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Hello Again!
Has anyone taken all the sheet metal off their Fadal VMC to clean and reseal the entire enclosure? I imagine it would be a COMPLETE PITA to do. I probably don't have the free space in my garage to actually do it but I do need to reseal the seams due to leaks. I hear decent things about Permatex The Right Stuff. I would guess that sealants used in the automotive sectore would be the best in this application because they are more geared towards sealing various oil based fluids.
First, this pic is about 75% of the chips and oil that I cleaned out the machine today. There are still chips all in the nooks and crannies and saddle that I still need to clean out. I think the previous owner believed in "If it ain't broke, don't clean it".
https://i.imgur.com/4Bh92rs.jpg
Soooo, as I was cleaning out all those chips and oil, the paint started peeling. It wasn't really bad but I am a wee bit concerned. It may be the CimClean 50 concentration that I was using in conjunction with the fact that it's the original paint and wasn't in the best condition to start with. I am really considering taking all the sheet metal off and getting them powder coated. Thoughts?
The left side chip tray is a lot worse than the right. Here is the left side.
https://i.imgur.com/mRMUiRP.jpg
Here is a close up of the bubbled up paint on the left side.
https://i.imgur.com/TNBuR2t.jpg
Also, some paint came off the top of the tool changer umbrella.
https://i.imgur.com/QuctaP6.jpg
Additionally, I think the CimClean also softened up the sealant between the panels. I didn't feel the sealant before starting to clean the machine so I don't know for sure. Also, not sure what sealant the previous owner put on it. There seems to be some sort of reseal attempt.
This doesn't really have anything to do with the hosing the machine down but how bad do my Z ways look?
Left side:
https://i.imgur.com/HGhbxgZ.jpg
Right Side:
https://i.imgur.com/B43Qu5l.jpg
They don't really feel pitted. They feel like dry skin. I figure using some Evaporust should do the trick. Then maybe using some emory paper and oil to finish it up. What do you guys think?
Last but not least, what are these? I got the machine with the left side way cover removed and these sitting in the left side chip tray.
https://i.imgur.com/yf2evgU.jpg
Thanks for any help that I receive.
You need to use a polyurethane chalking. The factory stuff is made by sika i think. I couldnt find this and used DAP polyurethane chalking from rona and it worked amazingly well. We tried all sorts of expensive sealants at my last shop without much luck but this DAP stuff is working perfectly with coolant. Cant reccomend it enough: https://www.rona.ca/en/slate-gray-po...00-ml-04915136. Clean it up good and degrease it with solvent like brake cleaner before applying.
Not sure what to tell you with paint. I painted my enclosure with typical oil rust paint and used another brand oil rust paint for coolant tank and neither is doing all that great. Paint has peeled off where it was bare metal, stuck where it was painted but its kinda soft, chips kinda dig into it while cleaning. If anybody has any suggestions of good paint please post.
Ways dont look the best, sand it down, then stone it to be sure you got all high spots then sand it with very fine sandpaper. Youll never get it back like factory but will probably work just fine. Just be sure to get the high spots taken down, and then smooth it with fine sandpaper. Dont use coarse emerypaper. Id probably start with 320, will take longer but avoid putting deep scratches in it. I wouldnt move the machine AT ALL until you clean that rust. That will be very hard on the turcite or rip it off like that.
I recommend you do not touch the ways with Emory paper that is just asking for trouble. Take some scotch rite and wd40 and scrub till the majority of the rust is gone then wipe clean and hit it with a stone if there are high spots. Clean again then give it a coating of way oil.
For the paint I recommend ditching that coolant. I just got some QualiChem 251c in my machine and so far it’s awesome coolant. Does not affect the paint and no rust. Then continue cleaning the machine out and just resealing it don’t worry about the paint.
Im not sure if every Fadal leaks but when I get way too much coolant build up from tons of chips piling up mine leaks a little.
I’d try scraping the rust off with a new razor blade before I used any type of abrasive. If it’s surface rust it will come off easily, pits are a different story
Edit: the left size Z looks pretty pitted, the right side not so bad, but it’s hard to tell from pics
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I'll have to take a look at polyurethane sealants. I am not dead set on repainting the machine but the OCD in me is feining. Was going to strip the sheet metal with a brush on aircraft grade paint stripper so I don't have to worry about sandblasting. Then use a two-part zinc epoxy and two-part epoxy paint. Of course I would degrease the living crap out of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by mmurray70
I have the white Scote-Brite pads (super fine, i think). I will give those a shot with some oil to clean them up. The only time the head was moved in this condition was to move the counterweight to the correct height to secure it for shipping. I hope that did not mess with it that much.
The CimClean is not the coolant. It is a coolant system/machine cleaner from CimCool. The solution is 1 Gallon of CimClean to 20 Gallon of water as suggested by the company rep that sent me a sample. It is a bit stronger than the 2% to 4% that the instructions suggest but I think the main issue is the paint was already comprimised. However, the cleaner worked very well and contains a rust inhibitor to prevent any corrosion issues after cleaning. (We will see) I have their CimPulse 50 coolant that was also sent to me for a trial. I want to give them a try before hopping over to QualiChem or something else.Quote:
Originally Posted by ianagos
What "stone" are you recommending?
My machine leaks at almost every corner. If I dont paint it, I will just use a real good sealant.
Would you suggest using WD40 or something like that for scraping with a razor blade? Never scaped rust with a razor blade before.Quote:
Originally Posted by ripperj
A medium or fine Índia stone should do fine. I doubt there are any burrs there on the ways. If you aren’t sure after you clean the rust off use a 123 block or parallel and move it along the ways and see if it gets caught if so you have a burr and you will then need a stone. The stone is useful for stoning your table and bottom of your vises aswell.
Also I’m sure your paint was somewhat messed up already but that looks like fresh peeling and bubbling from that cleaner. If I ever move away from QualiChem I’ll remember not to touch that stuff with a ten foot stick.
Oh yea. I have heard of India stones before. Even if the ways dont need stoning, I will probably get on for the machine bed. It def needs some attention, if you couldn't tell by the last picture I posted.Quote:
Originally Posted by ianagos
As far as the CimClean goes, I believe if it is indeed the reason for the peeling, it has to do with the extra strong concentration. Using a 2-3% solution would be great for general cleaning.
Oh, did you get your probe set up??
Your machine doesn’t look too bad honestly mine was much worse as far as rust and a way worse dinged up table.Quote:
Originally Posted by NismoGT
I have everything for the probe but I haven’t set it up. I’m still looking for this special conduit and trying to find the same wire they used on the ts27r. I just ordered a tschorn 3d indicator for $210 so that’s probably gonna keep me from installing it for even longer. All said and done I’m in for about $1150 without that conduit or wire yet though.
Look on eBay for the stone you can probably grab one for about ten bucks. The usual places like msc have them too.
Forgot to mention those blocks look like feet the machine was sitting on. Either there was 4 or the machine was on some very unlevel ground.
Ohhh! That makes sense. The machine was not sitting on these blocks when I picked it up so I had no idea. Now it makes more sense because it is a pain in the @$$ to get that coolant tank from behind the machine with how low it sits.Quote:
Originally Posted by ianagos
Hello
Got the ways all scraped using WD40 and fresh razor blades. I was a bit iffy with this technique but it worked out SUPER GREAT! At first my razor orientation was a little shallow and light to be effective so I had to use a slightly more aggressive angle and pressure to really scrape the rust off. Good thing is the ways are very smooth now (at least as far as my fingers are concerned). Having completed this, I successfully verified at all axii moved using the job function.
Left Side Z:
https://i.imgur.com/2DC2oEI.jpg
Right Side Z:
https://i.imgur.com/5bBl5sE.jpg
There is some staining from the oxidation but unless I get them scraped/ground, there is pretty much nothing I can do about that without damaging the ways.
Havent cleaned under here yet but I had a question about the spiral ballscrew cover. I imagine that this is not suppose to separate, correct?
https://i.imgur.com/rhtgaMg.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/w28OSUd.jpg
Its like a big spring, and uses its tension to hold it in place, nothing else. Not attached to the aluminum block at all. You can pull it back and clean out chips underneath, you should be able to put it back inside that ring in the picture after.
For sealing the machine SikaFlex construction sealant would probably be OK.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Sikaflex...6045/300934496
It's availible from Home depot in the contruction specialty area.
Have you used it?Quote:
Originally Posted by triumph406
Not on a machine, but on RV's, it stays pliable regardless of conditions. Plus as an adhesive it works very well, so it sticks and seals very well.Quote:
Originally Posted by NismoGT
Apparently Sikaflex is what Haas uses (fwiw)
Permatex "Right Stuff" is also highly regarded
Oh ok. Thanks. I was wondering was Haas used on their machines.Quote:
Originally Posted by triumph406
I resealed one of my 4020s about 3 months ago with Sikaflex, scraped and acetone wiped all surfaces when I had the sheet metal off, everything is nice and leak free now.
Brilliant! I will give it a try. How much of a headache was it to take off the sheet metal? Thanks everybody
Quote:
Originally Posted by NismoGT
LOL, a word to the wise, sealing an RV is a much harder task then sealing a CNC. If a product seals an RV that has temp swings from 40f-110f then it's going to seal a cnc enclosure just fine.
Did you ever do this? I bought another machine and the seller decided to dismantle the sheet metal to “pallatize it” and now I have to figure out what to reseal with. Thinking about Sikaflex 1a. How much did you use?
Thinking about repainting while I’m at it what type of paint did Fadal originally use does anybody know?
I have not painted or resealed my Fadal yet. If I were going to do it, I would use the Sikaflex sealant and 2 part epoxy paint.Quote:
Originally Posted by ianagos
When I bought a used car, the bodywork was too old, so it got putty and paint and probably a few layers of rust or mold. That was too much for me. I did an overhaul of the bodywork and sought the advice of a mechanic friend.
When I bought a used car, the bodywork was too old, so it got putty and paint and probably a few layers of rust or mold. That was too much for me. I did an overhaul of the bodywork and sought the advice of a mechanic friend. He told me what brands to use and how to repair the car properly. I won't hide the fact that I did a lot of work there. It took me 4 days, during which I worked from morning to evening without any lunch breaks. But I have absolute confidence in the reliability of my car now! I'll tell you the names if I have any packages left in my garage from everything I used with Seal with Ease.