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Hello all, I have been a longtime fan but new to posting. I recently got a deal I couldn't pass up on a DM4500. The only problem is that the previous owner lost the Manuals as well as the machine sat in storage for a few years which out lived the battery. I am hoping someone here has PDF's of the manuals and or a Parameter file they could send me. I tried the manufacturer but they are very proud of the 22 year old info so I am hoping someone here can help me out.
Thank you in advanced
-Josh
I know its an old thread but did you ever find a manual? I'm getting the same machine and can't find anything online.
If I'm not mistaken, the machine is driven by a Mitsubishi M3 control. Subscribe to the MEAU website and you can download all of the manuals from them. There are three of them. The Dyna Mechtronics manuals isn't, frankly, nearly as important but is still nice to have if you've got a running machine. I have a DM4400m, and much of the info might be beneficial, but I'd try to find the 4500 version first. The DM4500 manual will have the wiring schematic and the parts listing, which can help, but Dyna went bust years ago so it isn't as though you can order parts from them.
Parameter wise, most of this is written to EEPROM. SO DO NOT MESS WITH THE MACHINE UNTIL YOU HAVE TAKE A PARAMETER DUMP!!!!! You very well may have everything sitting there right now and you just need to reinitialize the RAM. Let's put it this way.... Even if the machine doesn't have the parameters anymore, there is no harm in downloading the params to a computer before you start wiping things out!
I have the parameters and manuals for a Dyna DM4800, but not the 4500. You could probably start with the parameters I have and figure out the differences you'd have for the 4500 - the main differences are going to be in the axes home position settings (specifically the Z axis home position settings which will relate to your tool change position as well), which not only vary from model to model, but machine to machine. Because I've completely disassembled my machine and am slowly putting it back together, some of the parameters won't even be right for my machine anymore.
Also there may be differences with your toolchanger routines - I know (from MrMetric) that the DM4400 had some kind of Dyna proprietary control board between the Mitsu controller and the toolchanger, vs on the DM4800, everything to do with the tool changer is directly connected to the Mitsubishi controller - there's no intermediate Dyna board in between them. I have no idea how the toolchanger is setup on the DM4500 - is there a Dyna board in there? Did they just connect everything directly to the Mitsubishi controller like they did on the DM4800?
Send me a PM, and I'll send you a link to a folder on my personal Nextcloud where I have scanned PDFs all the Dyna manuals I have for my machine, including the parameter sheet that's supposedly for my machine (my machine kind of has 2 different serial numbers written on it, and I never even checked if either of those numbers actually matches the S/N written on the parameter sheet I have), as well as the some of the relevant mitsubishi manuals for the M3 controls. You can go through the Mitsubishi manual with the parameter descriptions, and the parameter sheet for the DM4800 in parallel, and easily figure out which parameters should be different for your machine.
You know... I really hate it when you read a post you wrote and cringe.... I should proof these things better when I submit something because my English is horrible in them. Oh well, at least the content is correct!
Yes, the tool changer is likely going to be your biggest challenge if the machine has been OFF for a while. As hwgasdfasdf mentioned, Dyna implemented tool changers in different ways. My DM4400m has a custom Dyna board that has its own CPU in it. That board does most of the heavy lifting, so there isn't a whole lot in the PLC. His machine has the logic built into the PLC, I assume, because there is no custom board (and that is where you would customize the control to a physical machine. Every M3 PLC I've seen on the web is comprised of EPROMs, so you probably have the majority of the customization in that. However, Mitsubishi did have the ability, I believe to have a RAM based PLC that would need to initialize. In the remote chance you have one of those, you'd be kind of screwed because you'd need that on a disk or something. But all our machines were built by the same company, during the same timeframe, so I doubt you have that.
The next caveat here is that my machine has a tool changer macro that is required to trigger the tool change. That is not true for all M3 installations, however, and I suspect it is not true on the DM4800. The significance here is that the macros are in a section of battery backed up RAM, not EPROM. Therefore, when the battery goes dead (and don't ask how long that is.... on a good stock battery it was probably a few months, but that would be a GOOD battery... you might have minutes or days... I'd just assume it is dead) you lose the macro. The good news is that my DM4400m manual actually has the macro provided, so Dyna probably had a practice of including the info in their documentation. And, even without the documentation, I suspect the macros might be similar (but that is definitely more risky than having a known entity). Finally, a macro might not be required. If the changer is all done in PLC then you could be set; I've seen that in at least one M3 installation.
Other than the macro side of things, there are a ton of parameters. As hwgasdfasdf mentioned, it is probably possible to reverse engineer a lot of these, although a better approach would be to have the Dyna manual because they provided all of that. It would be a pain to manually put in (well, you can fake it on a computer then upload) but don't discount Mitsubishi... They may well have a standard list too for the machine. Anyhow, the parameters are written into EEPROM (96% sure of this), so they should survive a complete battery loss. BUT, they won't survive you going in there and randomly setting values "just to see what will happen", hence the reason that I'm suggesting you STOP any experimentation on parameters UNTIL you get a back of what you have in there now.
hwgasdfasdf and I have worked very hard at trying to figure out these machines, and we've got most of what you are looking for. So, at least you are in good shape there. His distribution via shares is better than mine, and he'll point you to that, so you are on your way. Feel free to PM me too, and I'll be happy to share my email address here. I only ask one thing in return... If there is any learning that is super relevant, please post that info here. I'm a strong believer in trying to build up a knowledge base here so that someone can self help. We all could be run over by a bus and take the knowledge with us otherwise.
Thanks for the offer on the manuals. I tried to send you a PM but it said your account doesn't allow them. I'm still waiting to hear if the guy I am getting the machine from has a copy of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMetric
goldenfab: I'm a little baffled.... I looked at my settings and it says that I accept PMs. I've also gotten them from people in the past, so it doesn't make sense that you are not able to do it. Can you try again?
Well that's because I'm a total goof. I meant to say I sent tried to send hwgasdfasdf a PM. Anyways I sure am anxious to get into this machine. Its a little ways away and the rigger is coordinating moving a machine for someone in the area so if it works out it should save me some expense, but it sure is dragging on.
Oh that hwgasdfasdf dude.... he always gets the attention! :-) For the record, though, he is a top notch guy with a plethora of great ideas.
I'm still waiting for delivery of my machine. Long story short I have a Fadal coming too and am going to have them rigged at the same time.
Does anyone have any info on the power requirements and recommended breaker size? I got a 25hp rotary phase converter. I haven't checked my actual single phase voltage here but I think its 240v. From what I could find the machine is 220v. Wondering if the machine has transformer with different taps or if I'm going to need a step down transformer or something. Would be nice to know now so I get a head start getting parts to get it wired in.
ps. MrMetric, was holding out to touch base with you when I actually get my machine.