hy thunder, please, i have seen that you have an extra-sense when it comes to alignments; please, can you help me with this one ?
https://www.cnczone.com/forums/gener...lign-long.html
kindly :)
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hy thunder, please, i have seen that you have an extra-sense when it comes to alignments; please, can you help me with this one ?
https://www.cnczone.com/forums/gener...lign-long.html
kindly :)
I'll bet it's pricey, but well worth the money if you constantly deal with small tooling...
https://www.genswiss.com/perfect-zero.htm
Youtube video of system here...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZWsXB7KzfI
nice tool / thx :)
What you want to get is the picco ace holder I have linked here It requires a quarter turn to seat or realease the insert.
Alo in my opinion the Genswiss is not accurate enough. It is an interesting idea, but must not accurate enough to justify the purchase.
hy jreynolds :) that thing from iscar is good 2 clamp the tool, but is not assuring coaxiality; only a sleeve and a cnc do not assure coaxiality, but a measuring & adjustment method :)
somehow i also feel that; even if there is low tir when the device is clamped inside the guide bush ( and guide bushes are wear parts, etc ), also the camera has to be concentric with the od of the part, and i don't know how is possible to check thatQuote:
Also in my opinion the Genswiss is not accurate enough
however, i was wondering if there is a variant to home-build such gadget :) i am not up2date with latest stuff, but i believe that a small camera concentric with the housing + wireless transmission, is not hard to find these days / kindly :)
you could always blue the end of your stock and bring up the tool and scribe it with the tool then remove the stock and look at it. I have never really founf that the be a big issu.
hi 369, to eliminate doubts, it is required to check :Quote:
What are you talking about? The Genswiss system can center the tool within TENTHS RELIABLY
... the alignment of the genswiss system; the camera center is coaxial with the housing ? they are never coaxial, so is needed to measure the excentricity, so to determine the precission class
... the resolution; that's easy
2.33 tens, or 0.7tens ?Quote:
TENTHS RELIABLY
1.1 or 0.15 tens ?
also, what does those numbers represent ? and how to check these numbers ?
is not only about scribing the line, but also inspecting the scribbed line position with instruments with precision <0.01, like microscopes, etcQuote:
You say it's not accurate enough, yet go on giving advice of blueing the end of the bar and scribe a line?
this method takes longer than using the genswiss, but is possible to determine their precision pretty accurate
a microscope acurracy&alignment can be checked, so it can be trusted, but it requires time to use it; to shorten that time, is easier to put the microscope/camera inside the cnc, but this 'alternative' also needs to be checked for accuracy & alignment ... at this moment i don't know how is that possible, so to make the device trustfull / kindly :)
hello, it's been a while, but i believe i know how to check a genswiss system; idea behind it that any measuring device has to be checked to be within specs, and if it is ok, then you may use it without worriesQuote:
at this moment i don't know how is that possible, so to make the device trustfull
is not enough to have a measuring device delivered with a certificate : a certificate means that it was ok when it left the manufacturer; whatever there is, periodical inspections are recomanded :)
the question, about a geswiss, is if the housing is cilindrical ( that is an easy check ), and if camera is coaxial with the housing :
... take a vmc, trammed, with a centro in it's spindle
... put a collet chuck on the table, with the genswiss in it
... find the center of the genswiss, then repeat near the bottom, so to be sure that it is coaxial with the spindle
... remove the centro, and put a center drill inside the spindle; check it, so to have low tir
... turn on the genswiss system, and rotate the spindle; pulse handle z, so to get it in focus : this will give you some numbers, because the vmc axis has positioning accuracy / kindly :)
I think you're over thinking this. I have used boring bars down to .016" min bore with a .009" Ø neck. Other than sweeping the drill pocket to within like.0002" and triple checking the initial touch off, i just set small boring bars like regular, just with more attention to initial precision. The flat tip set screws do a pretty good job of finding center. Make sure you center the flats as much as possible initially. Then tighten the screw, loosen just a tiiiiny bit, wiggle, tighten, loosen, wiggle, tighten. This will get the tool holder centered on the flat pretty darn well.
If you watch the video for the Genswiss system, you will see that it accounts for runout of the guide bushing, so yes, it should give you true center within a couple tenths. (that is a couple ten thousandths of an inch or .005mm - plenty accurate, basically the same as a tool maker scope)
If you dont want to fork out big bucks for the genswiss system, you could use the "face bar, stop spindle, jog off, cutoff, measure nib, offset" method. This is slow-ish and annoying to do each time you replace the tool, but if you're breaking bars consistently its worth it.
If you offset a new tool minus a few thou, measure the first part then offset do you still have problems?
Do you think you are breaking the tool because X is off, Z is off, or you centerline is off (cutting above/below center)?
Also, can you program in some redundancy? If this is a known problem tool, can you lighten the DOC or feed so there is more strength in reserve to account for unexpected machining conditions? If you're right at the edge of stable with a perfect setup small issues become big issues quickly.
hy mcimes, thank you for your reply :) please, can you describe a bit more this method ? i don't understand / kindly :)Quote:
you could use the "face bar, stop spindle, jog off, cutoff, measure nib, offset" method. This is slow-ish and annoying to do each time you replace the tool, but if you're breaking bars consistently its worth it
This method can be used with any tool that is capable of facing the stock. (so it will not work with threading tools, backturns, etc)
- Offset Y- on the tool you wish to center a little bit, like 0.1 or 0.2mm (I'll call this T2)
- If the tool is not your main facing tool, face the bar with your Z0 tool (I'll call this T1), and touch off the other tool in Z (T2)
- Advance the stock a little bit (This could be .1 to .5mm depending on tool size. As long as its enough to clearly see a nib under a microscope, its ok)
- Face the bar with the tool you wish to set centerline on (T2)
- Stop the spindle. Do not move Z at all. Jog X across the face of the bar until the tool is clear of the bar. This will scribe a shallow line across the face of the bar.
- You will now have an intentional nipple left in the center of the part, since we offset T2 below center ~.1mm.
- Advance the stock a few mm so you can catch a small slug of bar
- Perform a cutoff and catch the end of the bar (wedge a basket under the guide bushing or something)
- Take the cutoff piece over to some sort of optical measuring device like a Toolmaker Scope or an OGP / Keyence type visual CMM. Align the scribe mark on the face left by the tool with one of the cross hairs on the Scope. Measure the diameter of the cutoff nib from the scribe line to the opposite side of the nib.
- Offset Y+ by half the diameter of the nib
- You should now be within a couple tenths of true center if you measure carefully