2 Attachment(s)
Connecting electronic probe to Mach3
Hi All - tried this thread in the Mach Forum with not much response so i'm putting it to you guys!
I just got a nice Chinese Reinshaw type kinematic probe for not a lot of money and I'd like to confirm if my understanding of how to wire it into Mach 3 won't fry anything ! ! !
A picture of its wiring is below. I'm fine with its voltage supply and likewise its earth - its the output i'm unsure about. Mach 3 input for 'normal' kinematic probes is a closed / NC circuit
until it bumps into something when it goes open / NO circuit thus triggering a stop. This probe is powered and will be outputting a voltage in its 'normal state? And when triggered the
output will go low as its connected to ground, as suggested by the diagram?
So question is - will the Mach3 input object to being 'fed' a voltage all the time until triggering occurs when it will go low (although not to ground potential?)
I'm planning of using a 5 or 7.5v power source if it makes a difference.
Attachment 483179
Re: Connecting electronic probe to Mach3
Well. You set Mach 3 up to read certain Input/outputs. The probe is an input. So you would wire the probe up to your break out board, as an input. You then go into Mach3 and configure the port as active high or low.
It's a little bit of a process, but not that bad.
It's just like wiring up a limit switch.
Re: Connecting electronic probe to Mach3
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kawazuki
Hi All - tried this thread in the Mach Forum with not much response so i'm putting it to you guys!
I just got a nice Chinese Reinshaw type kinematic probe for not a lot of money and I'd like to confirm if my understanding of how to wire it into Mach 3 won't fry anything ! ! !
A picture of its wiring is below. I'm fine with its voltage supply and likewise its earth - its the output i'm unsure about. Mach 3 input for 'normal' kinematic probes is a closed / NC circuit
until it bumps into something when it goes open / NO circuit thus triggering a stop. This probe is powered and will be outputting a voltage in its 'normal state? And when triggered the
output will go low as its connected to ground, as suggested by the diagram?
So question is - will the Mach3 input object to being 'fed' a voltage all the time until triggering occurs when it will go low (although not to ground potential?)
I'm planning of using a 5 or 7.5v power source if it makes a difference.
Hi,
You need to power it off a voltage compatible with the breakout board you are connecting it to. If it is a 5v non isolated input, then you need to power the probe of 5V. Otherwise you could damage the breakout board if you feed it with 7.5V.
Assuming the circuit below is accurate, the probe is a N/O (normally open) probe. When active the input will be at 0V.
This is not preferable as Mach3 won’t know if the probe is connected or not. With a N/C type probe, if it is not plugged in or a wire breaks, Mach3 will see the input as active and won’t start to run a probing routine.
With a N/O Probe switch, Mach3 will not know the probe is not plugged in, start the probe routine and crash the probe.
Cheers,
Peter
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Re: Connecting electronic probe to Mach3
Quote:
Originally Posted by
phomann
Hi,
You need to power it off a voltage compatible with the breakout board you are connecting it to. If it is a 5v non isolated input, then you need to power the probe of 5V. Otherwise you could damage the breakout board if you feed it with 7.5V.
Assuming the circuit below is accurate, the probe is a N/O (normally open) probe. When active the input will be at 0V.
This is not preferable as Mach3 won’t know if the probe is connected or not. With a N/C type probe, if it is not plugged in or a wire breaks, Mach3 will see the input as active and won’t start to run a probing routine.
With a N/O Probe switch, Mach3 will not know the probe is not plugged in, start the probe routine and crash the probe.
I don't have a breakout board - I use a Gecko G540 ie. PC, parallel cable, parallel port on G540, output to steppers. Gecko is fed from 48v / 11A PSU.
Your comments re NO / NC don't make sense to me as looking at the diagram the output is connected to supply via resistor (current limiting I guess?) so always sees some + volts when connected.
When the switch is triggered ie. switch makes the output is connected to ground so goes low?
I realise most kinetic type probes function as NC (normally closed) devices and breaking that circuit triggers a stop or a surface interruption - ie. they loop from ground through the probe and back
to PC / Mach3 via an input looking for a ground / low signal if set to active low.
Surely with your explanation of Mach3 when its set active low, it remains functional till it sees a low condition ie open circuit - similar to limit / homing switches, all connected in series with input connected
to ground via switches so in a 'high' condition. Only when circuit is broken, does it change to 'Low' and become active? BTW I really hate electronic Logic methodology's ! ! !
For all I know, If I connect the ground wire to ground ie. Gecko grnd. and the signal to probe input on parallel port it will act as a 'simple kinetic' probe - I just won't have the 'posh light show' But I'd still
like to know about possibility of frying the G540 if the probe is powered and not 'dumb' ?
Re: Connecting electronic probe to Mach3
I just got a nice Chinese Reinshaw type kinematic probe for not a lot of money and I'd like to confirm if my understanding of how to wire it into Mach 3 won't fry anything ! ! !
A picture of its wiring is below.I'm fine with its voltage supply and likewise its earth - its the output i'm unsure about. Mach 3 input for 'normal' kinematic probes is a closed NC circuit.
This probe is powered and will be outputting a voltage in its 'normal state? And when triggered the
output will go low as its connected to ground, as suggested by the diagram.
Gordon Bullard & Company
Re: Connecting electronic probe to Mach3
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kawazuki
I don't have a breakout board - I use a Gecko G540 ie. PC, parallel cable, parallel port on G540, output to steppers. Gecko is fed from 48v / 11A PSU.
Your comments re NO / NC don't make sense to me as looking at the diagram the output is connected to supply via resistor (current limiting I guess?) so always sees some + volts when connected.
When the switch is triggered ie. switch makes the output is connected to ground so goes low?
I realise most kinetic type probes function as NC (normally closed) devices and breaking that circuit triggers a stop or a surface interruption - ie. they loop from ground through the probe and back
to PC / Mach3 via an input looking for a ground / low signal if set to active low.
Surely with your explanation of Mach3 when its set active low, it remains functional till it sees a low condition ie open circuit - similar to limit / homing switches, all connected in series with input connected
to ground via switches so in a 'high' condition. Only when circuit is broken, does it change to 'Low' and become active? BTW I really hate electronic Logic methodology's ! ! !
For all I know, If I connect the ground wire to ground ie. Gecko grnd. and the signal to probe input on parallel port it will act as a 'simple kinetic' probe - I just won't have the 'posh light show' But I'd still
like to know about possibility of frying the G540 if the probe is powered and not 'dumb' ?
Ok, to get your probe to work;
1. Get a small 12Vdc supply such as;
https://www.homanndesigns.com/index....roducts_id=245
2. Connect the 12V supply 0V output to the G540 power supply 0V.
3. Connect the 12V supply +ve output to probe +ve supply line
4. Connect the probe 0V line to the G540 power supply 0V
5. Connect the probe output to one of the four G540 input lines.
Let me know if it is not clear?
Cheers,
Peter
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Re: Connecting electronic probe to Mach3
Here is a schematic of the explanation above.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...8970b6de45.jpg
Cheers
Peter
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Re: Connecting electronic probe to Mach3
This diagram shows how the probe actives the G540’s input opto-isolator
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...4b1893d661.jpg
Cheers
Peter
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Re: Connecting electronic probe to Mach3
That's basically what I was planning to do (although with a 5v supply). Your last diagram indicates that the G540 does have a optical 'disconnect' on the inputs
so isolating the sensor voltage from the board - that is essentially what I was worried about. I note that you indicate the G540 has 12v internally to the opto isolator
- is this why you've shown a 12v PSU for probe? I just looked at a G540 circuit schematic and it does appear the control electronics are using 12v - so will 5v powering
the probe cause an issue?
Thank you! :cheers:
Re: Connecting electronic probe to Mach3
UPDATE : I just couldn't wait LOL! So I used a 12v PSU, hooked everything up as Peter noted and . . . . . . . . it works fine, another tool in the arsenal.
Just have to a) get to grips with probing routine - it takes off at a hell of a rate! and b) dedicate a collet or holder to it full time to have a half a chance to retain a degree of concentricity & tip accuracy. ;)
Re: Connecting electronic probe to Mach3
so it works as it should be, no issue NO/NC anymore ... everybody can use them w/no problema ...
Re: Connecting electronic probe to Mach3
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kawazuki
That's basically what I was planning to do (although with a 5v supply). Your last diagram indicates that the G540 does have a optical 'disconnect' on the inputs
so isolating the sensor voltage from the board - that is essentially what I was worried about. I note that you indicate the G540 has 12v internally to the opto isolator
- is this why you've shown a 12v PSU for probe? I just looked at a G540 circuit schematic and it does appear the control electronics are using 12v - so will 5v powering
the probe cause an issue?
Thank you! :cheers:
No, it’s unlikely to work reliably with 5v when connected to the G540.
The issue is that current will drain through the input’s opto led on the G540 to the 5v supply.
If enough current flows from the G540’s internal 12v supply to the 5v supply the input could be activated even when the probe is off.
Cheers
Peter.
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Re: Connecting electronic probe to Mach3
Quote:
Originally Posted by
asuratman
so it works as it should be, no issue NO/NC anymore ... everybody can use them w/no problema ...
The problem you will have with the N/O probe is that Mach3 won’t warn you if the probe isn’t plugged in when you execute a probe routine.
It won’t be a problem until it is. [emoji3]
Cheers
Peter.
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Re: Connecting electronic probe to Mach3
Quote:
The problem you will have with the N/O probe is that Mach3 won’t warn you if the probe isn’t plugged in when you execute a probe routine.
noted.
so which program to run the NO probe ? crafty cnc ... or charlie sharsfield ... will be ok ?
Re: Connecting electronic probe to Mach3
Quote:
Originally Posted by
asuratman
noted.
so which program to run the NO probe ? crafty cnc ... or charlie sharsfield ... will be ok ?
Hi,
You can use your N/O probe with any CNC software, even Mach3.
My recommendation is that it a lot safer to use a N/C probe as the software will warn you if it is not plugged in when you go to run a probing routine.
Cheers
Peter
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Re: Connecting electronic probe to Mach3
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kawazuki
UPDATE : I just couldn't wait LOL! So I used a 12v PSU, hooked everything up as Peter noted and . . . . . . . . it works fine, another tool in the arsenal.
Just have to a) get to grips with probing routine - it takes off at a hell of a rate! and b) dedicate a collet or holder to it full time to have a half a chance to retain a degree of concentricity & tip accuracy. ;)
So much for working as intended - yes, the stylus movement provoked the internal LED's to change from Green to Red when touched, & in Mach3 diagnostics it showed a trigger event BUT
first test probing trial, it rapid'd straight down into the test object, bent the stylus like a banana and snapped off the plastic tip of the stylus holder - Grrrr ! ! ! No attempt to stop on touching anything - double Grrrr !
I took it all apart and plastic tip was easily superglued, straightened the stylus (it'll do for now - high precision, it is not LOL) and inside its pretty well made - basic kinematic three legged probe with some active
electronics - which seem to do squat diddly from above experience ! So, I'm junking the electronics and replacing them with simplified version PCB, it'll have ground connection, around the connected / bridged balls
and back out to a Mach3 input with an active low on trigger - just like my homing / limit switches - they stop instantly !
That's all for now - got some PCB cutting to do, wiring and soldering then give it another go !
Re: Connecting electronic probe to Mach3
This probe comes in 2 versions: NC or NO.
The NO version uses a npn (s8050) output transistor and the NC uses a pnp transistor. Perhaps (??) version NC or NO relate to the transistor state. But NOT the probe output signal state.
The “NO” version acts as a closed switch in the in the UN-triggered position (green LED on). And voltage of the signal equals voltage of supply (Vcc). Trigger the probe (red LED on) , signal voltage goes low.
The probe circuit operates on 5v (has 78105 volt reg), zener diode , red/green LED, S8050 npn trans, some resistors and the mystery chip FMD 830 krw.
Test the probe using a voltage meter between signal wire and ground. Then see if digitize LED (oem code 825) corresponds correctly to the probing routine requirement.
All probes have to be calibrated before use. My 2mm probe ball tip has a effective diameter of 1.88mm.
Which I enter into my probing program.
In my case, I wanted this “NO” probe to be true open switch in the not-triggered state. In order to match my simple z axis height probe. This allows same mach setting for both probes.
I used a MOS FET relay module to invert the probe signal voltage to the BB. After adding relay, re calibrated probe, no change in effective tip diameter.
mike
Re: Connecting electronic probe to Mach3
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kawazuki
So much for working as intended - yes, the stylus movement provoked the internal LED's to change from Green to Red when touched, & in Mach3 diagnostics it showed a trigger event BUT
first test probing trial, it rapid'd straight down into the test object, bent the stylus like a banana and snapped off the plastic tip of the stylus holder - Grrrr ! ! ! No attempt to stop on touching anything - double Grrrr !
I took it all apart and plastic tip was easily superglued, straightened the stylus (it'll do for now - high precision, it is not LOL) and inside its pretty well made - basic kinematic three legged probe with some active
electronics - which seem to do squat diddly from above experience ! So, I'm junking the electronics and replacing them with simplified version PCB, it'll have ground connection, around the connected / bridged balls
and back out to a Mach3 input with an active low on trigger - just like my homing / limit switches - they stop instantly !
That's all for now - got some PCB cutting to do, wiring and soldering then give it another go !
If Mach3 shows a led against its input, then the probe is probably working electrically.
My guess is that it was in the process of a rapid movement to the probe start position. That is it hadn’t even started the probing routine yet.
Probably too late now, but check what the tool height offset you have for the tool. Also what is the probe start position offset.
Also, check the probing routines. I seen some where the routines are in imperial. And don’t change to metric when a G21 is issued, causing catastrophic results.
Cheers
Peter
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