My 1100 is hit or miss when returning to zero.

Or after a tool change.

This is a brand new 1100 I’ve only had for a couple of months, and I haven’t had much time to spend learning all the ends and outs.

As I do spend more time cutting parts I am running into problems that have no straight forward answer. If something goes wrong every time you can figure it out, but my main problem is hit or miss.

The mill always seems to cut the first part just fine, BUT there is no telling what will happen after a tool change, or when you put another blank piece of material in the vise and hit start cycle for the second or fifth time.

I was having problems with a Z plunge after a tool change on what is going to be my main bread and butter part. I’m just learning G-code so I figured that was where the problem was and hoped to answers would come with time and experience. So I moved to cutting some one off Christmas gifts while studying G-code and cam programs. Everything went just fine but I was only cutting one piece and moving on.

Last night I engraved our old family business logo on a gift and it turned out great so I thought I’d make a few more while I had the program set up. I cut four in a row without a hitch but while returning to zero after the forth piece there was a audible thump and the bit stopped short of zero but the DRO read zero on all axis. I re-set everything and cut three more and thump the same thing happened again.

Now it occurred to me that I was sometimes hearing that thump when it went to tool change on that first part I was cutting. I didn’t know enough to know something was out of whack and parts were ruined and bits were broken as the Z plunged through my expensive parts. Also you’re not always (or shouldn’t need to be) right next to the mill to hear the thump.

No thump no problem as far as I know, I do know that when I heard the thump I did have problems. The DRO always stayed green and read zero on all axis.

The thump kind of sounds like the thump when to hit the stop but not nearly so pronounced.

Any ideas??? Thanks for any help.

Have you contacted Tormach.

Phil:)

Check your g-code for helical moves. That would be a G02 or G03 followed by an X, Y and Z coordinate. There's a bug in the version of Mach that Tormach uses. For some helical moves, it ignores feedrate and tries to move faster than the stepper can keep up. The result is a "Thump" sound from the mill and loss of position.

Talk to Daniel at Tormach. He found this problem with some code I was running. I suspect you're seeing the same issue.

Frederic

That sounds like my problem, I'll check the code when I get the chance. I'm out of town for a couple of days.

Thanks

The mill just ruined another part. Daniel at Tormach can't find a problem in the G-code or Bios.
Everyone is just guessing while I go broke. It’s frustrating to spend over $20,000.00 and not be able to produce anything.

i completely understand the frustration. how about trying to cut in the air until you get the problem figured out? seems like that is the logical thing to do instead of scrapping tools and parts.

I would be happy to test run your code on my Series 2 1100. If you strip out the tool descriptions, then your gcode would not be good for anything but air cutting. (Some people don't want to share g-code.)

I can run your code in the air and see if I lose position in the same way.

Pm me if you're interested and I'll give you my email address.

Frederic

Thanks Frederic, in the very beginning I said I can’t see how it could be the G-code when it only happens every once in a while. But ten people have offered to look at my code and ten people have tried it, ten people have said there is no problem with my code and then ALL ten said it couldn’t be the code anyway or it would happen every time.

I was sure that’s what I said.

I bummed the first code, and then wrote code with a MicroCarve program, and now I writing code with VCarve Pro. ALL of this code has been in use when the mill has screwed up. At this point I think we can safely say ITS NOT THE CODE.

I’m not yelling at you I appreciate the offer for help, but Tormach has looked at my code from two sources and said it’s not the code. Then they thought it might the BIOS, but it’s not the BIOS, now they want me up un-install everything and start over. I bought the deluxe package so I could get up and running in time to make some Christmas money. I have ten big orders and would have many more if I could take orders.

It would seem Tormach should know enough that they shouldn’t need to be guessing and having me do all the work by process of elimination.

Sniper, I have cut enough air to fuel a hurricane, air and plastic seems to be ALL I’m cutting.

I think you need somebody to mark your card:

When you bought a Tormach, instead of some alternative at 5 times the price, you were told (at least if you read the documentation) that Tormach would assist you in any maintenance and repair issues but that you would have to do the work yourself. This situation is a natural consequence of the low price that you were so keen to take advantage of.

Machines breakdown, it’s what they do best. Fault finding in complex, computer controlled, electromechanical devices by a process of elimination is standard practice, don’t ***** about it embrace it.

If the survival of your business plan depends on the continued functioning of a single machine then blame your business plan not the machine. What was your plan B for a breakdown of your mill, or was your plan based on an assumption of no breakdowns. Did you consider purchasing the maintenance kit.

If you are going to continue in your endeavour with your Tormach you need to develop some electromechanical skills, alternatively you may need to move further up the machine tool market and also pay for a 24hr a day on site maintenance agreement.

If you are unhappy ruining parts while you find the cause of the problem then cutting air is probably your only alternative, the choice is yours.

Slagging off Tormach is not the best way to ensure continued co-operation. It’s like telling you dentist you think he’s not very good at his job just before he puts the drill in your mouth.

Tormach will bend over backward to help you, as many here will also, but only if it is clear that you are trying to help yourself.

Clearly the problem is an unusual one and I doubt anybody is going to pull the answer out of their hat. So if you really want help here then the first thing to do would be to describe all the actions you have performed in trying to trace the problem and the results of those actions.

Phil:)

Is there a chance something got in a ballnut, causing the :lost steps"...just a thought.
Ron

Is there a chance something got into a ballnut, causing the "thunk" and lost steps?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by philbur

Slagging off Tormach is not the best way to ensure continued co-operation. It’s like telling you dentist you think he’s not very good at his job just before he puts the drill in your mouth.

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Vader is frustrated and needs to vent a but, which is totally understandable. But I don't see him insulting Tormach at any point in this thread. He did say that they were "just guessing," and that is true. But the thing to keep in perspective is that those guesses are coming from engineers who know these machines inside and out. So they're very educated guesses.

I went through some similar frustrations early on with my Tormach. I had an intermittent drawbar problem, a noisy Z axis, the helical mach3 bug, and a bad post processor in SprutCAM. (Don't use the v1.3 Alex Fix post, BTW. Upgrade to v1.5) I had just quit my job and thrown down a lot of money on the mill, and it was starting to look like I had made a big mistake.

It took time to sort all of that stuff out. Vader appears to have an even more complicated problem. So it may take a while to solve. My advice is to hang in there and diligently try all the troubleshooting steps that Tormach recommends. It's frustrating to have to diagnose. But Tormach's folks will get it sorted out.

Vader, a thought occurred to me. When the mill loses position, does it do so on all three axes? And do they all lose position by an equal amount? I read through this thread, and didn't see that information anywhere.

If all three axes are going out of position, then that would imply that the steppers and drivers are not the problem.

Also, where are you located? You may find that there are Tormach users near you who could help out.

Frederic

Thanks Frederic, The thumps seem totally random. The first few times it was the Z axis, then when returning to zero on a diagonal path (both X & Y) it thumped and stopped over the center of the part and read zero on all axis. Yesterday while engraving text it thumped on the third letter and plunged through the part.

These thumps started right out of the gate while cutting patterns in the bottom of some old plastic tubs, so I can’t see how anything could have gotten under the ballnut, but maybe from the factroy???

Having to tell ten people I can’t finish their Christmas gifts does have me a little miffed.

On a positive note I’m loving my new Vectric software, very user friendly.

My machine will "Thunk" and loose steps if I don't reboot my computer from time to time (at least every day is reccomended by Tormach). The losses are random and for a long time I just assumed it was operator error.

did you get the computer from tormach?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 300sniper

did you get the computer from tormach?

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yes it's all stock from Tormach. The reboots fixed the problem.

My computer came from Tormach as well, and I reboot everyday.

When my machine was new I had a similar problem. Losing steps in Z. It would only happen on a rapid move ( G0 ). I could re-create it by using the jog wheel running Z up and down at full speed, it would thump and be off. As it turned out the new machine was a bit tight. By slowing down my Z moves the problem went away. I have a series 1 machine and the rapid rate was 60ipm. I slowed it to 55ipm and all was well. After a few months of running I switched it back to 60 and it worked fine.

If you have the jog wheel you may want to try that. Or program some up and down Z moves at full rapid rate ( G0 ) If you can get it to thump that would indicate that your velocity on Z is to high for the mechanical stiffness of your new machine.

If it does lose steps try programing the same moves at 5 ipm less then rapid or 10 to find where it will work reliably.

Something to try

Scott

I had Z axis noise early on that went away with breakin.

Vader, if you run a program to break in the Z axis, put an empty tool holder in the spindle, and put a wood block on the table. Since you're losing steps, there's a very real possibility of crashing into the table. The wood block and empty tool holder will protect the machine from damage if this happens.

But since you're losing position on whatever axes are moving at the time of the thump, I don't think it's a mechanical issue. My first suspect is the break out board.