Cannot get 0-10V from Breakout board

Hi all,

I bought a Chinese (Redsail) CNC router several months ago. I was surprised (=disappointed) to find that the only way to operate the spindle motor was to use the front panel controls on the VFD.

I have therefore replaced the supplied breakout board with one that has integrated spindle control (0-10V output).

I can get the X, Y, Z and A-axis motors to turn, but I cannot get more than 4.0 volts from the breakout board output.

As shown in the results of my testing (below), I have also found that the voltage does not change when different speed commands are issued in Mach3.

The settings used to get 4.0 volts are;

Spindle Pulley Number 1
Min = 0, Max =24000, Ratio = 1 (adjusting these settings made no difference)

Engine Configuration > Ports and pins > Motor Outputs
Spindle Enabled √, Step Pin = 14, Dir pin = 1, Dir Low Active = X, Step Low Active = X,
Step port = 1, Dir port = 2 (adjusting these settings made no difference)

Engine Configuration > Ports and pins > Spindle Setup
√ Disable Spindle Relays
√ Disable Flood/Mist relays
□ ModBus Spindle – Use Step/Dir as well
√ Use Spindle Motor Output
√ PWM Control
□ Step/Dir Motor
PWM Base Freq. = 4166
Minimum PWM = 5%

Spindle Motor Movement Profile
Steps per = 60, Velocity = 24000, Acceleration = 100

The following tests were done using a multi-meter connected to the 0-10V output and GND on the breakout board. The VFD was disconnected. The 10V adjust trimpot on the breakout board was set to maximum.
As you can see, the only factor that affected the output voltage was the PWM Base Frequency settings;

Config>Ports and pins>Motor Outputs – Spindle Setup
PWM Base Freq 4166 (= the highest I can set it to)
Minimum PWM 5
S6040 0.01V
S6041 4.00V
S12000 4.00V
S24000 4.00V

PWM Base Freq 2083
Minimum PWM 5
S2999 0.01V
S3000 2.14V
S12000 2.14V
S24000 2.14V

PWM Base Freq 1000
Minimum PWM 5
S1959 0.01V
S1960 1.08V
S12000 1.07V
S24000 1.07V

PWM Base Freq 250
Minimum PWM 5
S1239 0.01V
S1240 0.28V
S12000 0.28V
S24000 0.28V

PWM Base Freq 50
Minimum PWM 5
S1000 62mV
S12000 62mV
S24000 62mV

I also tried different Step Pulse and Dir Pulse settings (from 0 to 10us) which made no difference to the output voltage.

Just in case it matters, here are some details of the rest of the set up;

Computer
Desktop Pentium 4 2.8GHz running Windows XP (with built-in DB25 parallel port set to EPP mode)
1 Gb RAM
Mach3
(Version R3.043.066) Kernel Speed 25000Hz
Breakout Board
Unbranded Breakout board with 0-10V PWM output
Identical to this one - CNC Interface Board Adapter Controllable Conversion Spindle MACH3 KCAM4 EMC2 | eBay
Another page with this board - Pictures of CNC Router MACH-CNC Interface Board For PC MACH3 KCAM4,Buy CNC Router MACH-CNC Interface Board For PC MACH3 KCAM4 Products from Weiku.com
VFD
Xinfutai VFD (model FT-C001521 KDI)
INPUT: 1 PHASE 220v 50/60Hz
OUTPUT: 3PH 220V 7A 150%
Spindle motor
JGF-65B-1.0KW
1.0KW 220V 3.33A
400Hz 24000rpm
Redsail Tech. Co., Ltd.
Http://www.hflaser.com

At this stage I am assuming that there is a fault in the breakout board. I would appreciate any other ideas before I buy another breakout board.

Cheers

What are you supplying the 10V from? If you are just expecting it to come from the computer, don't think it will happen. The specs for the DB25 say maximum voltage is 5V. See the side bar in this link under "electrical". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_port

As the previous poster mentioned, are you supplying the 13V-24V to the breakout board?

Thanks for the replies packrat and ger21.

The breakout board is powered from a 24V (8A I think) switchmode power supply.

The stepper motors are connected to Moons SR4-H drivers.

Do you have access to an oscilloscope (or a friend who has one) and the electronics background to interpret what it shows?

I would expect that you could start by verifying that the PWM input to the board (at any frequency) can be set across the full range (from near zero pulse width to near full-cycle pulse width) by varying the Mach3 spindle speed.

If that looks good, then the next step would probably involve probing the spindle speed control output with the oscilloscope to see what it says the output looks like, both without any load and also with a load. It might also be worthwhile making a diagram of the PWM-to-voltage conversion circuit used by the breakout board to better understand what is going on.

I have a completely different BOB but it is switchable between 0-10 for the spindle speed and 0-5V.
Have you had a look to see if there might be something similar on this one.

Cheers
Bushwakka.

Hi doorknob and bushwakka,

Firstly - I don't have an oscilloscope and neither of my two friends have one either.

My breakout board does not have a 5V/10V switch.

As detailed in my initial post, the voltage does not change with different Mach3 speed commands - except that there is a minimum speed, below which there is zero voltage.

The Mach3 Mill User Manual states the the PWM Base Frequency should be set at 5 to 10 Hz. The fact that I had to set mine to 4,166Hz to get a mere 4.0 volts leads me to believe that there must a fault in the breakout board.

I have now ordered a different breakout board which should resolve the issue - so unless anyone has any other advice, I will report the results of replacing the breakout board when I get my hands on it (in about 3-4 weeks).

It would be very helpful if you supplied a diagram of your BOB connections. Did you supply 12V to the BOB, how? Did you connect to the 0-10V output and not the 0-5V?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WannaMakeStuff

Hi doorknob and bushwakka,

Firstly - I don't have an oscilloscope and neither of my two friends have one either.

My breakout board does not have a 5V/10V switch.

As detailed in my initial post, the voltage does not change with different Mach3 speed commands - except that there is a minimum speed, below which there is zero voltage.

The Mach3 Mill User Manual states the the PWM Base Frequency should be set at 5 to 10 Hz. The fact that I had to set mine to 4,166Hz to get a mere 4.0 volts leads me to believe that there must a fault in the breakout board.

I have now ordered a different breakout board which should resolve the issue - so unless anyone has any other advice, I will report the results of replacing the breakout board when I get my hands on it (in about 3-4 weeks).

---

Are you sure you want PWM? PWM will keep a voltage on for a period of the cycle time and then turn off. If total pulse time is 1 sec, then 50% PWM will give .50sec of full power on time and .50sec of off power. On a voltohm meter this will be seen as 5Vdc. But the VFD will see it as on-off-on-off. It may never come on.

Hi again,

in response to jjobezo and p38nut;

I have attached a simplified circuit diagram.

As mentioned in my original post;
“I have therefore replaced the supplied breakout board with one that has integrated spindle control (0-10V output).”

So the BOB does the PWM to voltage conversion (or it should!). Mach3 is therefore supplying the BOB with the PWM signal.

Extract from “Using Mach3 Mill” (revision 1.84-A2) page 4-12;
“As an alternative to Step and Direction control, Mach3 will output a pulse width modulated signal whose duty cycle is the percentage of full speed that you require. You could, for example, convert the duty cycle of the signal to a voltage (PWM signal on for 0% of time gives 0 volts 50% gives 5 volts and 100% gives 10 volts) and use this to control an induction motor with a variable frequency inverter drive.”

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WannaMakeStuff

Hi again,

in response to jjobezo and p38nut;

I have attached a simplified circuit diagram.

As mentioned in my original post;
“I have therefore replaced the supplied breakout board with one that has integrated spindle control (0-10V output).”

So the BOB does the PWM to voltage conversion (or it should!). Mach3 is therefore supplying the BOB with the PWM signal.

Extract from “Using Mach3 Mill” (revision 1.84-A2) page 4-12;
“As an alternative to Step and Direction control, Mach3 will output a pulse width modulated signal whose duty cycle is the percentage of full speed that you require. You could, for example, convert the duty cycle of the signal to a voltage (PWM signal on for 0% of time gives 0 volts 50% gives 5 volts and 100% gives 10 volts) and use this to control an induction motor with a variable frequency inverter drive.”

---

Is the VFD set up for a PWM input to control the speed? You must also either jumper out the enable and/or direction inputs or use a contact closure, such as the spindle on/off.

The VFD is disconnected. This means that it cannot be the problem.

If the Breakout board was working properly, its PWM to 0-10V circuit would be outputting the correct voltage, increasing with higher Mach3 S (Spindle speed) commands.

So I either have a faulty breakout board, or my Mach3 setup is wrong.

No-one has commented on the Mach3 settings so I still think that the breakout board is faulty and I will report my results when I replace it.

Thank you all for now.

Did you ever fix this? I am having the same issue.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WannaMakeStuff

The VFD is disconnected. This means that it cannot be the problem.

If the Breakout board was working properly, its PWM to 0-10V circuit would be outputting the correct voltage, increasing with higher Mach3 S (Spindle speed) commands.

So I either have a faulty breakout board, or my Mach3 setup is wrong.

No-one has commented on the Mach3 settings so I still think that the breakout board is faulty and I will report my results when I replace it.

Thank you all for now.

---

Hello,

I have the same problem. I tried to 12V and 24V external power supply and both didn’t work to me! The breakout board I am using is C11. Could you please share your solution if you happened to solve your issue. I am expecting a bob faulty as well since everything else work fine.

Thanks,

This seem to be a very common problem.....hope you get it sorted:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WannaMakeStuff

Hi again,

in response to jjobezo and p38nut;

I have attached a simplified circuit diagram.

As mentioned in my original post;
“I have therefore replaced the supplied breakout board with one that has integrated spindle control (0-10V output).”

So the BOB does the PWM to voltage conversion (or it should!). Mach3 is therefore supplying the BOB with the PWM signal.

Extract from “Using Mach3 Mill” (revision 1.84-A2) page 4-12;
“As an alternative to Step and Direction control, Mach3 will output a pulse width modulated signal whose duty cycle is the percentage of full speed that you require. You could, for example, convert the duty cycle of the signal to a voltage (PWM signal on for 0% of time gives 0 volts 50% gives 5 volts and 100% gives 10 volts) and use this to control an induction motor with a variable frequency inverter drive.”

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I think that you may be connected to the wrong outputs check GND and SPEN connection the 0-10v may not be PWM control just a 0-10v output other than that this board does not say it has PWM output

It may also work with Step/dir for the 0-10v output and not PWM

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SAMI81

Hello,

I have the same problem. I tried to 12V and 24V external power supply and both didn’t work to me! The breakout board I am using is C11. Could you please share your solution if you happened to solve your issue. I am expecting a bob faulty as well since everything else work fine.

Thanks,

---

Your spindle output from the C11 board is step/dir control for the 0-10v there manual is very good on how to set this up

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mactec54

Your spindle output from the C11 board is step/dir control for the 0-10v there manual is very good on how to set this up

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The 0-10V spindle wires are now connected to pin 8 and 14. I am able to turn on and off the spindle from Mach3 and was also able to control the speed, but the issue is, the maximum voltage coming out from pin 8&14 is no greater than 5V and with that being said, I am able to control spindle speed at half power. I also tried to change the potentiometer located at C11 board but so far there is no luck. The 0-10 V pins located at C11 board next to the 12V external power terminals are not producing any voltage! That’s why I think the board itself is faulty or maybe I am missing some setup on the software. I would appreciate any help.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SAMI81

The 0-10V spindle wires are now connected to pin 8 and 14. I am able to turn on and off the spindle from Mach3 and was also able to control the speed, but the issue is, the maximum voltage coming out from pin 8&14 is no greater than 5V and with that being said, I am able to control spindle speed at half power. I also tried to change the potentiometer located at C11 board but so far there is no luck. The 0-10 V pins located at C11 board next to the 12V external power terminals are not producing any voltage! That’s why I think the board itself is faulty or maybe I am missing some setup on the software. I would appreciate any help.

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Then what VFD drive do you have as some you can use 0-5v and 0-10v to control the RPM with just a Parameter change

There may be a jumper on the C11 that is not in the right place as well

Problem fixed! The 5V power supply to C11 board was not enough. I replaced it with bigger PSU and it did the job to me. Thanks for your replies. I will make new post and explain all my experience and the items needed so other people don’t waste time searching for minor details.