone, and it needs a Fadal signal conditioner, but in the diagram where it is used with a 1570-1, the signal conditioner is absent.

Thanks,
Ryan

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by rwskinner

Old thread, but did you figure any of this out? I have a TS27 tool setter on my Fadal and now thinking about adding a touch probe.
Is there any reason why the M65 can just run the coil of a DPDT relay that swap the signal between the 2 different probes?

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It’s been a while, and I am no longer working with that particular mill, so I can’t check what I did. However, I did tweet about it and included photos:

https://twitter.com/ryanpierce_chi/s...246778368?s=21

I don’t think I ever was able to reverse engineer what the 1570-1 was doing, but I suspected it used 2 relays to support 3 different probes. As we only needed two, I believe I did exactly what you suggested. We installed a DIN rail on the left side of the Fadal control box, and I used a single 120V relay, controlled by M64/M65, to switch between a laser tool setter and a wireless IR touch probe. The 24 VDC supply was added to power the IR interface. I don’t think we ever finished wiring the laser tool setter, but we wanted to install the relay first so that we would get in the habit of adding the right M code in our touch probe routines; that way we wouldn’t need to change any of them once we eventually wired the laser tool setter.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rwskinner

Old thread, but did you figure any of this out? I have a TS27 tool setter on my Fadal and now thinking about adding a touch probe.
Is there any reason why the M65 can just run the coil of a DPDT relay that swap the signal between the 2 different probes?

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you would be better off isolating the output of each probe.
use an Arduino to control the input from each probe and close a fast relay NO/NC dry contacts.
i'm not sure how M65 could drive the coil of a relay? M65 is a software command that responds to the Open/Closed condition of J12 Pin 10/11. M64/M66 does the same thing with G31/G31.1 and the spindle probe on the same jumper.

M64 and M66 turn on Digital outputs on the Fadal board (K16 & K31), M65 and M67 cancels or turns off those outputs.

The M codes also let the software know which probe input to expect since 3 probes can be used.

M64 switches a relay to physically change the input from a tool setter to another probe (Touch probe or laser).
M65 cancel the above selection which puts back in Tool Setter mode.

M66 switches a relay to physically change the input between the Laser and the Touch Probe. (Touch Probe)
M67 switches a relay to physically change the input between the Laser and the Touch Probe. (Laser)

Why add an Arduino to switch a relay when the Fadal already does that?

I hadn't had but a few sips of coffee this morning but I believe I have that correct.


Richard

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rwskinner

M64 and M66 turn on Digital outputs on the Fadal board (K16 & K31), M65 and M67 cancels or turns off those outputs.

The M codes also let the software know which probe input to expect since 3 probes can be used.

M64 switches a relay to physically change the input from a tool setter to another probe (Touch probe or laser).
M65 cancel the above selection which puts back in Tool Setter mode.

M66 switches a relay to physically change the input between the Laser and the Touch Probe. (Touch Probe)
M67 switches a relay to physically change the input between the Laser and the Touch Probe. (Laser)

Why add an Arduino to switch a relay when the Fadal already does that?

I hadn't had but a few sips of coffee this morning but I believe I have that correct.


Richard

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give it try and post up the results.
i have a tool set probe on my desk that i need to install and your results may be helpful.
the K relays appear to be opto isolated solid state.
you are basically building a control board to replace the interface board 1570-1? and your are doing this with just relays?
why not have a fully isolated, fully controllable Arduino. it would literally take 10 minutes to program the Arduino and it would be just as easy as relays.

The 1570-1 board, the best I can tell, was nothing more than a transformer and filter to convert the 120 vac down to 24 volts or whatever the probe needed. The other two items on that board were relays. The K relays send a 120 volt signal out to the coils on the 1570-1 board. 2 Relays and 2 Output Signals for 3 probes.

An arduino is still switching relays, so what is the difference? That is unless your going to use the logic levels of the arduino to drive the input pin on the Fadal which I wouldn't do. I'd keep it isolated also and use dry contacts.

https://www.fadalcnc.com/media/catal...c/pcb-0137.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rwskinner

The 1570-1 board, the best I can tell, was nothing more than a transformer and filter to convert the 120 vac down to 24 volts or whatever the probe needed. The other two items on that board were relays. The K relays send a 120 volt signal out to the coils on the 1570-1 board. 2 Relays and 2 Output Signals for 3 probes.

An arduino is still switching relays, so what is the difference? That is unless your going to use the logic levels of the arduino to drive the input pin on the Fadal which I wouldn't do. I'd keep it isolated also and use dry contacts.

https://www.fadalcnc.com/media/catal...c/pcb-0137.jpg

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sounds like you have it figured out. LMK how it works out.
however, i would not personally use a DPDT relay.
I can not understand retaining the electro-mechanical side of any control components in a low-power high sensitivity probe control system.
Among other things, you don't want switch 'bounce', noise, interference, etc...

For the record, I'm not arguing....

I'm not saying that a relay is the ideal solution, and surely not trying to come across as a know it all, I'm pointing out how I *Think* the Fadal outputs work, and what they used. I would surely use SSR's and a Schmidt trigger to condition the input from the probes, which I think they did as well.

You're certainly correct, In todays world, they're way better ways to accomplish this than spending $300 on a 1570-1 board and they are simple solutions.

I actually design embedded control software and hardware for my real day job, but I was trying to wrap my head around how the Fadal worked and what I thought it was doing, thats all.

Ah, the other thing, you can bypass the SSR's and 120 volt interfce of the fadal and just use the pin sockets for a 5 volt TTL to control anything you wanted directly, such as a micro input pin or something like an ODC5. So yes, having all the electro-mechanical relays it a thing of the past, BUT, it does provide true dry contacts.

I decided only to use the M64 / M65 and installed a ODC5 module, then it drives a Phoenix Contact SPDT relay (CR1)
J12 Signal goes to the Common on CR1.

The TS27 feeds to the MI8 and then to the NC contacts on CR1
The Probe feeds directly to the NO contacts on CR1.
The MI8, Probe, and J12 grounds are tied together.

I tested this and everything works fine here.

Remember, debounce is built into the MI8 and the Probe interface before it gets to CR1. CR1 only switches the signal source.

Richard